Author Topic: Anyone noticed that Rohde & Schwarz is blocking firmware informations / updates?  (Read 30085 times)

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Offline tv84

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If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?

Courtesy? If he had said nothing, you would be here saying that not even "some kind words...".

"Preso por ter cão e preso por não ter." - portuguese expression
 
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Offline Furna

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That's not fair at all. He obviously enjoyed working with the hobbyist crowd. It's not his policy, or his choice what R&S decided to do. He just has to follow the new rules. 🤷

I did not expect Rich to change or bend the rules; he obviously can't. But I would have hoped that he can communicate here without that "we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small" blurb. If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?

So every Marketing person is not honest? I support KungFuJosh point: unfair comment.
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Offline ebastler

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If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?

Courtesy? If he had said nothing, you would be here saying that not even "some kind words...".
"Preso por ter cão e preso por não ter." - portuguese expression

Oh, come on. There are so many real and sincere statements he could have made:

"It was a business decision not everyone is happy with."
"Unfortunately we are forced to restrict this information for compliance reasons."
"We will give existing and potential individual customers full access to manuals and firmware via our authorized local distributors. A list of these distributors is online here:".

Any of these, and many more, would have been a courtesy in my book. But not his "we will not talk to you anymore, but rest assured that we value you". From the company who gobbled up Hameg, the European brand for hobbyist oscilloscopes.

So every Marketing person is not honest? I support KungFuJosh point: unfair comment.

Please don't twist the words in my mouth. He was not honest in making this particular comment, is what I wrote. I certainly stand by that.
 
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Offline Furna

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So every Marketing person is not honest? I support KungFuJosh point: unfair comment.

Please don't twist the words in my mouth. He was not honest in making this particular comment, is what I wrote. I certainly stand by that.

I was provoking you, as you provoked him.
I would then change the phrasing in "his Marketing skills could have been better in this specif occasion" followed by what you just wrote in your last post.
Not honest is unfair.
 :popcorn:
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Please don't twist the words in my mouth. He was not honest in making this particular comment, is what I wrote. I certainly stand by that.

Seriously? You can't say he wasn't honest. Why don't you try quoting everything he said, instead of cherry-picking the part that triggered you:

Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry.  It is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward.  Because of so many registrations (and how quickly this happened), there have been some hiccups, but we're working to make it easier/better - hopefully we can ease some of the initial restrictions as we learn more.

In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that (we're consumers too - and get frustrated at things like this as well).

In the meantime - if you're a personal account and having trouble getting registered (while we figure out these new requirements), please don't hesitate to reach out to a partner - they are there to help and often have flexibility we do not. 

-Rich
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Offline uliano

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The full quote is self contradictory. Honesty can’t be.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Like always, he needs to be carefull what to say, lawyers and all..

For those who are  confused, pay attention to use of word "we".
Who is "we"?
R&S part that made this decision, or people that spent last 20-30 years supporting these same clients... ?

I think his message was clear and honest. And explanatory enough.
Life is not mathematical formula. There is finesse.
In all our discourse, he always was on the side of R&S ( which is loyalty, a noble human trait, so rare nowadays), but never dishonest, or dismissive of any competition. Quite the contrary, he had healthy respect even for newcomers to market, and gave respect where respect was due. Newer a word was uttered that seemed like lie or deliberate misdirect.
In few occasions when he was wrong, he owned it.

That is my impression of a person. I don't know him personally, but that is what I got from what I know.
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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Offline tooki

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You mean, some customers have a big value and others have a small value to R&S?
Thanks for being honest about it.
That is not what he said.  ::)

I know. Sadly, he was not honest in his sales & marketing waffle.
I really don't think you can say that until we actually know what's going on.

But given that LeCroy did something similar, now R&S, and Keysight cutting off sales to consumers, it very much seems likely to me that there's some regulation that's forcing all these companies to do it. I would not be surprised if we see Tektronix following suit.

If we assume it is indeed some law that is forcing companies to restrict access to products and/or information, then a sales/marketing rep saying "we value our customers, large and small, and are not pleased by the situation" is eminently believable. People who work in sales/marketing tend to be people persons. (I have worked in sales, and have worked in marketing-adjacent industries, too.)

And having worked for a very large corporation (a certain "fruit company") before, in sales, I am absolutely familiar with being in the position of having to present and defend a situation to customers, even though I a) have no control over said situation, and b) don't agree with it. So don't be so quick to dismiss the sales/marketing person's statement as dishonesty.
 

Offline ebastler

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[...] it very much seems likely to me that there's some regulation that's forcing all these companies to do it.
[...] If we assume it is indeed some law that is forcing companies to restrict access to products and/or information,
[...]

Last time I checked, laws and regulations were public in most civilized countries. I am not buying into "some government agency is forcing them to do it, and stopping them from talking about the reasons" -- that's conspiracy BS. And if there are whatever liability concerns, warranty or other consumer rights implications, or just plain cost and overhead savings behind this, I don't see what stops R&S from explaining the reasons.

If people feel very strongly about the "dishonest" attribute, I'll settle for "insincere".  ::)
 

Offline Furna

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If people feel very strongly about the "dishonest" attribute, I'll settle for "insincere".  ::)

That sounds more acepptable even if it might not correspond to reality,
Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to fight a company policy.
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Offline ebastler

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Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to fight a company policy.

If you re-read my posts, you may find that I have exclusively talked about the communication, not about the policy itself. The policy sucks, but I don't blame individual R&S marketing people for its existence or expect them to change it. I do, however, expect them to explain it honestly sincerely.

Which, to be fair, Rich did a bit of -- thanks to Josh for the full quote. But glossing things over with the "we value you all" blurp makes it sound insincere to my ears.

Edit: I have probably replied too many times about this topic already. 'nuff said from my side.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 09:32:31 pm by ebastler »
 

Offline Furna

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Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to suggest R&S Marketing dept a better communicaton strategy :-)
Enough for everyone I guees.
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Offline tooki

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[...] it very much seems likely to me that there's some regulation that's forcing all these companies to do it.
[...] If we assume it is indeed some law that is forcing companies to restrict access to products and/or information,
[...]

Last time I checked, laws and regulations were public in most civilized countries. I am not buying into "some government agency is forcing them to do it, and stopping them from talking about the reasons" -- that's conspiracy BS. And if there are whatever liability concerns, warranty or other consumer rights implications, or just plain cost and overhead savings behind this, I don't see what stops R&S from explaining the reasons.
DO NOT put words in my mouth!!!

Nowhere did I say that the laws and regulations are secret, nor that the government has forced them to not talk about the law/regulation.

What I said is that the laws/regulations may restrict access to information. As in technical information. The law/regulation is not the “information” here.

(I will note that there are examples of secret government orders that prohibit disclosure of said order. That isn’t conspiracy theory, it’s established law in many countries. Look at public libraries and telecom/online service providers in USA and warrant canaries. I am not suggesting that is the case here, though we can’t rule it out 100%.)

Though I generally disagree with it,* many, many companies have policies of basically not explaining anything. And legally, they don’t owe it to us (unless part of a lawsuit, in which case it may be subpoenaed). It’s entirely possible, and IMHO likely, that export restrictions of some kind are the root cause here, but it’s up to the company to decide whether or not to explain what the cause is.


Also, do not underestimate the extent to which many companies apply those same principles within. Not only do higher-ups withhold information from customers, many withhold it from their own employees. When I worked at the “fruit stand” years ago, and people asked us “when’s the new [iProduct] coming out?”, I was able to answer in complete honesty “I have no idea, we find out the same time you do”, because that is exactly how it worked. A lot of people seem to think that everyone in a company is equally informed on everything, but that is far from the truth, especially in large ones. R&S isn’t the size of the “fruit company”, but it’s not a little family-owned small business, either. They have around 13,000 employees, which means many divisions and many layers of management. And since some of those divisions do stuff that is defense-adjacent, I’d be very surprised if there weren’t specific regulations in place that affect certain operations.

Another reason companies keep quiet is to make sure nobody accidentally makes a statement that has legal repercussions. That is one reason many companies give their employees specific phrases to use when answering certain questions, because answering the wrong way would create liability of some sort. (For example, that is why AppleCare is not an “extended warranty”, but a “protection plan”, because apparently calling it a warranty would have some legal repercussions. Don’t ask me what they are, as I don’t know, and I’m not a lawyer anyway.) It’s also why many companies funnel all press inquiries to dedicated spokespersons and prohibit employees from talking to the press without prior permission.  It’s also why many chain stores expressly prohibit employees (including store managers!) from posting any signage or documentation other than what is provided by corporate or required by law.


*I say “generally” and not “completely” because I have had enough customer- and user-facing work to experience firsthand how some people will take whatever totally reasonable explanation you give them and then twist your words and try to use it against you. It’s exhausting and time-consuming, and generally goes nowhere as their opinion is already formed and immutable, so I totally understand why many companies choose to just say nothing. Your own behavior in this thread actually kinda steps into that territory, as evidenced by you trying to twist my words into things they did not say.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2024, 11:09:24 am by tooki »
 

Offline gburdzin

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Over the weekend I tried to download the user manual for the NGM202 so that I could get a better idea of its features before potentially purchasing it.  So I ended up filling out the registration information, but then got a response that I needed "approval" for the download.   :wtf:  I've never experienced having to get approval for the download of a bloody user manual before.

And then the best part...Monday morning in my work email inbox..."Rejection of Your Request for Access".  Thanks R&S, I guess I won't be considering the NGM202 for purchase any longer.  :palm:
 
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Offline mhsprang

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@gburdzin: Farnell is one of their dealers and they have 16 documents for the NGM202 available for download, including the manual.
 
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Offline Hydron

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Can they be trusted to host the latest firmware and manual in a timely manner though?
 

Offline jjoonathan

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No.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Just updated the firmware on one of my R&S PSU's and had to register my company to get it. They asked for the company name which was searched for on the Dun & Bradstreet I think it was. Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?

It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
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Offline EEVblog

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.

If so, that's brutal. People will be getting thier firmware from a guy in an alley way in a trench coat.
 
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Online tautech

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.

If so, that's brutal. People will be getting thier firmware from a guy in an alley way in a trench coat.
Got all your Siglent stuff up to date ?
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.

If so, that's brutal. People will be getting thier firmware from a guy in an alley way in a trench coat.

That sounds like a fun side gig. 🤔



"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
Best Continuity Tester Ever
 
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Offline mhsprang

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Can they be trusted to host the latest firmware and manual in a timely manner though?
Why not? If they are appointed dealership and are responsible for delivering documentation and firmware, they might lose their dealership if they don't comply.
 

Offline mhsprang

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It's quite easy to get your company registered at D&B. I once went through that process to be able to supply products to the USCG.
 

Online tautech

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Can they be trusted to host the latest firmware and manual in a timely manner though?
Why not? If they are appointed dealership and are responsible for delivering documentation and firmware, they might lose their dealership if they don't comply.

Imagine the work that might add if you were a multi-brand dealer.  :scared:
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
 
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