Anyone noticed that Rohde & Schwarz is blocking firmware informations / updates?

[mhsprang]

I would at least reply that apparently you did meet the necessary requirements to purchase a device for €12.500. And ask them how you will now obtain firmware updates.

[mhsprang]

Which firmware version do you need? The latest on the R&S website is V1.700, dated 19 December 2021.

[Krotow]

Reply and point out this little gem from their website...

Yet still today their website says : "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".

Talking about hypocrisy... Still curious which kind of hobbyists and students might be their customer base. I think no lower than Bruce Wayne, because regular hobbyists and students earn way less to afford something from R&S. Mentioned FPL1003 cost more than my current car when it was new.

[egonotto]

Which firmware version do you need? The latest on the R&S website is V1.700, dated 19 December 2021.

Hello,

thanks, my RTA4000 has firmware 01.700. So it could be that I already have the latest firmware.

Best regards
egonotto

[mhsprang]

Hi Egonotto, Ah, bummer. I could have downloaded it for you though.

[egonotto]

Hello,


thank you, I have now received the user manual version 9. I probably also have the latest firmware 01.700.

Too bad Rohde & Schwarz didn't give it to me.

What I also noticed is that the noise values for the RTA4000 in the 2024 data sheet are worse than in the 2019 data sheet.
RMS noise floor at 1 MΩ (meas.)
1 mV/div 500 MHz 1 MOhm
old: 0.13 mV new: 0.17 mV
1 V/div 500 MHz 1 MOhm
old: 45.6 mV new: 60 mV

Best regards
egonotto

[hfleming]

Reply and point out this little gem from their website...

Yet still today their website says : "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".

that seems to keep on happening… way back in a largish company we went from lots of HP equipment because they deemed us not large enough for support to R&S because they still viewed us large enough to support. Now that I have a small lab at home, at least I still get support from some Chinese companies like Siglent… make of my statement what you will….

Talking about hypocrisy... Still curious which kind of hobbyists and students might be their customer base. I think no lower than Bruce Wayne, because regular hobbyists and students earn way less to afford something from R&S. Mentioned FPL1003 cost more than my current car when it was new.

[EEVblog]

Hello,
I can't get an updated manual or the latest firmware from Rohde & Schwarz for my RTA4000 purchased in 2019 for almost 12500 €.

They wrote me:
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements.
If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to Customer Support for assistance.
We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your interest.
Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hello,
I can't get an updated manual or the latest firmware from Rohde & Schwarz for my RTA4000 purchased in 2019 for almost 12500 €.

They wrote me:
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements.
If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to Customer Support for assistance.
We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your interest.
Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.

[Someone]

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.

Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.

[nctnico]

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.

Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

[KungFuJosh]

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.

[Someone]

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.

Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

your interpretation is failing, not mine.
Lets take a quote from that specifically linked page:

A business can be a consumer too. A product or service bought for business use is covered by consumer guarantees, when it meets at least one of the following conditions:

• it costs less than $100,000 including GST
• ... [other possible conditions]

My claim that business purchases are protected the same as consumers up to $$$ value, is pretty much exactly what the responsible authority says.

Not sure how much clearer it can be? Do love your dismissal with zero explanation, avoiding anyone possibly addressing your imagined point... do come back with some completely out of context "but but but I'm right" and we'll all have a laugh.

[mhsprang]

I think the problem is even simpler for R&S if they'd have to explain in a court of law why they think business customers have more rights to updates than private customers. Even if they say they let their dealers be responsible for that, if said dealers do no take that responsibility R&S have to step up to the plate.

[tooki]

Reply and point out this little gem from their website...

Yet still today their website says : "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".

that seems to keep on happening… way back in a largish company we went from lots of HP equipment because they deemed us not large enough for support to R&S because they still viewed us large enough to support. Now that I have a small lab at home, at least I still get support from some Chinese companies like Siglent… make of my statement what you will….

Talking about hypocrisy... Still curious which kind of hobbyists and students might be their customer base. I think no lower than Bruce Wayne, because regular hobbyists and students earn way less to afford something from R&S. Mentioned FPL1003 cost more than my current car when it was new.

Please learn how to use quoting correctly, and fix your reply above.

[nctnico]

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.

You are not going to win that semantic discussion in court for sure. It is possible that there is a list and/or clearer definition somewhere in the law and/or previous court cases which describes the exact meaning of items / products for personal or household use. Oscilloscopes and test equipment in general won't be among that.

[Sorama]

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.

You are not going to win that semantic discussion in court for sure. It is possible that there is a list and/or clearer definition somewhere in the law and/or previous court cases which describes the exact meaning of items / products for personal or household use. Oscilloscopes and test equipment in general won't be among that.

Maybe test equipment is not yet among it, I would not be so sure a judge nowadays does not make it part of it.
There is a general tendancy to protect ‘the customer’.

[Someone]

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.

You are not going to win that semantic discussion in court for sure. It is possible that there is a list and/or clearer definition somewhere in the law and/or previous court cases which describes the exact meaning of items / products for personal or household use. Oscilloscopes and test equipment in general won't be among that.

Perhaps the sky is green? or perhaps you could actually read the legislation you think might possibly support your claim....
https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2004A00109/latest/text/4

Meaning of consumer
Acquiring goods as a consumer
 (1) A person is taken to have acquired particular goods as a consumer if, and only if:
 (a) the amount paid or payable for the goods, as worked out under subsections (4) to (9), did not exceed:
 (i) $40,000; or
 (ii) if a greater amount is prescribed for the purposes of this paragraph—that greater amount; or
 (b) the goods were of a kind ordinarily acquired for personal, domestic or household use or consumption; or
 (c) the goods consisted of a vehicle or trailer acquired for use principally in the transport of goods on public roads.
 (2) However, subsection (1) does not apply if the person acquired the goods, or held himself or herself out as acquiring the goods:
 (a) for the following purpose:
 (i) for goods other than gift cards—for the purpose of re‑supply;
 (ii) for gift cards—for the purpose of re‑supply in trade or commerce; or
 (b) for the purpose of using them up or transforming them, in trade or commerce:
 (i) in the course of a process of production or manufacture; or
 (ii) in the course of repairing or treating other goods or fixtures on land.

So still wrong, and now relying on imagining a different reality where the laws (you claimed to know but didn't bother to read) are different to this world. Goods are covered regardless of its intended distinction between consumer or business supply (as in clause 2) if any of the other clauses apply. No need to argue on that distinction when you only need to fulfil one of the clauses of subsection 1.

Which is what I said from the start:

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.

Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

your interpretation is failing, not mine.
Lets take a quote from that specifically linked page:

A business can be a consumer too. A product or service bought for business use is covered by consumer guarantees, when it meets at least one of the following conditions:

• it costs less than $100,000 including GST
• ... [other possible conditions]

My claim that business purchases are protected the same as consumers up to $$$ value, is pretty much exactly what the responsible authority says.

Not sure how much clearer it can be? Do love your dismissal with zero explanation, avoiding anyone possibly addressing your imagined point... do come back with some completely out of context "but but but I'm right" and we'll all have a laugh.

... and as predicted you're off onto a completely different point trying to hold onto the "but but but I'm right"

[egonotto]

Hello,

I contacted Rohde & Schwarz again after I had received the rejection from Rohde & Schwarz and before I had received the current manual from friendly people.
I asked how I could get the data I wanted and whether I could still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices.

Today I received an answer. The requested files were sent to me by e-mail.
Thank you for that.
I was also told that Rohde & Schwarz no longer sells directly to private individuals, but that I can still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices via Batronix, for example.

Best regards
egonotto

[thm_w]

"Please note: The Product Downloads Center is exclusively available for accounts with a corporate email address."
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements."

Registered with company email, denied. Company was in the D&B list on the site, so that alone isn't enough. There is some sort of manual verification taking place after you apply, probably in the German time zone.
Trying again now with another company email domain.

[EEVblog]

I was also told that Rohde & Schwarz no longer sells directly to private individuals, but that I can still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices via Batronix, for example.

No surprise there, very common in the industry.

[EEVblog]

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.

Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.

No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

No way you wouldn't win that one in Australia, our consumer protection laws are one of the strictest in the world.
If you legally purchased the product in Australia as an individual and the company refuses to give you support because you aren't a business, they will lose.
The only way they could possibly weasle oiut of this is if the authorised distrubutor who you bought it from had a very specific policy and vetter sales to professional business customers only.
If they let you just freely buy as a consumer then you are covered under consumer law.

[mhsprang]

I was also told that Rohde & Schwarz no longer sells directly to private individuals, but that I can still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices via Batronix, for example.

No surprise there, very common in the industry.

And according to R&S policy, Batronix would then be responsible for publishing manuals and firmware updates. But there's nothing to be found there. Neither at Farnell.com, who also sell R&S.

[mhsprang]

"Please note: The Product Downloads Center is exclusively available for accounts with a corporate email address."
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements."

Registered with company email, denied. Company was in the D&B list on the site, so that alone isn't enough. There is some sort of manual verification taking place after you apply, probably in the German time zone.
Trying again now with another company email domain.

I had the same problem: company and all. Official domain. D&B registration. No joy at R&S. So I wrote to them at their support e-mail and someone fixed it.

[rwhale]

Sounds like the problem I had with KS. My E4404b (Which I bought new from them with most options) needed a new memory/battery. I thought ah, I'll just order it from their web store and be done. Nope. Wouldn't sell it to me because of my email address. I appealed, still nope. Bought it from Digikey for much less. All they dis is insure I'll never buy another instrument from them again. Yet, they still send me emails trying to sell me new equipment...at the same address. Go figure.

Russ