Anyone noticed that Rohde & Schwarz is blocking firmware informations / updates?

[Harry_22]

I didn’t pass face control.
And this is after more than 15 years of dedicated work in the company.
It's very disappointing.

But tomorrow I’ll still go do maintenance to support my favorite company!

[skander36]

I saw that on the end of the month (29Nov.-2Dec) is a planned maintenance. Maybe after that the things will go better.

[mahi]

I wanted to test something on my Rohde & Schwarz HMP4040 for user kaffine in Quad output bench power supply, but thanks to the new bullshit policy I can't download the required software anymore...

Is there anyone who can download the latest version of R&S HMExplorer and put it online for download? Thank you! → A friendly forum member sent me the installer. Thank you!

[eleguy]

We got denied as well. Sent just a long long (super sarcastic) message asking if they see only big players as their customers or if this is just some sort of "misunderstanding".

Lets see what they respond...

[eleguy]

It's funny how quickly my future plans for something from the MXO series vanished.

Yep, same here...

[jjoonathan]

Wait, are they actually rejecting people after verifying identity or is the verification process just slow and slightly broken? Verification still sucks (and always will), but the problems described earlier in the thread are no longer happening for me. After verification, I am not locked out of manuals or downloads and they do not require separate permissions for each product. Once I log in, the site is useful again. It is no longer "broken verification, broken website" but "slow verification, working website." Which isn't great, but it's more or less industry standard so  .

What was the wording of the rejection? Just "can't verify business email"? If so, don't lose hope, that's what they said to me at first but they came around.

[eleguy]

We got rejected after they had "verified" our information. In their (copy/paste apparently) reply they say

"We regret to inform you that, based on the recent profile assignment, access to the requested service "Product Downloads" is not possible at this time"

The list of valid Finnish companies seems to be provided by Dun & Bradstreet. Our company was not listed but some bigger were. After typing some characters into the field n-times system offered me a way to manually type in company name and so. Then I got the email verification link which succeeded. After than one can login but does not see downloads etc.

But let's see what they respond from their local office. I let you know...

[gslick]

What was the wording of the rejection? Just "can't verify business email"? If so, don't lose hope, that's what they said to me at first but they came around.

Verifying that a .com email address used for the registration is a valid email address by itself does not appear to be sufficient.

I received the same rejection notice as in the previous reply to my registered .com email address:

We regret to inform you that, based on the recent profile assignment, access to the requested service "Product Downloads" is not possible at this time. We appreciate your interest and effort.

From the Dun & Bradstreet logo on the registration page, maybe they are using their database of businesses to screen the company name used for registration against legitimate company names in the database as a step beyond just verifying that the registered .com email address doesn't just bounce.

As someone that is now retired and no longer working for a big company, I doubt that trying to plead my case to a human for access would go anywhere.

[jjoonathan]

Yeah, they weren't impressed by the email but they accepted the D&B number I gave them. I put my personal company into Dun & Bradstreet the other year for unrelated reasons, perhaps that is why it went smoother for me. D&B wanted to see tax forms and a phone number that they could call and have someone actually pick up (of course my spam filter blocked them the first time). This was for USA, I don't know if it works the same way everywhere.

Requiring a business credit history to access downloads seems a bit much. Hopefully it's just a result of copying an account creation process optimized for sales on credit, but I suppose we'll see if it sticks around.

[pope]

At least they appreciate your interest and effort.

[MarkL]

...
From the Dun & Bradstreet logo on the registration page, maybe they are using their database of businesses to screen the company name used for registration against legitimate company names in the database as a step beyond just verifying that the registered .com email address doesn't just bounce.
...

My company has a .com and is a registered LLC in the US.  I just checked and the company appears in D&B.  A few weeks ago my Rohde & Schwarz registration was cancelled and then reactivated after being "verified" in a day or so.

After being a long-time HPAK customer, I am seriously regretting our first investment of $35k into R&S gear, having been duly impressed with the MXO4/5.  That purchase is nothing to them, I know, but it will end there for us.  I won't play these games not knowing if next year maybe we'll be categorized as too small, or maybe insufficient financial information.  And do I dare buy a multi-year service contract for equipment purchased not knowing if they will honor it.

I hope they can at least finish the features on that scope product line and fix a few bugs (to be reported) before they arbitrarily cut me off again.  My mistake for buying futures.  Sometimes I don't learn.

[skander36]

I don't think that any criteria is about the size of the company, acquisitions from R&S, service contracts or financial information's.
My company under the R&S account was registered has nothing from this list (is a small one, almost insignificant, no service contracts, no financial info) so nothing that can favor access.
I think that their system is under pressure to meet some compliancy with new regulations. Will see how they will deal with that in the near future.

[Harry_22]

...deleted.
Sorry for non-constructive dialog.

[Harry_22]

Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry.  It is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward.  Because of so many registrations (and how quickly this happened), there have been some hiccups, but we're working to make it easier/better - hopefully we can ease some of the initial restrictions as we learn more.

In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that (we're consumers too - and get frustrated at things like this as well).

In the meantime - if you're a personal account and having trouble getting registered (while we figure out these new requirements), please don't hesitate to reach out to a partner - they are there to help and often have flexibility we do not. 

-Rich

Dear Rich,

I realized that people who care about what is happening in the company have gathered here.

There are many long-standing Сustomers, of whom the company is so proud and who are unhappy with its new policy.

Here only you represent Rohde&Schwarz and therefore our main hope for the company's feedback.
Now it is very important which side you will take in relation to the Customer and protect his right to be independent and to receive the necessary information.

Please help make the company better!

[mhsprang]

Today I tried to see if new firmware was available for my NGE103B power supply. I do have a registered account at R&S but I now needed to click a button to have my account verified before getting access to "premium content". The verification was rejected.

So, if this is a website problem, it is outrageous that this problem has persisted for over a month. If this is a policy problem, it is outrageous not to inform the existing customers of this policy change. I am left in the dark about why they rejected the verification. I am a business customer with a valid business e-mail address (certificates an all) and a website, doing business for over 25 years.

I e-mailed Paul Denisowski about this. Hopefully I can shed some light on this.

[jjoonathan]

Did you try customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com ? They gave me a few sharepoint links before I convinced them to activate my account.

[rf-messkopf]

No progress on that matter, I still cannot log in, and I didn't receive a rejection email.

I talked to a R&S representative at their booth at the electronica fair in Munich in November. After explaining that I was blocked from downloads, they said that that problem could be solved and I shouldn't worry, and that they understood the concerns. They took my contact details and later I received a phone call from a salesperson of their Hamburg branch (imagine, on my evil private number). After exchanging some emails (over my evil private address) it was pointed out that for manuals and firmware I should go through a dealer, but that they are happy to help with any technical inquiries. I made clear that I'm not going to buy any more R&S gear under these conditions.

I also talked to some distributors. They said that they are happy to help with downloads but cannot do anything about the situation, obviously. I recommended that they clearly state the problem to R&S, as it is also hindering their sales. No idea if they did.

[2N3055]

I would point out to this wikipedia page..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohde_%26_Schwarz

Read all the way to the bottom of the page..
It explains everything.
R&S is pretty much a very large military/government contractor and to be that, they have to be very careful about some things and obey by the rules, very strictly.
And since that is their core business, that takes priority.

So basically, like Rich said, without going into why, they are not happy to do this to small/private companies and individuals, but it is a cost of doing "that other" business, that is real breadwinner...

And this change is here to stay. And get even more strict with time, by the looks of the political situation now...

[mawyatt]

That's a good point and likely why Keysight has taken their stance wrt the small folks. Add to this the ability of clever adversaries to "reconfigure" standard test equipment into something that has military use/significance and the Export Restriction Regulations begin to make sense.

Here in USA with the new administrations threats of high restrictive tariffs, makes one wonder if now is the time to acquire new foreign TE

Not good for us little folks, but likely will be the way of the future

Best

[artag]

Export restrictions rarely make sense. The people who want them will get them through 3rd parties whether you like it or not, and you'll encourage the development of the restricted goods by other vendors.  They're a way to satisfy local political agitation, not a way to keep technology from your enemies.

Look at thermal cameras, severely restricted under ITAR  to stop me in the UK buying Flir cameras capable of better than 15 frames per second. Now I can get 25 frames per second cameras extremely cheap from china. No need for Flir.

 I don't know the actual restrictions or how they've changed over the last few years but I don't see how that's benefited anyone in America, least of all the military.

[2N3055]

That's a good point and likely why Keysight has taken their stance wrt the small folks. Add to this the ability of clever adversaries to "reconfigure" standard test equipment into something that has military use/significance and the Export Restriction Regulations begin to make sense.

Here in USA with the new administrations threats of high restrictive tariffs, makes one wonder if now is the time to acquire new foreign TE

Not good for us little folks, but likely will be the way of the future

Best

My thinking is that even with 100% tariffs, a Siglent scope is still going to be fraction of the price of comparable Keysight scope. Problem arises only it they outright ban imports completely.  But if things get heated that much, I think there will be bigger problems to worry about.....

[ebastler]

R&S is pretty much a very large military/government contractor and to be that, they have to be very careful about some things and obey by the rules, very strictly.
And since that is their core business, that takes priority.

So basically, like Rich said, without going into why, they are not happy to do this to small/private companies and individuals, but it is a cost of doing "that other" business, that is real breadwinner...

And this change is here to stay. And get even more strict with time, by the looks of the political situation now...

I don't buy it that they have to stop supporting private customers for whatever compliance reasons. That does not make sense as long as they still sell products to individuals -- which they do, via distributors. Some products for military use have always been restricted, I'm sure, and will continue to be; that's not what is behind the current initiative.

This seems much more like a "too much support cost for too little gain" situation, i.e. a pure cost reduction play. In which case I cannot understand why they restrict access to the download portal and make end users jump through hoops to ultimately obtain the same information via distributors. I could understand a "individuals can't talk to our support staff, that takes too much resources" policy. But if a well-maintained document portal is already online for commercial customers, why not let other customers access it?

[2N3055]

Export restrictions rarely make sense. The people who want them will get them through 3rd parties whether you like it or not, and you'll encourage the development of the restricted goods by other vendors.  They're a way to satisfy local political agitation, not a way to keep technology from your enemies.

Look at thermal cameras, severely restricted under ITAR  to stop me in the UK buying Flir cameras capable of better than 15 frames per second. Now I can get 25 frames per second cameras extremely cheap from china. No need for Flir.

 I don't know the actual restrictions or how they've changed over the last few years but I don't see how that's benefited anyone in America, least of all the military.

Nobody thinks it works. It is just that we need to obey the rules we are imposed upon by countries we live in.
In reality, if you. for example, restrict access in USA to, say, affordable scopes, that will be good business for Keysight but bad for rest of electronics and other industries that use scopes. Apply that logic for all the tools, energy... They will have much larger cost of doing business and they might go out of business or will be severely limited in capabilities.

[2N3055]

R&S is pretty much a very large military/government contractor and to be that, they have to be very careful about some things and obey by the rules, very strictly.
And since that is their core business, that takes priority.

So basically, like Rich said, without going into why, they are not happy to do this to small/private companies and individuals, but it is a cost of doing "that other" business, that is real breadwinner...

And this change is here to stay. And get even more strict with time, by the looks of the political situation now...

I don't buy it that they have to stop supporting private customers for whatever compliance reasons. That does not make sense as long as they still sell products to individuals -- which they do, via distributors. Some products for military use have always been restricted, I'm sure, and will continue to be; that's not what is behind the current initiative.

This seems much more like a "too much support cost for too little gain" situation, i.e. a pure cost reduction play. In which case I cannot understand why they restrict access to the download portal and make end users jump through hoops to ultimately obtain the same information via distributors. I could understand a "individuals can't talk to our support staff, that takes too much resources" policy. But if a well-maintained document portal is already online for commercial customers, why not let other customers access it?

Well, you can buy it or not, but that is definitely part of the reason.
And you are not buying it because you think like an engineer: when you are posed with a problem your instinct is to fix it, solve it. The problem.

Corporations are run by economists and lawyers.
They solve the problem by choosing what solution cost less (economist), and by shifting blame (lawyers).
So if small volume of business to certain market is threatening large profit margin market, they prioritize big, certain money in big chunks with long term contracts over what is basically consumer market with unsure outcomes.
And if fine cost less than solution, they are happy to pay fine and move on.
And don't worry, they will still sell to those "secondary markets", but now they have a distribution contract with some company that specializes in consumer and small business sales. They sign all kinds of security contracts with them, where that OTHER company GUARANTEES they will not sell to those people they are not supposed to. And deal with pesky GDPR or whatnot.

And funny enough, USA still considers encryption technology a controlled technology, and funny enough fact that R&S FW image is encrypted (to prevent decompiling) is enough to trigger export control from these dimwitted bureaucrats.
And since keeping track of what is and what is not OK to distribute is never ending and ever changing maze of rules worth of Kafka making a new book, they simplify.

With government, MIC, military, and large industrial contracts (that are mostly also companies that are also under same rules through their own customers) they do paperwork and sales directly.
Rest is practically outsourced to distributors, through contracts that put all the blame for goods ending up in "wrong hands" to distributors.

See, the goal is not to stop proliferation in "wrong hands". Goal is for somebody else to be guilty, if that happens, and for their hands to stay clean.

[eleguy]

After exchanging some emails (over my evil private address) it was pointed out that for manuals and firmware I should go through a dealer, but that they are happy to help with any technical inquiries.

Yes, right but how do I now even know when there is a new firmware available? Should I ask the distributor to distribute this half-secret information now and then?