Anyone noticed that Rohde & Schwarz is blocking firmware informations / updates?

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry.  It wasn't a choice that any of us wanted (and to be honest, we found out at the same time you all did), but it is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward. 

Can you elucidate - exactly what requirement, from whom?

[robert.rozee]

of course, this could be seen as an opportunity for other manufacturers to create a new selling point for their products. for instance, imagine seeing this in the product advertising:

Unlike some of the others, the Siglent model SDS-[newscope] now comes with GUARANTEED free lifetime firmware upgrades and manual availability from the Siglent website. Just enter the (serial) model number of your Siglent product and gain instant access to free updated firmware, manuals, and unique special offers. No signup required. Siglent, we keep you safe and up to date, GUARANTEED

if this was run as part of an advertising campaign i'd imagine the likes of HP/R&S/etc would be a little taken aback. Siglent et al could even do something like what Fluke did when they released their 70 series multimeters, showing a field of beat-up and burnt out multimeters from the other manufacturers, with a pristine and fully working Fluke 77 pictured in the front of them.


cheers,
rob   :-)

edit: for those who are uncomfortable with the idea of entering a serial number, changed to model number. the intention was just to lead the user quickly to the right set of files.

[tautech]

of course, this could be seen as an opportunity for other manufacturers to create a new selling point for their products. for instance, imagine seeing this in the product advertising:

Unlike some of the others, the Siglent model SDS-[newscope] now comes with GUARANTEED free lifetime firmware upgrades and manual availability from the Siglent website. Just enter the serial number of your Siglent product and gain instant access to free updated firmware, manuals, and unique special offers. No signup required. Siglent, we keep you safe and up to date, GUARANTEED

if this was ran as part of an advertising campaign i'd imagine the likes of HP/R&S/etc would me a little taken aback. Siglent et al could even do something like what Fluke did when they released their 70 series multimeters, showing a field of beat-up and burnt out multimeters from the other manufacturers, with a pristine and fully working Fluke 77 pictured in the front of them.


cheers,
rob   :-)

Siglent login is NOT required for docs, FW or SW however it is darn useful to identify a rebranded Siglent product using the Warranty tab to discover it's actual Siglent model.

Just yesterday Siglent Tech support looked up a Digitech DSO for me and sent a screenshot identifying it as a 25 MHz SDS1022DL+ a model we don't see in the west in Siglent clothes.

So after 11 years never needing to set up an account I did just now and used the Warranty status of that Digitech DSO to find its model.
Too easy....we learn new tricks every day !

[Calvin]

Hi,

In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that

Oh yeah, we all know those marketing BS-excuses all too well. 
Neither you nor anybody else from RS answered my Qs a few years ago regarding some problems wih our Scope Rider RTH1004 and RS in Germany not really beeing helpful either.
No reaction at all, nothing, nichts, nada. 
That´s when I basically stopped regarding RS as A-Brand source for us. 

regards
Calvin

[rf-messkopf]

From the neighboring thread:

Ticket has been resolved in new R&S style 
I need to ask for firmware from the dealer I bought he oscilloscope ...

"    Dear Customer,
Ticket xxxxxx has been resolved.
The resolution proposed is:
As your scope was bought by the distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG  you have to contact your distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG about this question.
If you need further assistance on this ticket please login to our Support Center or contact us via email.
If no response is received, this ticket will automatically close in 60 days.
If you prefer to contact Customer Support via phone, please choose the appropriate number for your region here."

So the idea seems to be that basically every private individual has to go to a distributor to have this resolved on a case-by-case basis. I can only hope that the dealers will give R&S a piece of their mind.

Now what am I supposed to do when I, for example, want an update or a manual for my 10 year old vector signal generator that was never sold by any of the distributors? Will I have to trash it and buy one from China instead?

Notice that in B2C contrats in Germany the customer has a right to receive updates for digital products "for a reasonable period of time". This implements an EU directive into national law. See here (in German).

Moreover, the forthcoming EU Cyber Resilience Act will require manufacturers and vendors to issue security updates for certain digital products (most test modern equipment will fall under this act imo) "for a reasonable period of time". This will, as far as I read it, apply to B2B and B2C contrats alike. I hope R&S will have processes in place to comply with this act.

Anyway, this means that R&S is dead for me.

[mk_]

Moreover, the forthcoming EU Cyber Resilience Act will require manufacturers and vendors to issue security updates for certain digital products (most test modern equipment will fall under this act imo) "for a reasonable period of time". This will, as far as I read it, apply to B2B and B2C contrats alike. I hope R&S will have processes in place to comply with this act.

Anyway, this means that R&S is dead for me.

Same here, using several R&S equipment (LISN, Receiver,Powersupplies, nothing fancy, just worth the money when bought. Also some RTB200x, RTM400x, Current Probes and so on).

I will not buy R&S anymore as I really do not argue why my email is not looking as a "business-email"
There are others who are thankfully take my money and ship good equipment without stupid questions.

[xrunner]

Really sorry to hear about their policy change. I just don't see why these companies want to do this to loyal customers of new OR used equipment of theirs.

[nctnico]

From the neighboring thread:

Ticket has been resolved in new R&S style 
I need to ask for firmware from the dealer I bought he oscilloscope ...

"    Dear Customer,
Ticket xxxxxx has been resolved.
The resolution proposed is:
As your scope was bought by the distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG  you have to contact your distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG about this question.
If you need further assistance on this ticket please login to our Support Center or contact us via email.
If no response is received, this ticket will automatically close in 60 days.
If you prefer to contact Customer Support via phone, please choose the appropriate number for your region here."

So the idea seems to be that basically every private individual has to go to a distributor to have this resolved on a case-by-case basis. I can only hope that the dealers will give R&S a piece of their mind.

Why? The dealers got a piece of the pie so they are supposed to work for it.

Still, I think it is a very bad idea to put information & firmware behind a login. Especially if that means there is a processing delay. When I need a manual to look something up while working on a project, I need the information RIGHT NOW because I'm on the clock. Probably somebody in the marketing department came up with the stupid idea just to harvest email adresses and information about possible customers without realising it seriously hampers the existing customers (the ones more likely to spend money at R&S again without needing any effort from the marketing department).

[mikeselectricstuff]

There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.
Potential customers may well want to consult these to look at details to see if a product is suitable for their needs.

[ejeffrey]

But they want customers to make buying decisions based on marketing flyers alone.  If you buy a product and then find out it won't do what you want without a lot of extra work that's still a sale.

[Aldo22]

If you buy a product and then find out it won't do what you want without a lot of extra work that's still a sale.

But then you don't buy it.
Even the cheapest $50 AWG FY3200 has a decent and downloadable spec sheet.
Even if you're not blown away by the specs themselves, the information and accessibility of the specs makes the device a reasonably reputable product.
Without this, I wouldn't have even paid the $50. 

[rf-messkopf]

So the idea seems to be that basically every private individual has to go to a distributor to have this resolved on a case-by-case basis. I can only hope that the dealers will give R&S a piece of their mind.

Why? The dealers got a piece of the pie so they are supposed to work for it.

Well, they have to dedicate resources to a potentially large number of inquires, develop processes, etc., and this likely comes as a surprise to them as well. I was hoping that they would find this annoying and unnecessary since the information is already available elsewhere.

It is not the first time that R&S seem to try to pull this off. A year or two ago suddenly private accounts could no longer log on to GLORIS, which was then presented as an unfortunate mistake during data migration. The resolution was that private accounts could still retrieve all information from GLORIS, and only spare part orders and service requests were supposed to be handled by the distributors. Now the matter is obviously being forced through regardless of losses. 

Still, I think it is a very bad idea to put information & firmware behind a login. Especially if that means there is a processing delay. When I need a manual to look something up while working on a project, I need the information RIGHT NOW because I'm on the clock. Probably somebody in the marketing department came up with the stupid idea just to harvest email adresses and information about possible customers without realising it seriously hampers the existing customers (the ones more likely to spend money at R&S again without needing any effort from the marketing department).

I couldn't agree more. Plus there can be legal obligations to provide updates and manuals, at least in the EU, and that will likely increase.

[alonsojar]

I also opened a ticket today before reading this thread and got the same answer: Since I don't have a corporate mail (I'm retired, so I don't have it anymore) I cannot access the system.
 
I find this position stupid and arrogant, whatever was the reason for that.
I was aware that in case of any real support request I should contact the dealer I purchased the equipment (Farnell and a local dealer in my case), but just to get an updated copy of a User Manual pdf or a fw download or even to check if there are any news... Seriously? 
This is taking us back to the pre-internet times  Thank you R&S
J.Alonso

[NE666]

There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.

Especially when those manuals are for equipment that was obsoleted 20+ years ago. I'm looking at you, Keysight. et al.

[asmi]

Ultimately I don't think they are gonna care about this outrage. Their equipment is priced such that very few private people could afford it, and in companies there is typically a dedicated person which handles maintenance of devices fleet, so to them this registration is not going to be a problem (unless it will be ungodly buggy and will lead to some serious equipment downtime, which I doubt will be the case).

[rf-messkopf]

Especially when those manuals are for equipment that was obsoleted 20+ years ago. I'm looking at you, Keysight. et al.

The funny thing is that now you can't even check if there is a new firmware version for your R&S instrument that was shipped new today without explicitly asking the dealer. Unless you have a "company" email address. And you would have to make regular inquiries to keep your instrument up to date. Oh, and no manual for you without asking, since these days the boxes are only shipped with a brief "Getting Started" leaflet.

Ultimately I don't think they are gonna care at this outrage.

Likely.

[DimitriP]

Probably some new guy making "improvements" ...

https://euro-sd.com/2024/08/major-news/39797/rohde-and-schwarz-changes/

[DimitriP]

Ok...it's not a new guy, but an existing (CIO) guy in a new ( COO) position.

Good Luck! 

https://www.bisinfotech.com/personnel-change-to-the-rohde-schwarz-executive-board/

[eTobey]

Hi,

In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that

Oh yeah, we all know those marketing BS-excuses all too well. 
Neither you nor anybody else from RS answered my Qs a few years ago regarding some problems wih our Scope Rider RTH1004 and RS in Germany not really beeing helpful either.
No reaction at all, nothing, nichts, nada. 
That´s when I basically stopped regarding RS as A-Brand source for us. 

This is the way to go!!!

[jc101]

There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.
Potential customers may well want to consult these to look at details to see if a product is suitable for their needs.

^ This.
Before buying any bit of kit I will grab the user manual to see if it does what I need and to get a feel for the UI. The harder this is, the easier it is to look elsewhere.

[nctnico]

Especially when those manuals are for equipment that was obsoleted 20+ years ago. I'm looking at you, Keysight. et al.

The funny thing is that now you can't even check if there is a new firmware version for your R&S instrument that was shipped new today without explicitly asking the dealer. Unless you have a "company" email address. And you would have to make regular inquiries to keep your instrument up to date. Oh, and no manual for you without asking, since these days the boxes are only shipped with a brief "Getting Started" leaflet.

That is a very good point I'd like to emphasize!

[Martin72]

But that's common practice now, across all manufacturers.
“We” are much more drastic about it.
You want a manual? Pay for it!...

[KungFuJosh]

But that's common practice now, across all manufacturers.
“We” are much more drastic about it.
You want a manual? Pay for it!...

How many home / hobby customers does your company have? 😉

[Martin72]

That is not the point in my view.

[nctnico]

But that's common practice now, across all manufacturers.
“We” are much more drastic about it.
You want a manual? Pay for it!...

I assume that is a nicely printed, hand-bound printed / paper manual with autographs of the entire engineering team? 
I'd guess a PDF is still free?