Author Topic: Anyone noticed that Rohde & Schwarz is blocking firmware informations / updates?  (Read 28440 times)

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Offline RK_aus_STopic starter

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Hi

It seems that Rohde&Schwarz has changed its website / policy so that private or end customers can no longer find firmware update information for any devices, let alone download firmware updates.
Or can anyone as a private or end customer (in other countries) still access Rohde & Schwarz firmware updates and information?
My request to Rohde&Schwarz was rejected because I was, literally "...not a corporate customer".

I could imagine that some people here might be interested. Of course, I cannot say whether this is a misunderstanding or whether this change is permanent.

Regards
Roman
 
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Offline Kean

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There is an issue they are aware of that is causing problems with registrations, probably needing to be manually reviewed and approved.

I am not sure if there is (or ever will be) a resolution for private customers.  I suggest you will need to go back to the seller that you it purchased through who should be able to assist.

Also see discussion at
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/newly-released-entry-level-rs-nge100-power-supply-series/msg5697807/#msg5697807
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg5700717/#msg5700717
 
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Online jjoonathan

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Ewwwwwwww, gross   :--

Not only are they requiring an account, you have to argue with someone who tries to tell you that your @company.com email isn't a corporate email   :rant:

... and then you apparently have to ask separate permission to download firmware  :wtf:
 
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Offline Hydron

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Ugh, shame to see them go down the KS route, if there's no solution for private customers then I guess I'll be putting R&S on the "avoid if possible" list for the labs I choose gear for (my hobby setup, and the labs at work).
 
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Online coppercone2

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trust me ks is no better with any corp account . it just does not care. or want to learn problems from the little guys to help the big guys. if you sell hardware every customer is a possible source of useful information. its like deciding to stop reading as a human being.


If your TM manufacturer locked itself into some tiny more profitable market, expect them to be useless because they have zero skill trouble shooting anything but some initial 'hot' deal they sleezed with someone. it's just a fact of technology. kind of like the king not knowing how to make toast bread because its for the underclasses.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 02:49:19 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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Still no answer from R&S to my inquiry.

As I wrote in the other thread, I was able to register with my private email address, but now it is complaining that my email address is not a company address when I log in, and I cannot download any of the "premium content".

The nasty thing about it is that customers bought their devices assuming different conditions. If R&S is serious about this, they should at least take back purchased equipment and refund the costs.

Better avoid R&S as a private individual in the future.

Edit: you cannot even download manuals without being logged in.  |O :-DD
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 02:48:47 pm by rf-messkopf »
 
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Online coppercone2

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too many people said their super smart and they think they figured everything out and nothing useful will come from talking to the customers and that they will have the peak hardware forever despite not knowing the requirements other then from their biggest customers that are stuck in legacy mode  ::)
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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trust me ks is no better with any corp account .

Last time I checked KS lets you download firmware and manuals even as a private individual. Now it seems that at R&S it is not limited to them not talking to you, but they don't even let you help yourself with information and software on their website. This is really novel.
 
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Online jjoonathan

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Right. https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/ should not be a competitive advantage, but now it is.

"Premium content?" Do I have to subscribe to my oscilloscope's onlyfans to see waveforms now?
 
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Offline madires

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Bummer! First Keysight, now R&S. What's next? Subscriptions for DSOs?
 
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Offline newbrain

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Subscriptions for DSOs?
Sshh! Don't give them any idea!  :-X
Nandemo wa shiranai wa yo, shitteru koto dake.
 
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Offline squadchannel

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Can't even download the manual?
It would be toooooooooooooooooo crazy. :--

my experience is that the permissions changed between 10/16 and 10/28.
It would be a good idea for those who can download the file to back it up to xdevs, etc.

Tek is still ok. need an account to download to software and firmware, but gmail will work.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 03:37:10 pm by squadchannel »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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"Premium content?" Do I have to subscribe to my oscilloscope's onlyfans to see waveforms now?

Adult (XX)XY mode photos could make some pennies. 🤔
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
Best Continuity Tester Ever
 
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Online jjoonathan

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The RTO2000 options page is private, but don't worry, I am here to leak the innovative new premium features  8)
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry.  It is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward.  Because of so many registrations (and how quickly this happened), there have been some hiccups, but we're working to make it easier/better - hopefully we can ease some of the initial restrictions as we learn more.

In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that (we're consumers too - and get frustrated at things like this as well).

In the meantime - if you're a personal account and having trouble getting registered (while we figure out these new requirements), please don't hesitate to reach out to a partner - they are there to help and often have flexibility we do not. 

-Rich
« Last Edit: November 07, 2024, 07:23:21 pm by Rich@RohdeScopesUSA »
 
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Online tautech

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Right. https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/ should not be a competitive advantage, but now it is.
Much prefer the FW/SW/Docs access from Shenzhen HQ to that from the US and EU websites.

Freely available to everyone.......
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Online langwadt

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In the meantime - if you're a personal account and having trouble getting registered (while we figure out these new requirements), please don't hesitate to reach out to a partner - they are there to help and often have flexibility we do not. 

how can partners have less restrictions than the mother company, unless they are self imposed?
 
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Offline Detlev

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It's a shame, if that turns out to be true, Rohde & Schwarz will be dead for me. I have a few R&S devices, including the FPL1000, all bought new and now I shouldn't get any new firmware? So you lose the trust of your customers and the Chinese are happy.

 >:(
This post is "Made in Germany" 😎
 
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Online coppercone2

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trust me ks is no better with any corp account .

Last time I checked KS lets you download firmware and manuals even as a private individual. Now it seems that at R&S it is not limited to them not talking to you, but they don't even let you help yourself with information and software on their website. This is really novel.

Keysight did not get that bad yet but I am saying that if you got a problem with them don't think it will go away if your with a big customer of theirs.  :-DD

A DMV approach. There is the illusion that if you roll with the gangsters you get things done. For anyone that thinks it might be discrimination.

We put the guy that did odd jobs and had 'free time' at work to deal with KS. Not any of the experts... they all promptly said its futile. It would be kind of like Picard deciding to use Commander Riker instead of Geordi Le Forge for a engineering 'situation'... he always had a kind of method to deal with sleezey stuff.

What I was getting at is a trend of the T&M companies getting generally bad. its like all your behavior if being leveraged to some how apply to some future negotiation rather then actually problem solving.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 09:57:05 pm by coppercone2 »
 
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Offline J-R

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It's simple: companies have to follow the laws of the countries they operate from.  There are certain countries they are not allowed to sell products to or provide firmware/code to.  If they want to avoid fines when the books are audited, they'll need records of what went where.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Ugh, shame to see them go down the KS route

I just posted the other day that Keysight sent me a personalised email (because I'm already on their database) to download a free poster. Click on the link and I was taken to a sign up page to put in all my corporate details and intentions etc.
I'm already on the system :palm:
 
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Online coppercone2

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The DMV also mailed me the same warning 4 times 2 weeks after it was handled
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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Keysight did not get that bad yet but I am saying that if you got a problem with them don't think it will go away if your with a big customer of theirs.  :-DD

But I don't expect them to solve my problems. I only want to download firmware updates, instrument drivers or manuals for my instruments every now and then.  :-//

It's simple: companies have to follow the laws of the countries they operate from.  There are certain countries they are not allowed to sell products to or provide firmware/code to.  If they want to avoid fines when the books are audited, they'll need records of what went where.

I'd be surprised if there's a legal requirement behind this (although this might be claimed as an excuse). This "premium content" stuff has written business-optimization-by-clueless-people all over it. And it's an opportunity to collect market data.
 

Online coppercone2

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problems = software stop working (or drivers). kiss that computer connectivity good bye
 

Offline EEVblog

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It's simple: companies have to follow the laws of the countries they operate from.  There are certain countries they are not allowed to sell products to or provide firmware/code to.  If they want to avoid fines when the books are audited, they'll need records of what went where.

Yes, I suspect this is the genesis of the change, other companies have been forced to do the same and have mentioned that is the reason. And it's easier to change the system globally then it is to manage different systems for different countries. So one countries stupid laws can ruin it for everyone. Don't get me started on the EU GDPR...
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry.  It wasn't a choice that any of us wanted (and to be honest, we found out at the same time you all did), but it is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward. 
Can you elucidate - exactly what requirement, from whom?
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Offline robert.rozee

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of course, this could be seen as an opportunity for other manufacturers to create a new selling point for their products. for instance, imagine seeing this in the product advertising:


Unlike some of the others, the Siglent model SDS-[newscope] now comes with GUARANTEED free lifetime firmware upgrades and manual availability from the Siglent website. Just enter the (serial) model number of your Siglent product and gain instant access to free updated firmware, manuals, and unique special offers. No signup required. Siglent, we keep you safe and up to date, GUARANTEED


if this was run as part of an advertising campaign i'd imagine the likes of HP/R&S/etc would be a little taken aback. Siglent et al could even do something like what Fluke did when they released their 70 series multimeters, showing a field of beat-up and burnt out multimeters from the other manufacturers, with a pristine and fully working Fluke 77 pictured in the front of them.


cheers,
rob   :-)

edit: for those who are uncomfortable with the idea of entering a serial number, changed to model number. the intention was just to lead the user quickly to the right set of files.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2024, 01:07:37 pm by robert.rozee »
 

Online tautech

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of course, this could be seen as an opportunity for other manufacturers to create a new selling point for their products. for instance, imagine seeing this in the product advertising:


Unlike some of the others, the Siglent model SDS-[newscope] now comes with GUARANTEED free lifetime firmware upgrades and manual availability from the Siglent website. Just enter the serial number of your Siglent product and gain instant access to free updated firmware, manuals, and unique special offers. No signup required. Siglent, we keep you safe and up to date, GUARANTEED


if this was ran as part of an advertising campaign i'd imagine the likes of HP/R&S/etc would me a little taken aback. Siglent et al could even do something like what Fluke did when they released their 70 series multimeters, showing a field of beat-up and burnt out multimeters from the other manufacturers, with a pristine and fully working Fluke 77 pictured in the front of them.


cheers,
rob   :-)
:blah:

Siglent login is NOT required for docs, FW or SW however it is darn useful to identify a rebranded Siglent product using the Warranty tab to discover it's actual Siglent model.

Just yesterday Siglent Tech support looked up a Digitech DSO for me and sent a screenshot identifying it as a 25 MHz SDS1022DL+ a model we don't see in the west in Siglent clothes.

So after 11 years never needing to set up an account I did just now and used the Warranty status of that Digitech DSO to find its model.
Too easy....we learn new tricks every day !
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline Calvin

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Hi,

Quote
In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that

Oh yeah, we all know those marketing BS-excuses all too well.  :blah: :blah: :blah:
Neither you nor anybody else from RS answered my Qs a few years ago regarding some problems wih our Scope Rider RTH1004 and RS in Germany not really beeing helpful either.
No reaction at all, nothing, nichts, nada.  :--
That´s when I basically stopped regarding RS as A-Brand source for us.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

regards
Calvin

..... it builds character!
 
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Offline rf-messkopf

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From the neighboring thread:

Ticket has been resolved in new R&S style  :)
I need to ask for firmware from the dealer I bought he oscilloscope ...

"    Dear Customer,
Ticket xxxxxx has been resolved.
The resolution proposed is:
As your scope was bought by the distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG  you have to contact your distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG about this question.
If you need further assistance on this ticket please login to our Support Center or contact us via email.
If no response is received, this ticket will automatically close in 60 days.
If you prefer to contact Customer Support via phone, please choose the appropriate number for your region here."

So the idea seems to be that basically every private individual has to go to a distributor to have this resolved on a case-by-case basis. I can only hope that the dealers will give R&S a piece of their mind.

Now what am I supposed to do when I, for example, want an update or a manual for my 10 year old vector signal generator that was never sold by any of the distributors? Will I have to trash it and buy one from China instead?

Notice that in B2C contrats in Germany the customer has a right to receive updates for digital products "for a reasonable period of time". This implements an EU directive into national law. See here (in German).

Moreover, the forthcoming EU Cyber Resilience Act will require manufacturers and vendors to issue security updates for certain digital products (most test modern equipment will fall under this act imo) "for a reasonable period of time". This will, as far as I read it, apply to B2B and B2C contrats alike. I hope R&S will have processes in place to comply with this act.

Anyway, this means that R&S is dead for me.
 
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Offline mk_

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Moreover, the forthcoming EU Cyber Resilience Act will require manufacturers and vendors to issue security updates for certain digital products (most test modern equipment will fall under this act imo) "for a reasonable period of time". This will, as far as I read it, apply to B2B and B2C contrats alike. I hope R&S will have processes in place to comply with this act.

Anyway, this means that R&S is dead for me.


Same here, using several R&S equipment (LISN, Receiver,Powersupplies, nothing fancy, just worth the money when bought. Also some RTB200x, RTM400x, Current Probes and so on).

I will not buy R&S anymore as I really do not argue why my email is not looking as a "business-email"
There are others who are thankfully take my money and ship good equipment without stupid questions.
 

Offline xrunner

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Really sorry to hear about their policy change. I just don't see why these companies want to do this to loyal customers of new OR used equipment of theirs.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Online nctnico

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From the neighboring thread:

Ticket has been resolved in new R&S style  :)
I need to ask for firmware from the dealer I bought he oscilloscope ...

"    Dear Customer,
Ticket xxxxxx has been resolved.
The resolution proposed is:
As your scope was bought by the distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG  you have to contact your distributor Batronix GmbH & Co. KG about this question.
If you need further assistance on this ticket please login to our Support Center or contact us via email.
If no response is received, this ticket will automatically close in 60 days.
If you prefer to contact Customer Support via phone, please choose the appropriate number for your region here."

So the idea seems to be that basically every private individual has to go to a distributor to have this resolved on a case-by-case basis. I can only hope that the dealers will give R&S a piece of their mind.
Why? The dealers got a piece of the pie so they are supposed to work for it.

Still, I think it is a very bad idea to put information & firmware behind a login. Especially if that means there is a processing delay. When I need a manual to look something up while working on a project, I need the information RIGHT NOW because I'm on the clock. Probably somebody in the marketing department came up with the stupid idea just to harvest email adresses and information about possible customers without realising it seriously hampers the existing customers (the ones more likely to spend money at R&S again without needing any effort from the marketing department).
« Last Edit: November 06, 2024, 01:51:23 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.
Potential customers may well want to consult these to look at details to see if a product is suitable for their needs.

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Offline ejeffrey

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But they want customers to make buying decisions based on marketing flyers alone.  If you buy a product and then find out it won't do what you want without a lot of extra work that's still a sale.
 

Online Aldo22

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If you buy a product and then find out it won't do what you want without a lot of extra work that's still a sale.

But then you don't buy it.
Even the cheapest $50 AWG FY3200 has a decent and downloadable spec sheet.
Even if you're not blown away by the specs themselves, the information and accessibility of the specs makes the device a reasonably reputable product.
Without this, I wouldn't have even paid the $50.  ;)
 
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Offline rf-messkopf

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So the idea seems to be that basically every private individual has to go to a distributor to have this resolved on a case-by-case basis. I can only hope that the dealers will give R&S a piece of their mind.
Why? The dealers got a piece of the pie so they are supposed to work for it.

Well, they have to dedicate resources to a potentially large number of inquires, develop processes, etc., and this likely comes as a surprise to them as well. I was hoping that they would find this annoying and unnecessary since the information is already available elsewhere. :)

It is not the first time that R&S seem to try to pull this off. A year or two ago suddenly private accounts could no longer log on to GLORIS, which was then presented as an unfortunate mistake during data migration. The resolution was that private accounts could still retrieve all information from GLORIS, and only spare part orders and service requests were supposed to be handled by the distributors. Now the matter is obviously being forced through regardless of losses.  :)

Still, I think it is a very bad idea to put information & firmware behind a login. Especially if that means there is a processing delay. When I need a manual to look something up while working on a project, I need the information RIGHT NOW because I'm on the clock. Probably somebody in the marketing department came up with the stupid idea just to harvest email adresses and information about possible customers without realising it seriously hampers the existing customers (the ones more likely to spend money at R&S again without needing any effort from the marketing department).

I couldn't agree more. Plus there can be legal obligations to provide updates and manuals, at least in the EU, and that will likely increase.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2024, 04:11:12 pm by rf-messkopf »
 
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Offline alonsojar

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I also opened a ticket today before reading this thread and got the same answer: Since I don't have a corporate mail (I'm retired, so I don't have it anymore) I cannot access the system.
 
I find this position stupid and arrogant, whatever was the reason for that.
I was aware that in case of any real support request I should contact the dealer I purchased the equipment (Farnell and a local dealer in my case), but just to get an updated copy of a User Manual pdf or a fw download or even to check if there are any news... Seriously? 
This is taking us back to the pre-internet times  :-\ Thank you R&S
J.Alonso
 
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Online NE666

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There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.

Especially when those manuals are for equipment that was obsoleted 20+ years ago. I'm looking at you, Keysight. et al.
 
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Online asmi

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Ultimately I don't think they are gonna care about this outrage. Their equipment is priced such that very few private people could afford it, and in companies there is typically a dedicated person which handles maintenance of devices fleet, so to them this registration is not going to be a problem (unless it will be ungodly buggy and will lead to some serious equipment downtime, which I doubt will be the case).
« Last Edit: November 06, 2024, 08:47:45 pm by asmi »
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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Especially when those manuals are for equipment that was obsoleted 20+ years ago. I'm looking at you, Keysight. et al.

The funny thing is that now you can't even check if there is a new firmware version for your R&S instrument that was shipped new today without explicitly asking the dealer. Unless you have a "company" email address. And you would have to make regular inquiries to keep your instrument up to date. Oh, and no manual for you without asking, since these days the boxes are only shipped with a brief "Getting Started" leaflet.

Ultimately I don't think they are gonna care at this outrage.

Likely.
 
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Offline DimitriP

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Ok...it's not a new guy, but an existing (CIO) guy in a new ( COO) position.

Good Luck!  :palm:

https://www.bisinfotech.com/personnel-change-to-the-rohde-schwarz-executive-board/
   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline eTobey

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Hi,

Quote
In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that

Oh yeah, we all know those marketing BS-excuses all too well.  :blah: :blah: :blah:
Neither you nor anybody else from RS answered my Qs a few years ago regarding some problems wih our Scope Rider RTH1004 and RS in Germany not really beeing helpful either.
No reaction at all, nothing, nichts, nada.  :--
That´s when I basically stopped regarding RS as A-Brand source for us.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

This is the way to go!!!
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline jc101

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There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.
Potential customers may well want to consult these to look at details to see if a product is suitable for their needs.
^ This.
Before buying any bit of kit I will grab the user manual to see if it does what I need and to get a feel for the UI. The harder this is, the easier it is to look elsewhere.
 

Online nctnico

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Especially when those manuals are for equipment that was obsoleted 20+ years ago. I'm looking at you, Keysight. et al.

The funny thing is that now you can't even check if there is a new firmware version for your R&S instrument that was shipped new today without explicitly asking the dealer. Unless you have a "company" email address. And you would have to make regular inquiries to keep your instrument up to date. Oh, and no manual for you without asking, since these days the boxes are only shipped with a brief "Getting Started" leaflet.
That is a very good point I'd like to emphasize!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Martin72

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But that's common practice now, across all manufacturers.
“We” are much more drastic about it.
You want a manual? Pay for it!... :-X ;)

Offline KungFuJosh

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But that's common practice now, across all manufacturers.
“We” are much more drastic about it.
You want a manual? Pay for it!... :-X ;)

How many home / hobby customers does your company have? 😉
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Online Martin72

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That is not the point in my view.

Online nctnico

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But that's common practice now, across all manufacturers.
“We” are much more drastic about it.
You want a manual? Pay for it!... :-X ;)
I assume that is a nicely printed, hand-bound printed / paper manual with autographs of the entire engineering team?  ;D
I'd guess a PDF is still free?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Martin72

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Nope.
Either you know how an inverter/converter works, or you pay for it.
I have to say that most of our products only have Start/Stop and Remote.
Anyone who needs instructions for that doesn't deserve any better. ;)
(A small note: anyone who orders a document package from us will also receive circuit diagrams and service instructions.)
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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That is not the point in my view.

Well, you did use the word "all" for manufacturers, and we know quite well that isn't the case. Siglent rules them all now. 😉
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Offline Neoname

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I am very upset about this.

I have a MXO4, LCX200 and a NGP824 all with options, all bought new.

I previously had some Keysight equipment. All of which I sold off precisely because Keysight UK support refused to deal with me as a private individual after a display failure.

I bought R&S equipment because they had no problem with me as a private individual. The company line in my GLORIS account says "Private - GB - United Kingdom Account for private person" and this was not a problem.

As it stands, I cannot download firmware or see the manual for any of my equipment.

There is a pop-up form that is supposed to enable access, but I cannot submit it because it gives the error "You cannot submit the form. There are errors. Please review" and keeps the company postal code box highlighted in red no matter what I put there.

The postal code under my GLORIS My Profile - Personal Data - Company Data is blank, unsurprisingly.

I'm hoping this is some bug that can be fixed. Else this is just another betrayal.
 
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Offline ArdWar

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Tried to register a while ago, using company mail, .gov mail, .edu mail. All still shown the "get access" button. Clicking it will gets me "Your request was sent successfully" but they never come back with anything useful.

So, do I get into the naughty list? Apparently not. The resources are still there available for me to access all this time. Just not in the most obvious or logical place. Wtf RS?

The product pages and the request access are completely useless (for now). Instead you need to go to "My Rohde & Schwarz" link below your logged in account menu. You can still access most formerly readily available docs and collaterals from there.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2024, 07:05:46 am by ArdWar »
 

Offline Hydron

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Can you actually download from those links though? I have GLORIS access and can see stuff but not actually download it. Total mess
 
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Offline ebastler

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I am not sure I understand what the exact issue is.
  • Is the fact that R&S wants a login before offering downloads considered unacceptable?
  • Or is the problem that they somehow bungled the implementation, so logging in or creating an account does not work? That would be a temporary problem, but they better fix it fast.
  • Or is their new system working as designed, and in fact does not allow private accounts/customers? That would be a real no-go in my opinion.
Thank you for clarifying!
 

Offline Hydron

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All of the above, login just for viewing a manual is unacceptable, if you have an account it seems to still be broken or need some intervention, and finally sounds like they're leaving all private owners at the mercy of whoever they bought the gear from (so good luck getting even basic stuff like firmware or a manual if you bought second hand or the distributor went bust).
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.
Potential customers may well want to consult these to look at details to see if a product is suitable for their needs.
^ This.
Before buying any bit of kit I will grab the user manual to see if it does what I need and to get a feel for the UI. The harder this is, the easier it is to look elsewhere.
And not only that but, by allowing anonymous access, you are guaranteed to not have your corporate e-mail spammed by the supplier asking for additional information about you, your position, relevance to the purchasing process and so on. I have my corporate e-mail already spammed enough for the things that I already use at work. I don't need more from simple research and prospective purchases.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline eTobey

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How come, that R&S is supplying the military and has bodyscanners in their portfolio? That is quite far away from test equipment?
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline ebastler

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How come, that R&S is supplying the military and has bodyscanners in their portfolio? That is quite far away from test equipment?

They have always sold a wide range of HF equipment to my knowledge.
 

Offline electr_peter

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Almost all R&S product related downloads are locked - FW updates, SW (can't even get latest SW release version number), manuals, drivers. All this was available in last month.

This trend (among other signs) does not inspire confidence in R&S as a brand. :--
 
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Offline Pinkus

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I think one reason will be that EU law now grants consumers the right to repair (US too?). This would mean that companies would have to provide schematics and sell individual parts ... something they all want to avoid like the plague. So they simply don't sell (and support) to end consumers ... problem solved.
Oh, what good times there were when HP or Tektronix still had circuit diagrams available and every TV set came with detailed schematics.
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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I think one reason will be that EU law now grants consumers the right to repair (US too?). This would mean that companies would have to provide schematics and sell individual parts ... something they all want to avoid like the plague. So they simply don't sell (and support) to end consumers ... problem solved.
Oh, what good times there were when HP or Tektronix still had circuit diagrams available and every TV set came with detailed schematics.

Maybe, but I don't think there's anything in the law stating that they specifically need to supply parts or schematics?
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
Best Continuity Tester Ever
 
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Online langwadt

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How come, that R&S is supplying the military and has bodyscanners in their portfolio? That is quite far away from test equipment?

They have always sold a wide range of HF equipment to my knowledge.

I went to see their HQ in Munich some time in 90's. Some of the stuff they showed was broadcast radio and TV transmitters and for the military stuff like gear to do real time position tracking of radio transmission
 

Online tv84

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Soon the Rigol firmware schedule will look like a dream!

I say this because who cares about an excellent firmware update policy if one can't download it??  :palm:
 
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Online Aldo22

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Soon the Rigol firmware schedule will look like a dream!
I also have no problems with downloads.  :D
https://hantek.com/DownLoad
 
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Online tv84

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I never imagined that I would be putting a "thanks" in a message Hantek related...

Thanks to R&S!!!  :palm:
 
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Online pope

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I was about to pull the trigger on some R&S TE but guess what...
 

Offline Someone

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Almost all R&S product related downloads are locked - FW updates, SW (can't even get latest SW release version number), manuals, drivers. All this was available in last month.
Drivers... locked! truely lost the plot.
 
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Online coppercone2

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if its really about the military its silly that they don't split the business up

I doubt radio location and encryption shit has too much to do with normal test equipment.

Don't you feel like the 'closed off' companies feel totally weird ? You always feel like their foreigners and that you are a stereotype. Engineer wise. Kind of like when you visit another country and someone assumes everyone in your country is like obsessed with some niche regional thing that most people you know never heard of and it feels like creepy how they act like they know you but they really don't know you. it some how manifests itself as 'obsessive' actions.

Like there is some ultra elaborate dissection of some esoteric aspect of work that might possibly be related to your work and no one knows how to make use of it but its like a major cost and equipment focus ? And they never figure it out because they just like do B2B surveys (interview trained professional liars that absolutely will act like your on the right 'wavelength' no matter what you say if you have enough money or your boss asked you to)? And then you end up with some hyper engineered feature that no one uses but costs a shit load. Like a $5000 deicer with 15% deicing speed built into those little triangle windows in the back of a car that you forgot existed. Or like those confusing gear choices in MMO's with some necklace that gives you plus 2 spirit on wensday evenings every other full moon.


The R&S supply we have in the lab has some interesting features on it. We were wondering how many more test labs we would need to figure out how to incorporate that feature into a reasonable 'data source'. Like they would need to be trapped in purgatory for 5000 years before someone got interested in that test.  :-DD


Older engineers know more about this. I heard "signature analysis" that was being built into alot of equipment in like the late 70's had a 'bright future'. And I am sure you paid ransomly for that :D
« Last Edit: November 08, 2024, 01:43:13 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Kean

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My guess is that it is to do with export controls, exacerbated by the stuff going on in a certain large country in Europe (but not in the EU).

It could also be partly because of management "discomfort" caused by certain popular threads on forums like this one.
 
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Offline eTobey

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It could also be partly because of management "discomfort" caused by certain popular threads on forums like this one.

What threads would cause discomfort? Their prices are high enough so that they wouldnt have to deal with too many private individuals.
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline Kean

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What threads would cause discomfort? Their prices are high enough so that they wouldnt have to deal with too many private individuals.

The license hacking ones, both for their (mostly older generation) equipment but also their competitors.
Business customers historically wouldn't go down that path especially with high value equipment, but as it becomes more mainstream it certainly could impact sales.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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The license hacking ones, both for their (mostly older generation) equipment but also their competitors.
Business customers historically wouldn't go down that path especially with high value equipment, but as it becomes more mainstream it certainly could impact sales.

I'd be surprised if that was a serious concern for them. Nobody in their right mind is going to spend between $50k to $500k (per unit!) on R&S gear and then waste their time or warranty trying to hack it.
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
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Offline Kean

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I'd be surprised if that was a serious concern for them. Nobody in their right mind is going to spend between $50k to $500k (per unit!) on R&S gear and then waste their time or warranty trying to hack it.

Not on the high end gear, no - but we are mainly discussing support of private purchasers here.
I've seen mentions of people hacking their new equipment valued at more than $10k.  And some licence key hacks could be valued more than that (per sale).

But as I mention, the more this becomes normalized, the more concerning it may be for them.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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But as I mention, the more this becomes normalized, the more concerning it may be for them.

Perhaps. But I think that concern would make them have stricter licensing security, rather than locking up PDF user manuals.

Siglent locks up their higher end licensing much tighter than the less expensive stuff. They known damn well that a portion of their market are hobbyists/home users that want to hack their gear. They also know they would lose business if they made the licensing more strict for everything. None of that has inspired them to lock up any of their PDFs or firmware.
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Offline Kean

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Yeah, restricting PDF manuals is insane - it will inevitably hurt sales.  But companies overreact sometimes.  Those making decision don't always understand the tech, and may not listen to those who do - at least until it hits the bottom line.

Regarding your second point, R&S are almost certainly better these days at licensing security than others.  They have a division that specializes in cybersecurity.

I think their earlier stuff wasn't as well protected, but having it on the second hand market and be hackable could hurt some sales.  I'm thinking for example a business or university with some older gear and some technical people willing to have a go could significantly extend the life of that gear and mean a lost or delayed sale.  That obviously doesn't apply when the gear needs to be properly maintained and kept calibrated, but that is not always the case.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Unless it's a school for hacking, I don't know if that's a realistic scenario. 😉
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Online tautech

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Yeah, restricting PDF manuals is insane - it will inevitably hurt sales.  But companies overreact sometimes.  Those making decision don't always understand the tech, and may not listen to those who do - at least until it hits the bottom line.

Regarding your second point, R&S are almost certainly better these days at licensing security than others.  They have a division that specializes in cybersecurity.

I think their earlier stuff wasn't as well protected, but having it on the second hand market and be hackable could hurt some sales.  I'm thinking for example a business or university with some older gear and some technical people willing to have a go could significantly extend the life of that gear and mean a lost or delayed sale.  That obviously doesn't apply when the gear needs to be properly maintained and kept calibrated, but that is not always the case.
Well consider this:

Many instruments offer BW upgrades as an option therefore what the instrument label may show does not match the Sys Info, be it hacked or via valid license upgrade.
Applies to business or hacked upgrades.

There is NOT a BW upgrade that cannot be hacked by dedicated individuals !
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline 2N3055

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This might be something as stupid as export control on cryptography (they use it), and some stupid sanctions control overreaction.
If they cannot control sales of actual equipment through 3rd parties, this way they show how they "try" to comply with export sanctions.

Hundred of thousands of Mercedes cars that ended up on "wrong side of wall" could not be teleported back. But they denied access to support software, spare parts etc.

R&S has major military/intelligence market, and  big military/government contracts are what they have been doing as primary market for years. Small business/ private customers are just a supplementary business, nice cream on the top.
If they had some complaints about export control by anybody (or even a hint that might be problem) they will protect their primary market.
R&S is a business.

And it probably makes sense to them.
I personally think it is not going to do anything to actually prevent any proliferation of equipment or any software/FW/manual data where they don't like, but I think they know that too. They do it to show effort was put in and that they try.

So small business/ private customers are going to have to either "beg" for "privilege" to have their equipment maintained properly, or switch to equipment that considers them their "real customer" and respects them properly.

But, don't worry. I expect that soon enough there will be web sites where all the newest R&S FW, manuals and the rest will be re-shared with free access..
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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Offline madires

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I would assume the reason is money. As a manufacturer you don't make any money when some hobbyist buys your products second-hand. Therefore you discourage them. And if the hobbyists want to buy a new device they can go a reseller who has to provide also the support. We don't want those pesky little hobbyists wasting our time and costing money.
 

Online Aldo22

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I wonder why Mr. Paul Denisowski doesn't say anything?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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So I have an account that allows access to some downloads including manuals and other software, but when I click on a firmware update or release note for the RTM3000 it takes me to a login page with a "404 no access" header.
At least it does show a release note.
What a mess.  Hopefully there will be a Senior R&S person at Electronica to  complain to
« Last Edit: November 09, 2024, 11:00:03 am by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline Sorama

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I wonder why Mr. Paul Denisowski doesn't say anything?

I was wondering the same.

He probably/ for sure does not have a proper excuse. .

Maybe we should all stop buying R&S.
Such behavior is simply unacceptable.
 

Offline squadchannel

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I wonder why Mr. Paul Denisowski doesn't say anything?

he must be in perhaps the toughest position of all: middle management. :scared: :scared:
 

Offline 2N3055

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I would assume the reason is money. As a manufacturer you don't make any money when some hobbyist buys your products second-hand. Therefore you discourage them. And if the hobbyists want to buy a new device they can go a reseller who has to provide also the support. We don't want those pesky little hobbyists wasting our time and costing money.
I highly doubt second hand sales concern them even a little bit. Those people would not be buying their new equipment at retail prices anyway..
It is either political or extortion scheme (like Altium)
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
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Offline ebastler

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It is either political or extortion scheme (like Altium)

My guess is "consumer rights". I am not familiar with any legal details, but particularly in the EU there seem to be so many obligations when you sell to consumers, which either don't apply at all or can be negotiated in business-to-business relationships: Compulsory warranty, liability, localized manuals, WEEE electronic waste collection, etc. Life becomes easier when you can credibly show that you only cater to business customers. 
 

Offline robert.rozee

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My guess is "consumer rights". I am not familiar with any legal details, but particularly in the EU there seem to be so many obligations when you sell to consumers, which either don't apply at all or can be negotiated in business-to-business relationships: Compulsory warranty, liability, localized manuals, WEEE electronic waste collection, etc. Life becomes easier when you can credibly show that you only cater to business customers.

well, in this part of the world (NZ and Australia) the likes of R&S would be very unhappy campers! out consumer guarantee laws here dictate that the end consumer can choose to either go back to the retailer, or go back to the manufacturer - this choice is up to the consumer to decide upon. under the law products must "last well" and be "fit for purpose", and any attempt to limit a warranty to a specific fixed term simply does not apply. a manufacturer would be hard pushed to claim that where a firmware update exists that has fixed a bug, said firmware update could be withheld from the consumer.

the only way R&S/Keysight/etc could get around these liabilities is to remove all retail supply channels, and somehow figure out a way to stop 'business-to-business' purchasers from being able to on-sell products. perhaps going for a model where they only lease products to their business customers might work?


cheers,
rob   :-)
 

Offline xrunner

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I wonder why Mr. Paul Denisowski doesn't say anything?

he must be in perhaps the toughest position of all: middle management. :scared: :scared:

Daniel Bogdanoff hardly posts here any more, only to announce a new product. He used to do more, until Keysight decided to warn individuals/hobbyists they don't want their business like they did on their Ebay store. I just checked and it's still true. Keysight Terms of Sale attached.

Keysight Ebay Store

7. General

j.

Products are intended for professional and industrial use only, and
are not suitable for consumer or household use, and Customer
represents and warrants that it is not acquiring Products for such
uses. Consumer or household use, or use outside of the Specification
for the Product, will nullify Sections 2(a), (b) and (e), 4(a) and (b), 5(b)
and 6 of these Terms and void the warranty terms set out, or
incorporated in, Section 3


Note: Daniel is a nice person and a long time ago he helped me get some knobs ordered on the Keysight company system. I know he's in a tight spot with these kinds of terms.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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At least with KS you can get FW updates just by entering fake details into the form & getting straight to a download link
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Offline electr_peter

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At least with KS you can get FW updates just by entering fake details into the form & getting straight to a download link
With KS you can at least see the latest FW number on the website without any forms/logins and then decide to fill forms or login for download. With R&S, you have to login first to even see the latest FW number.
 
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Offline rf-messkopf

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Note: Daniel is a nice person and a long time ago he helped me get some knobs ordered on the Keysight company system. I know he's in a tight spot with these kinds of terms.

This is also true for Rich and Paul from R&S. It is my hope that they both understand that all the whining and nagging going on here is not directed against them personally.

However, I would like to stress that I find R&S's policy on that matter unacceptable.
 
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Offline cte

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It seems like the historic HAMEG service manuals have gone, too.

https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/hameg-archive/HM205-3_english.pdf  -> 404  :--
⚡ To avoid electric shock, ensure that your instrument is correctly grounded.
 
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Offline Someone

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perhaps going for a model where they only lease products to their business customers might work?
Thats is where the market has been moving, Keysight already offer that on most "software" licenses.
 

Offline alonsojar

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After reading most of your comments I cannot find any good reason to hide us the basic information of the devices we own or we consider to purchase (not my case in a future).

Is there any secret contained in the user manuals or in a reference to the lastest firmware level available?
I honestly think that as customers we deserve that, and yes I said customers, because we bought R&S brand, not Farnell, Batronix or any other distributor. I accept that for a REAL service request we should go trough a partner, this is a common policy in many brands, but this last movement is unnecessary, irrespective and irritating imo.
J. Alonso
 

Offline m k

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Keysight Ebay Store

7. General

j.


This store has no inventory available in your location
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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Today I received the following email from news@rohde-schwarz.com:

Quote
Dear XXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for registering to access to the Rohde & Schwarz customer portal. The registration process is currently taking longer than usual due to ongoing system updates. Please rest assured that our team is working to process registrations as quickly as possible.

We truly appreciate your understanding and patience during this time of transition. If you have any immediate questions, please feel free to contact us.

Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz Customer Support

Does that mean they still haven't made up their mind if I'm eligible for the premium content? 8) Weird. Let's hope it all comes good.
 

Online jjoonathan

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The "accept" box is still broken a week later. You can't check it without Inspect Element. I would guess that this is unintentional and another indicator that the whole matter is still mess rather than policy. There's hope!

Btw: customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com is in the trenches with sharepoint links doing their best to smooth it over. If you have R&S kit, better request these before the left hand and the right hand of R&S get on the same page about not wanting anything to do with you. I hope for better, of course, but I'd be a fool to assume it. Now is the time to hedge. Send an email and ask for the manuals and updates relevant to you while you can.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 06:42:51 pm by jjoonathan »
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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The "accept" box is still broken a week later.
As is the page it takes you to request access -it insisted I correct an incomplete postcode but can't enter anything in the box...
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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I would assume the reason is money. As a manufacturer you don't make any money when some hobbyist buys your products second-hand. Therefore you discourage them. And if the hobbyists want to buy a new device they can go a reseller who has to provide also the support. We don't want those pesky little hobbyists wasting our time and costing money.
A lot of hobbyists tinkering with the big boy equipment have day jobs where they also work with this kind of stuff. Pissing the hobbyists off just means pissing off part of your customer base. They'll just remember the company as troublesome and unreliable and pick another brand, because no company wants to deal with that.
 
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Offline alonsojar

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I also received that today, but it's probably an automatic note issued because the time spent since our registration attempt. It can be true there are delays due to mass registration of people with customer enterprise domains.

In my case Ive got a very explicit answer from their 'support' team in Munich explaining that I cannot get support nor registration with them because my generic mail address is against its MYC (meet your customer??) policies.
Let's wait and see, but I don't expect any change. Just my opinión.
 

Offline eTobey

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I also received that today, but it's probably an automatic note issued because the time spent since our registration attempt. It can be true there are delays due to mass registration of people with customer enterprise domains.

In my case Ive got a very explicit answer from their 'support' team in Munich explaining that I cannot get support nor registration with them because my generic mail address is against its MYC (meet your customer??) policies.
Let's wait and see, but I don't expect any change. Just my opinión.

Have you asked them what this MYC is?
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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A lot of hobbyists tinkering with the big boy equipment have day jobs where they also work with this kind of stuff. Pissing the hobbyists off just means pissing off part of your customer base. They'll just remember the company as troublesome and unreliable and pick another brand, because no company wants to deal with that.

100% correct. That's the same reason a lot of schools use specific brands for what they teach on. Companies know that, and they'll give the schools a good deal on the equipment so when those students graduate and work professionally, they'll think of those brands first. Unless they had a problem getting a firmware update or manual for some reason. 🤔
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
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Offline alonsojar

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Quote
Have you asked them what this MYC is?
Sorry, my mistake... That's the exact excerpt of the answer I mentioned:
Quote
Thank you for sending us your inquiry.
We noticed that you've contacted us via an open source email address like @gmail, @outlook etc.
Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process, we need a company email address to verify your affiliation with the company you are registered as employee .....
I googled KYC and this is probably meaning "Know Your Customer", not exactly Meet  :-X
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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Quote
Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process

Some quick googling on "KYC" seems to indicate a relation with EU requirements for banks and financial service providers to prevent money laundering. Not something that seems particularly relevant for test gear manuals and firmware updates.

I still think that this is some kind of "business optimization" done by clueless people, and that the "KYC" thing is just a bullshit buzzword being slapped on it.
 
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Offline eTobey

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Quote
Have you asked them what this MYC is?
Sorry, my mistake... That's the exact excerpt of the answer I mentioned:
Quote

Thank you for sending us your inquiry.
We noticed that you've contacted us via an open source email address like @gmail, @outlook etc.
Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process, we need a company email address to verify your affiliation with the company you are registered as employee .....
I googled KYC and this is probably meaning "Know Your Customer", not exactly Meet  :-X

You should have ASKED. Dont just sit there and be sad about it. Be curious and furious!

I think i found the answer:
You will find that KYC is used to prevent money laundry and scams. So it seems this will be the end of manuals and firmwares of R&S for hobbyist`s...

« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 10:51:00 pm by eTobey »
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline bson

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My guess is "consumer rights". I am not familiar with any legal details, but particularly in the EU there seem to be so many obligations when you sell to consumers, which either don't apply at all or can be negotiated in business-to-business relationships: Compulsory warranty, liability, localized manuals, WEEE electronic waste collection, etc. Life becomes easier when you can credibly show that you only cater to business customers.
This is my guess too.  Documentation and marketing collateral becomes legally binding offers and promises.  A consumer can destroy the frontend of a VNA in ten seconds, then turn around and demand it be fixed or replaced under warranty, pointing to consumer protection laws.  A consumer by their very nature is not supposed to be what in the U.S. is called "an expert in the field", no pressing of buttons or plugging things in is supposed to destroy $30k worth of equipment without warning.  Consumers have rights to third-party repair, legal recourse if a firmware update bricks a device, and so on.  Lots and lots of legal protections that simply don't exist in B2B, where unless it's stipulated in the purchase agreement it doesn't exist.  Industrial customers are expected to be "experts in the field" and able to do their own evaluations and consider their purchases.  Of course, a voltmeter might be more durable, but it's still requires being prepared to handle consumer protection laws, interact with government agencies to resolve complaints, etc.

In the U.S. whether a sale falls under an industrial or consumer rubric depends on the item sold.  In the EU it depends on the buying legal entity, whether it's a private individual specifically.  I think the latter is a problem, as it effectively risks preventing private individuals from buying industrial equipment.  (And T&M is categorized as industrial in the U.S.)  U.S. law also excludes statutory consumer protections from parts and kits, but the EU doesn't and I would fear even more than T&M that if I lived in the EU eventually component distributors would stop wanting to do business with me as well.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 10:50:21 pm by bson »
 
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Offline eTobey

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I still think that this is some kind of "business optimization" done by clueless people, and that the "KYC" thing is just a bullshit buzzword being slapped on it.

More and more is going to be controlled, every bloody receipt has and unique ID if you go to the grocery store, so i think its not just a buzzword...
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline Sensorcat

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Quote
Thank you for sending us your inquiry.
We noticed that you've contacted us via an open source email address like @gmail, @outlook etc.
Due to our B2B business model as well as our obligation to follow a stringent KYC process, we need a company email address to verify your affiliation with the company you are registered as employee .....
I googled KYC and this is probably meaning "Know Your Customer", not exactly Meet  :-X
That's a ridiculously stupid approach from them. This forum with it's mixed hobby/pro audience is the proof that you cannot (any more) have a different reputation with different groups, because people talk and write, crossing all former boundaries. And then they believe that they 'KYC' because the customer has a domain/website. As if they don't know how the internet works. At 2$ or € per month, any provider happily helps you to mimic a company if you like ("On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog!"). They should put their energy into providing products and service to convince all people that their products are still worth the premium. But if buying Keysight or R&S means trouble, why not buying cheap instead? My long-term conclusion, regarding the topic of this thread and many similar observations in the last two decades: The fate of a company in a technology-driven market is sealed when the business people take over. Not that their failure has immediate effect, but they ruin everything in one or two product life cycles, such that the once proud company becomes easy prey for competitors which work as the tech-oriented predecessors did. Sadly, that is not what you learn in an MBA program. And the next quarter, business-wise, will still be fine...
 
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Offline rf-messkopf

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This is my guess too.  Documentation and marketing collateral becomes legally binding offers and promises.  A consumer can destroy the frontend of a VNA in ten seconds, then turn around and demand it be fixed or replaced under warranty, pointing to consumer protection laws.  A consumer by their very nature is not supposed to be what in the U.S. is called "an expert in the field", no pressing of buttons or plugging things in is supposed to destroy $30k worth of equipment without warning.  Consumers have rights to third-party repair, legal recourse if a firmware update bricks a device, and so on.  Lots and lots of legal protections that simply don't exist in B2B, where unless it's stipulated in the purchase agreement it doesn't exist.  Industrial customers are expected to be "experts in the field" and able to do their own evaluations and consider their purchases.  Of course, a voltmeter might be more durable, but it's still requires being prepared to handle consumer protection laws, interact with government agencies to resolve complaints, etc.

In the U.S. whether a sale falls under an industrial or consumer rubric depends on the item sold.  In the EU it depends on the buying legal entity, whether it's a private individual specifically.  I think the latter is a problem, as it effectively risks preventing private individuals from buying industrial equipment.  (And T&M is categorized as industrial in the U.S.)  U.S. law also excludes statutory consumer protections from parts and kits, but the EU doesn't and I would fear even more than T&M that if I lived in the EU eventually component distributors would stop wanting to do business with me as well.

I don't think so. All the consumer rights (like right to return, warranty, right of repair or cancellation etc.) are a thing between the distributor and the buyer. The manufacturer would be largely out of the equation (for cheap stuff from a retailer this could, after all, be a Shenzhen backyard shop). The manufacturer's responsibility is only to deliver a product that has the guaranteed properties and that is marketable within the EU, i.e. has a CE mark which shows that it conforms to the relevant EU directives (and even this duty could be transferable to a retailer or importer). And these requirements would be the same in a B2B contract.

I can still buy all R&S gear that is carried by the distributors, no problem. It is just that R&S has jump me through hoops now to get a manual or a firmware update by requiring me to ask the distributor. R&S can point to them since they are my contractual partner in this case and have to deliver a manual, which is a requirement in the B2B and B2C case alike (notice that the product safety terms are still shipped with the gear as a hardcopy, since this is required by the General Product Safety Regulation). This all has no bearing on consumer rights whatsoever. It is just bad service and it does make R&S gear unattractive for me as there are more convenient options available on the market (Keysight is one example).

 

Offline rf-messkopf

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You will find that KYC is used to prevent money laundry and scams. So it seems this will be the end of manuals and firmwares of R&S for hobbyist`s...

Would you care to explain how I could use my test gear manuals for money laundering?  8) ::)
 
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Offline eTobey

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You will find that KYC is used to prevent money laundry and scams. So it seems this will be the end of manuals and firmwares of R&S for hobbyist`s...

Would you care to explain how I could use my test gear manuals for money laundering?  8) ::)

Indeed that sounds quite stupid... Its more like a roundup way of resolving issues: there will be rarely growing anything else.
Putting B2B in place to comply with KYC and in doing so, destroying other things...  :--
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline m k

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Can it be because of sanctions against Russia?
Some sanctioned functions are included and can't be separated.
So only accounts that are accountable are accepted.
(not very rational idea)
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Online jjoonathan

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Yeah, bureaucracies grow in weird ways and the history leaves an imprint. My favorite example is US Export Control: if you are exporting something mundane, the classification is EAR-99 in category "CATEGORY 0 - NUCLEAR MATERIALS,. FACILITIES, AND ... " It's not because grandma's teapot is suspected to contain enriched plutonium, it's because the first thing to be export controlled was nuclear material so that's where the code for miscellaneous items is. Everything else was just tacked on later.
 

Offline phs

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Was getting same R&S website dysfunction as mikeselectricstuff.  Yesterday got an email from R&S:
...
"
Thank you for registering to access to the Rohde & Schwarz customer portal. The registration process is currently taking longer than usual due to ongoing system updates. Please rest assured that our team is working to process registrations as quickly as possible.
We truly appreciate your understanding and patience during this time of transition. If you have any immediate questions, please feel free to contact us.
Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz Customer Support"
...

This has created a big deal with our partners.  The old adage still holds true -- the customer must come first!  There's no way to tell how any of your customers may affect your sales in the future -- no matter how small they are when they put their trust in you, as a company, and spend their hard-earned money on your products.

Shame on R&S

Edited: Tone of message due to frustration about our wasted time.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2024, 01:23:37 am by phs »
 

Online jjoonathan

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The site is still broken but customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com is sending out sharepoint links.

I'm still worried about where this is headed, but for the moment support was able to get me what I needed.
 
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Offline eTobey

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If they want to change their policy, fine. But if they messed up while doing so, they could just undo it for now (unless their IT is incapable of doing so) and have downloads without account. Then they fix their mistakes, and set downloads to "account only" again.

"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Online jjoonathan

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They approved me for access to LCX, RTO1000, RTO2000 this morning and I can now see documents + firmware on the site itself without emailing anyone. How is it going for everyone else?
 

Offline mahi

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They approved me for access to LCX, RTO1000, RTO2000 this morning and I can now see documents + firmware on the site itself without emailing anyone.

Do you mean you have only access to the devices you own(ed)? You can't, for example, get the user manuals or firmware changelogs for other devices :wtf:? Or is this a temporary situation until R&S gets things sorted out?

Offline KungFuJosh

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It's funny how quickly my future plans for something from the MXO series vanished.
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
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Online jjoonathan

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No, those were the files I specifically requested (and received) and the sections where I specifically clicked on the "Get Access" button. However, it looks like I now have access to everything. I just checked and I can download ZNA and FSW (and RTE and MXO) manuals and firmware even though I never clicked "Get Access" on those pages or sent emails specifically requesting those files.

The rollout was rough but the eventual policy position seems to be more or less aligned with Keysight and LeCroy. I can live with that.

EDIT: mild emphasis
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 11:04:48 pm by jjoonathan »
 

Offline chilternview

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Had an email this morning from R&S saying 'You can now access and enjoy "Product Downloads" immediately'.

So I immediately logged in and sure enough I can download the latest firmware for my RTM3000.
 

Offline Calvin

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Hi,

what does KYC stand for?

Kill Your Chicken  ;D

Calvin
..... it builds character!
 

Online jjoonathan

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I'm just glad that it wasn't MYC, which I assume meant "Mow Your Customer" in reference to Larry "The Lawnmower" Ellison.
 

Offline eTobey

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It would be good, if someone could download all the manuals and put them up somewhere. Especially the old hameg manuals. For the hobbyists...
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline Harry_22

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I didn’t pass face control.
And this is after more than 15 years of dedicated work in the company.
It's very disappointing.

But tomorrow I’ll still go do maintenance to support my favorite company!
 
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Offline skander36

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I saw that on the end of the month (29Nov.-2Dec) is a planned maintenance. Maybe after that the things will go better.
 

Offline mahi

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I wanted to test something on my Rohde & Schwarz HMP4040 for user kaffine in Quad output bench power supply, but thanks to the new bullshit policy I can't download the required software anymore... :palm:

Is there anyone who can download the latest version of R&S HMExplorer and put it online for download? Thank you! → A friendly forum member sent me the installer. Thank you!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2024, 11:43:43 am by mahi »
 

Offline eleguy

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We got denied as well. Sent just a long long (super sarcastic) message asking if they see only big players as their customers or if this is just some sort of "misunderstanding".

Lets see what they respond...
 

Offline eleguy

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It's funny how quickly my future plans for something from the MXO series vanished.

Yep, same here...
 

Online jjoonathan

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Wait, are they actually rejecting people after verifying identity or is the verification process just slow and slightly broken? Verification still sucks (and always will), but the problems described earlier in the thread are no longer happening for me. After verification, I am not locked out of manuals or downloads and they do not require separate permissions for each product. Once I log in, the site is useful again. It is no longer "broken verification, broken website" but "slow verification, working website." Which isn't great, but it's more or less industry standard so  :-// .

What was the wording of the rejection? Just "can't verify business email"? If so, don't lose hope, that's what they said to me at first but they came around.
 

Offline eleguy

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We got rejected after they had "verified" our information. In their (copy/paste apparently) reply they say

Quote
"We regret to inform you that, based on the recent profile assignment, access to the requested service "Product Downloads" is not possible at this time"

The list of valid Finnish companies seems to be provided by Dun & Bradstreet. Our company was not listed but some bigger were. After typing some characters into the field n-times system offered me a way to manually type in company name and so. Then I got the email verification link which succeeded. After than one can login but does not see downloads etc.

But let's see what they respond from their local office. I let you know...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 05:42:08 am by eleguy »
 

Offline gslick

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What was the wording of the rejection? Just "can't verify business email"? If so, don't lose hope, that's what they said to me at first but they came around.

Verifying that a .com email address used for the registration is a valid email address by itself does not appear to be sufficient.

I received the same rejection notice as in the previous reply to my registered .com email address:

Quote
We regret to inform you that, based on the recent profile assignment, access to the requested service "Product Downloads" is not possible at this time. We appreciate your interest and effort.

From the Dun & Bradstreet logo on the registration page, maybe they are using their database of businesses to screen the company name used for registration against legitimate company names in the database as a step beyond just verifying that the registered .com email address doesn't just bounce.

As someone that is now retired and no longer working for a big company, I doubt that trying to plead my case to a human for access would go anywhere.
 

Online jjoonathan

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Yeah, they weren't impressed by the email but they accepted the D&B number I gave them. I put my personal company into Dun & Bradstreet the other year for unrelated reasons, perhaps that is why it went smoother for me. D&B wanted to see tax forms and a phone number that they could call and have someone actually pick up (of course my spam filter blocked them the first time). This was for USA, I don't know if it works the same way everywhere.

Requiring a business credit history to access downloads seems a bit much. Hopefully it's just a result of copying an account creation process optimized for sales on credit, but I suppose we'll see if it sticks around.
 

Online pope

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At least they appreciate your interest and effort.
 
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Online MarkL

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...
From the Dun & Bradstreet logo on the registration page, maybe they are using their database of businesses to screen the company name used for registration against legitimate company names in the database as a step beyond just verifying that the registered .com email address doesn't just bounce.
...
My company has a .com and is a registered LLC in the US.  I just checked and the company appears in D&B.  A few weeks ago my Rohde & Schwarz registration was cancelled and then reactivated after being "verified" in a day or so.

After being a long-time HPAK customer, I am seriously regretting our first investment of $35k into R&S gear, having been duly impressed with the MXO4/5.  That purchase is nothing to them, I know, but it will end there for us.  I won't play these games not knowing if next year maybe we'll be categorized as too small, or maybe insufficient financial information.  And do I dare buy a multi-year service contract for equipment purchased not knowing if they will honor it.

I hope they can at least finish the features on that scope product line and fix a few bugs (to be reported) before they arbitrarily cut me off again.  My mistake for buying futures.  Sometimes I don't learn.
 

Offline skander36

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I don't think that any criteria is about the size of the company, acquisitions from R&S, service contracts or financial information's.
My company under the R&S account was registered has nothing from this list (is a small one, almost insignificant, no service contracts, no financial info) so nothing that can favor access.
I think that their system is under pressure to meet some compliancy with new regulations. Will see how they will deal with that in the near future.
 

Offline Harry_22

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...deleted.
Sorry for non-constructive dialog.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 09:35:10 am by Harry_22 »
 

Offline Harry_22

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Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry.  It is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward.  Because of so many registrations (and how quickly this happened), there have been some hiccups, but we're working to make it easier/better - hopefully we can ease some of the initial restrictions as we learn more.

In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that (we're consumers too - and get frustrated at things like this as well).

In the meantime - if you're a personal account and having trouble getting registered (while we figure out these new requirements), please don't hesitate to reach out to a partner - they are there to help and often have flexibility we do not. 

-Rich


Dear Rich,

I realized that people who care about what is happening in the company have gathered here.

There are many long-standing Сustomers, of whom the company is so proud and who are unhappy with its new policy.

Here only you represent Rohde&Schwarz and therefore our main hope for the company's feedback.
Now it is very important which side you will take in relation to the Customer and protect his right to be independent and to receive the necessary information.

Please help make the company better!
 

Offline mhsprang

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Today I tried to see if new firmware was available for my NGE103B power supply. I do have a registered account at R&S but I now needed to click a button to have my account verified before getting access to "premium content". The verification was rejected.

So, if this is a website problem, it is outrageous that this problem has persisted for over a month. If this is a policy problem, it is outrageous not to inform the existing customers of this policy change. I am left in the dark about why they rejected the verification. I am a business customer with a valid business e-mail address (certificates an all) and a website, doing business for over 25 years.

I e-mailed Paul Denisowski about this. Hopefully I can shed some light on this.
 

Online jjoonathan

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Did you try customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com ? They gave me a few sharepoint links before I convinced them to activate my account.
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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No progress on that matter, I still cannot log in, and I didn't receive a rejection email.

I talked to a R&S representative at their booth at the electronica fair in Munich in November. After explaining that I was blocked from downloads, they said that that problem could be solved and I shouldn't worry, and that they understood the concerns. They took my contact details and later I received a phone call from a salesperson of their Hamburg branch (imagine, on my evil private number). After exchanging some emails (over my evil private address) it was pointed out that for manuals and firmware I should go through a dealer, but that they are happy to help with any technical inquiries. I made clear that I'm not going to buy any more R&S gear under these conditions.

I also talked to some distributors. They said that they are happy to help with downloads but cannot do anything about the situation, obviously. I recommended that they clearly state the problem to R&S, as it is also hindering their sales. No idea if they did.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 03:21:01 pm by rf-messkopf »
 
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Offline 2N3055

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I would point out to this wikipedia page..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohde_%26_Schwarz

Read all the way to the bottom of the page..
It explains everything.
R&S is pretty much a very large military/government contractor and to be that, they have to be very careful about some things and obey by the rules, very strictly.
And since that is their core business, that takes priority.

So basically, like Rich said, without going into why, they are not happy to do this to small/private companies and individuals, but it is a cost of doing "that other" business, that is real breadwinner...

And this change is here to stay. And get even more strict with time, by the looks of the political situation now...
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Online mawyatt

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That's a good point and likely why Keysight has taken their stance wrt the small folks. Add to this the ability of clever adversaries to "reconfigure" standard test equipment into something that has military use/significance and the Export Restriction Regulations begin to make sense.

Here in USA with the new administrations threats of high restrictive tariffs, makes one wonder if now is the time to acquire new foreign TE ::)

Not good for us little folks, but likely will be the way of the future :(

Best
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Offline artag

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Export restrictions rarely make sense. The people who want them will get them through 3rd parties whether you like it or not, and you'll encourage the development of the restricted goods by other vendors.  They're a way to satisfy local political agitation, not a way to keep technology from your enemies.

Look at thermal cameras, severely restricted under ITAR  to stop me in the UK buying Flir cameras capable of better than 15 frames per second. Now I can get 25 frames per second cameras extremely cheap from china. No need for Flir.

 I don't know the actual restrictions or how they've changed over the last few years but I don't see how that's benefited anyone in America, least of all the military.
 

Offline 2N3055

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That's a good point and likely why Keysight has taken their stance wrt the small folks. Add to this the ability of clever adversaries to "reconfigure" standard test equipment into something that has military use/significance and the Export Restriction Regulations begin to make sense.

Here in USA with the new administrations threats of high restrictive tariffs, makes one wonder if now is the time to acquire new foreign TE ::)

Not good for us little folks, but likely will be the way of the future :(

Best

My thinking is that even with 100% tariffs, a Siglent scope is still going to be fraction of the price of comparable Keysight scope. Problem arises only it they outright ban imports completely.  But if things get heated that much, I think there will be bigger problems to worry about.....
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline ebastler

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R&S is pretty much a very large military/government contractor and to be that, they have to be very careful about some things and obey by the rules, very strictly.
And since that is their core business, that takes priority.

So basically, like Rich said, without going into why, they are not happy to do this to small/private companies and individuals, but it is a cost of doing "that other" business, that is real breadwinner...

And this change is here to stay. And get even more strict with time, by the looks of the political situation now...

I don't buy it that they have to stop supporting private customers for whatever compliance reasons. That does not make sense as long as they still sell products to individuals -- which they do, via distributors. Some products for military use have always been restricted, I'm sure, and will continue to be; that's not what is behind the current initiative.

This seems much more like a "too much support cost for too little gain" situation, i.e. a pure cost reduction play. In which case I cannot understand why they restrict access to the download portal and make end users jump through hoops to ultimately obtain the same information via distributors. I could understand a "individuals can't talk to our support staff, that takes too much resources" policy. But if a well-maintained document portal is already online for commercial customers, why not let other customers access it?
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Export restrictions rarely make sense. The people who want them will get them through 3rd parties whether you like it or not, and you'll encourage the development of the restricted goods by other vendors.  They're a way to satisfy local political agitation, not a way to keep technology from your enemies.

Look at thermal cameras, severely restricted under ITAR  to stop me in the UK buying Flir cameras capable of better than 15 frames per second. Now I can get 25 frames per second cameras extremely cheap from china. No need for Flir.

 I don't know the actual restrictions or how they've changed over the last few years but I don't see how that's benefited anyone in America, least of all the military.

Nobody thinks it works. It is just that we need to obey the rules we are imposed upon by countries we live in.
In reality, if you. for example, restrict access in USA to, say, affordable scopes, that will be good business for Keysight but bad for rest of electronics and other industries that use scopes. Apply that logic for all the tools, energy... They will have much larger cost of doing business and they might go out of business or will be severely limited in capabilities.
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
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Offline 2N3055

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R&S is pretty much a very large military/government contractor and to be that, they have to be very careful about some things and obey by the rules, very strictly.
And since that is their core business, that takes priority.

So basically, like Rich said, without going into why, they are not happy to do this to small/private companies and individuals, but it is a cost of doing "that other" business, that is real breadwinner...

And this change is here to stay. And get even more strict with time, by the looks of the political situation now...

I don't buy it that they have to stop supporting private customers for whatever compliance reasons. That does not make sense as long as they still sell products to individuals -- which they do, via distributors. Some products for military use have always been restricted, I'm sure, and will continue to be; that's not what is behind the current initiative.

This seems much more like a "too much support cost for too little gain" situation, i.e. a pure cost reduction play. In which case I cannot understand why they restrict access to the download portal and make end users jump through hoops to ultimately obtain the same information via distributors. I could understand a "individuals can't talk to our support staff, that takes too much resources" policy. But if a well-maintained document portal is already online for commercial customers, why not let other customers access it?

Well, you can buy it or not, but that is definitely part of the reason.
And you are not buying it because you think like an engineer: when you are posed with a problem your instinct is to fix it, solve it. The problem.

Corporations are run by economists and lawyers.
They solve the problem by choosing what solution cost less (economist), and by shifting blame (lawyers).
So if small volume of business to certain market is threatening large profit margin market, they prioritize big, certain money in big chunks with long term contracts over what is basically consumer market with unsure outcomes.
And if fine cost less than solution, they are happy to pay fine and move on.
And don't worry, they will still sell to those "secondary markets", but now they have a distribution contract with some company that specializes in consumer and small business sales. They sign all kinds of security contracts with them, where that OTHER company GUARANTEES they will not sell to those people they are not supposed to. And deal with pesky GDPR or whatnot.

And funny enough, USA still considers encryption technology a controlled technology, and funny enough fact that R&S FW image is encrypted (to prevent decompiling) is enough to trigger export control from these dimwitted bureaucrats.
And since keeping track of what is and what is not OK to distribute is never ending and ever changing maze of rules worth of Kafka making a new book, they simplify.

With government, MIC, military, and large industrial contracts (that are mostly also companies that are also under same rules through their own customers) they do paperwork and sales directly.
Rest is practically outsourced to distributors, through contracts that put all the blame for goods ending up in "wrong hands" to distributors.

See, the goal is not to stop proliferation in "wrong hands". Goal is for somebody else to be guilty, if that happens, and for their hands to stay clean.
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline eleguy

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After exchanging some emails (over my evil private address) it was pointed out that for manuals and firmware I should go through a dealer, but that they are happy to help with any technical inquiries.

Yes, right but how do I now even know when there is a new firmware available? Should I ask the distributor to distribute this half-secret information now and then?
 

Offline dexar

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What I think is most strange about all this is why RS doesn't just explain WHY they choose to go on like this? That would make it less irritating.
 
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Online asmi

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My thinking is that even with 100% tariffs, a Siglent scope is still going to be fraction of the price of comparable Keysight scope. Problem arises only it they outright ban imports completely.
I don't think this move would make a lot of sense, as historically such restrictions only create black market demand for such products. As long as there is a demand for a product, there will be a supply. And like you mentioned, even with added costs for all that overhead, they will still likely end up cheaper.

Offline 2N3055

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My thinking is that even with 100% tariffs, a Siglent scope is still going to be fraction of the price of comparable Keysight scope. Problem arises only it they outright ban imports completely.
I don't think this move would make a lot of sense, as historically such restrictions only create black market demand for such products. As long as there is a demand for a product, there will be a supply. And like you mentioned, even with added costs for all that overhead, they will still likely end up cheaper.

Looking at the world right now, I don't expect them to behave in what you and I would think is logical..
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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Online mawyatt

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And funny enough, USA still considers encryption technology a controlled technology, and funny enough fact that R&S FW image is encrypted (to prevent decompiling) is enough to trigger export control from these dimwitted bureaucrats.
And since keeping track of what is and what is not OK to distribute is never ending and ever changing maze of rules worth of Kafka making a new book, they simplify.

Long ago we had a new over zealous ITAR Security person that got on my case about talking with our Canadian design team about the required Supply Voltages and rise/fall times for the chip interface they were designing, they were doing some of the digital stuff for our new SoC. She said these are forgiven nationals and that information is restricted under ITAR, and we must get prior authorization from Security on what we can say and discuss with them :wtf:

Later we had a major technical meeting with customer is a secure area (SCIF) where no phones, laptops or any electronics are allowed, and she attended to make sure we were in compliance. During the meeting I got up and stopped the meeting and asked everyone to turn in their pencils, pens and paper notebooks to Security. When asked why, I said look at your pencils and pens, some of these were made in China, and some paper notebooks were from China and India, I grabbed our Security persons pen and sure enough it was from China!!  This is clearly a Security Violation and our on site Security Personnell will collect all these items and file a formal Security Violation report and many of you may be asked to return later (many flew in for these meetings) and for a personal Security Interview as required for a Violation!! Needless to say our over zealous Security person didn't attend any more technical meetings and soon left our group ::)

As ridiculous as this sounds, this is how things can get twisted where someone with no common sense is empowered |O

Best 
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Offline 2N3055

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And funny enough, USA still considers encryption technology a controlled technology, and funny enough fact that R&S FW image is encrypted (to prevent decompiling) is enough to trigger export control from these dimwitted bureaucrats.
And since keeping track of what is and what is not OK to distribute is never ending and ever changing maze of rules worth of Kafka making a new book, they simplify.

Long ago we had a new over zealous ITAR Security person that got on my case about talking with our Canadian design team about the required Supply Voltages and rise/fall times for the chip interface they were designing, they were doing some of the digital stuff for our new SoC. She said these are forgiven nationals and that information is restricted under ITAR, and we must get prior authorization from Security on what we can say and discuss with them :wtf:

Later we had a major technical meeting with customer is a secure area (SCIF) where no phones, laptops or any electronics are allowed, and she attended to make sure we were in compliance. During the meeting I got up and stopped the meeting and asked everyone to turn in their pencils, pens and paper notebooks to Security. When asked why, I said look at your pencils and pens, some of these were made in China, and some paper notebooks were from China and India, I grabbed our Security persons pen and sure enough it was from China!!  This is clearly a Security Violation and our on site Security Personnell will collect all these items and file a formal Security Violation report and many of you may be asked to return later (many flew in for these meetings) and for a personal Security Interview as required for a Violation!! Needless to say our over zealous Security person didn't attend any more technical meetings and soon left our group ::)

As ridiculous as this sounds, this is how things can get twisted where someone with no common sense is empowered |O

Best

LOL,
but yes those are exactly things that happen all the time..
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Online coppercone2

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this is like my idea of team america world police sequel with the team taking easy jobs in the ITAR office after getting a PTSD diagnosis


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yi3oyO9IZCc
« Last Edit: December 04, 2024, 09:05:17 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Restricting access to updates is also a clear security risk - instead of getting updates from a trusted source, some people will need to get them from elsewhere, possibly compromised.
 
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Offline eleguy

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Today we got an access. I had to create a support ticket as they did not answer to this question in other channels. In their response they said that "R&S does only B2B business". Maybe we got rejected at the first place thanks to D&B not recognizing us as a company.

Something else. I downloaded firmware with release notes just to see if it works out. It did. Release notes seems to have now text "COMPANY RESTRICTED" at the first page. That could have been there earlier but thanks to what happened at least now it popped out clearly.
 

Offline Kean

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I am a business customer in Australia, and bought my RTB2K and some other gear direct from R&S.  My products are registered under my account, and the name of the sales rep I dealt with is also listed on my account.

A few weeks ago I was able to access downloads, but when I went to download the latest RTB2 user manual yesterday my access was now blocked.  I got an email that my download request was being processed, and a few hours later that access to product downloads was approved.

I just tried again tonight, logging in first and again I got a download restricted error but after logging in again from that page the downloads now work.  So it still seems to be a bit of a mess even for the approved business customers...
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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I cannot help but noting some snippets in the promotional text R&S uses for its 'new' RTB2 osciloscope:

"This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space."

This is a brand new text (12-Nov-2024) in which R&S is actively promoting this instrument for, well, hobbyists.

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/about/news-press/all-news/rohde-schwarz-presents-the-r-s-rtb-2-a-new-entry-level-oscilloscope-with-class-leading-specifications-press-release-detailpage_229356-1529856.html
 
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Offline xrunner

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I cannot help but noting some snippets in the promotional text R&S uses for its 'new' RTB2 osciloscope:

"This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space."

This is a brand new text (12-Nov-2024) in which R&S is actively promoting this instrument for, well, hobbyists.

Big company - not everyone is on the same page yet.  ;)
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Offline ebastler

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I cannot help but noting some snippets in the promotional text R&S uses for its 'new' RTB2 osciloscope

"This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space."

This is a brand new text (12-Nov-2024) in which R&S is actively promoting this instrument for, well, hobbyists.

Well, R&S still sell to hobbyists (via their distributors/resellers). They just don't talk to them anymore.  :--
 
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Offline mhsprang

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Well, R&S still sell to hobbyists (via their distributors/resellers). They just don't talk to them anymore.  :--
Which doesn't need to be a problem if the resellers take over that role. I purchased three R&S instruments from Farnell. They do now offer download of manuals and other stuff, but no firmware updates. So, until that happens, R&S should provide us with updates.
 

Offline mhsprang

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In the mean time, R&S has now rejected my request for access three times and they have not answered my questions about this, filed through their "official" channel. Very bad. If I did that to my customers, I could close my business.
 
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Offline eTobey

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In the mean time, R&S has now rejected my request for access three times and they have not answered my questions about this, filed through their "official" channel. Very bad. If I did that to my customers, I could close my business.

Too bad, that people dont know that they actually have quite some power.
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline tooki

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My access at work was just granted on Tuesday, after originally registering on November 7. Though I can’t see the internal email chain, one of the emails included my R&S sales representative in the CC, so it looks like the internal process might be quite complex.
 

Offline eTobey

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... it looks like the internal process might be quite complex.

That would explain, why they dont want to be bothered by individuals anymore. If so, then i guess, other companys will (have to) follow.
"Sometimes, after talking with a person, you want to pet a dog, wave at a monkey, and take off your hat to an elephant."(Maxim Gorki)

SDS800X HD bugs/issues/workarounds (Updated 17. Feb. 2025)
 

Offline moerm

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In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small.

Nothing shows "we really do value you!" better than a series of barriers and "please provide a photo of you in underwear holding today's newspaper and a photo id", followed by a "request ignored or rejected" message!

Thanks, no, I'll rather stay away from R&S instruments. Please "value" someone else.
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Offline ebastler

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In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small.

You mean, some customers have a big value and others have a small value to R&S?
Thanks for being honest about it.
 
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Offline Hydron

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I'm going to show how I feel about my new value as a small R&S customer when I'm wearing my TE purchasing hat at my day job working for a much larger (no longer) potential customer.

Edit: to be honest even if I weren't personally being screwed by this stupid unexplained policy, needing to jump through hoops to get a manual prior to purchase would put R&S right to the bottom of the list on its own. Got enough shit to do at work without extra BS to wade through.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 06:36:33 pm by Hydron »
 
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Offline tooki

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In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small.

You mean, some customers have a big value and others have a small value to R&S?
Thanks for being honest about it.
That is not what he said.  ::)
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Nothing shows "we really do value you!" better than a series of barriers and "please provide a photo of you in underwear holding today's newspaper and a photo id", followed by a "request ignored or rejected" message!

Maybe it was the underwear photo that earned the rejection? 😉😉
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Offline ebastler

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You mean, some customers have a big value and others have a small value to R&S?
Thanks for being honest about it.
That is not what he said.  ::)

I know. Sadly, he was not honest in his sales & marketing waffle.

 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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I know. Sadly, he was not honest in his sales & marketing waffle.

That's not fair at all. He obviously enjoyed working with the hobbyist crowd. It's not his policy, or his choice what R&S decided to do. He just has to follow the new rules. 🤷
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
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Offline ebastler

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That's not fair at all. He obviously enjoyed working with the hobbyist crowd. It's not his policy, or his choice what R&S decided to do. He just has to follow the new rules. 🤷

I did not expect Rich to change or bend the rules; he obviously can't. But I would have hoped that he can communicate here without that "we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small" blurb. If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?
 
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Online tv84

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If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?

Courtesy? If he had said nothing, you would be here saying that not even "some kind words...".

"Preso por ter cão e preso por não ter." - portuguese expression
 
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That's not fair at all. He obviously enjoyed working with the hobbyist crowd. It's not his policy, or his choice what R&S decided to do. He just has to follow the new rules. 🤷

I did not expect Rich to change or bend the rules; he obviously can't. But I would have hoped that he can communicate here without that "we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small" blurb. If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?

So every Marketing person is not honest? I support KungFuJosh point: unfair comment.
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
 

Offline ebastler

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If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?

Courtesy? If he had said nothing, you would be here saying that not even "some kind words...".
"Preso por ter cão e preso por não ter." - portuguese expression

Oh, come on. There are so many real and sincere statements he could have made:

"It was a business decision not everyone is happy with."
"Unfortunately we are forced to restrict this information for compliance reasons."
"We will give existing and potential individual customers full access to manuals and firmware via our authorized local distributors. A list of these distributors is online here:".

Any of these, and many more, would have been a courtesy in my book. But not his "we will not talk to you anymore, but rest assured that we value you". From the company who gobbled up Hameg, the European brand for hobbyist oscilloscopes.

So every Marketing person is not honest? I support KungFuJosh point: unfair comment.

Please don't twist the words in my mouth. He was not honest in making this particular comment, is what I wrote. I certainly stand by that.
 
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Online Furna

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So every Marketing person is not honest? I support KungFuJosh point: unfair comment.

Please don't twist the words in my mouth. He was not honest in making this particular comment, is what I wrote. I certainly stand by that.

I was provoking you, as you provoked him.
I would then change the phrasing in "his Marketing skills could have been better in this specif occasion" followed by what you just wrote in your last post.
Not honest is unfair.
 :popcorn:
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Please don't twist the words in my mouth. He was not honest in making this particular comment, is what I wrote. I certainly stand by that.

Seriously? You can't say he wasn't honest. Why don't you try quoting everything he said, instead of cherry-picking the part that triggered you:

Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry.  It is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward.  Because of so many registrations (and how quickly this happened), there have been some hiccups, but we're working to make it easier/better - hopefully we can ease some of the initial restrictions as we learn more.

In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that (we're consumers too - and get frustrated at things like this as well).

In the meantime - if you're a personal account and having trouble getting registered (while we figure out these new requirements), please don't hesitate to reach out to a partner - they are there to help and often have flexibility we do not. 

-Rich
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Offline uliano

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The full quote is self contradictory. Honesty can’t be.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Like always, he needs to be carefull what to say, lawyers and all..

For those who are  confused, pay attention to use of word "we".
Who is "we"?
R&S part that made this decision, or people that spent last 20-30 years supporting these same clients... ?

I think his message was clear and honest. And explanatory enough.
Life is not mathematical formula. There is finesse.
In all our discourse, he always was on the side of R&S ( which is loyalty, a noble human trait, so rare nowadays), but never dishonest, or dismissive of any competition. Quite the contrary, he had healthy respect even for newcomers to market, and gave respect where respect was due. Newer a word was uttered that seemed like lie or deliberate misdirect.
In few occasions when he was wrong, he owned it.

That is my impression of a person. I don't know him personally, but that is what I got from what I know.
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
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Offline tooki

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You mean, some customers have a big value and others have a small value to R&S?
Thanks for being honest about it.
That is not what he said.  ::)

I know. Sadly, he was not honest in his sales & marketing waffle.
I really don't think you can say that until we actually know what's going on.

But given that LeCroy did something similar, now R&S, and Keysight cutting off sales to consumers, it very much seems likely to me that there's some regulation that's forcing all these companies to do it. I would not be surprised if we see Tektronix following suit.

If we assume it is indeed some law that is forcing companies to restrict access to products and/or information, then a sales/marketing rep saying "we value our customers, large and small, and are not pleased by the situation" is eminently believable. People who work in sales/marketing tend to be people persons. (I have worked in sales, and have worked in marketing-adjacent industries, too.)

And having worked for a very large corporation (a certain "fruit company") before, in sales, I am absolutely familiar with being in the position of having to present and defend a situation to customers, even though I a) have no control over said situation, and b) don't agree with it. So don't be so quick to dismiss the sales/marketing person's statement as dishonesty.
 

Offline ebastler

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[...] it very much seems likely to me that there's some regulation that's forcing all these companies to do it.
[...] If we assume it is indeed some law that is forcing companies to restrict access to products and/or information,
[...]

Last time I checked, laws and regulations were public in most civilized countries. I am not buying into "some government agency is forcing them to do it, and stopping them from talking about the reasons" -- that's conspiracy BS. And if there are whatever liability concerns, warranty or other consumer rights implications, or just plain cost and overhead savings behind this, I don't see what stops R&S from explaining the reasons.

If people feel very strongly about the "dishonest" attribute, I'll settle for "insincere".  ::)
 

Online Furna

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If people feel very strongly about the "dishonest" attribute, I'll settle for "insincere".  ::)

That sounds more acepptable even if it might not correspond to reality,
Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to fight a company policy.
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
 
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Offline ebastler

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Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to fight a company policy.

If you re-read my posts, you may find that I have exclusively talked about the communication, not about the policy itself. The policy sucks, but I don't blame individual R&S marketing people for its existence or expect them to change it. I do, however, expect them to explain it honestly sincerely.

Which, to be fair, Rich did a bit of -- thanks to Josh for the full quote. But glossing things over with the "we value you all" blurp makes it sound insincere to my ears.

Edit: I have probably replied too many times about this topic already. 'nuff said from my side.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 09:32:31 pm by ebastler »
 

Online Furna

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Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to suggest R&S Marketing dept a better communicaton strategy :-)
Enough for everyone I guees.
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Offline tooki

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[...] it very much seems likely to me that there's some regulation that's forcing all these companies to do it.
[...] If we assume it is indeed some law that is forcing companies to restrict access to products and/or information,
[...]

Last time I checked, laws and regulations were public in most civilized countries. I am not buying into "some government agency is forcing them to do it, and stopping them from talking about the reasons" -- that's conspiracy BS. And if there are whatever liability concerns, warranty or other consumer rights implications, or just plain cost and overhead savings behind this, I don't see what stops R&S from explaining the reasons.
DO NOT put words in my mouth!!!

Nowhere did I say that the laws and regulations are secret, nor that the government has forced them to not talk about the law/regulation.

What I said is that the laws/regulations may restrict access to information. As in technical information. The law/regulation is not the “information” here.

(I will note that there are examples of secret government orders that prohibit disclosure of said order. That isn’t conspiracy theory, it’s established law in many countries. Look at public libraries and telecom/online service providers in USA and warrant canaries. I am not suggesting that is the case here, though we can’t rule it out 100%.)

Though I generally disagree with it,* many, many companies have policies of basically not explaining anything. And legally, they don’t owe it to us (unless part of a lawsuit, in which case it may be subpoenaed). It’s entirely possible, and IMHO likely, that export restrictions of some kind are the root cause here, but it’s up to the company to decide whether or not to explain what the cause is.


Also, do not underestimate the extent to which many companies apply those same principles within. Not only do higher-ups withhold information from customers, many withhold it from their own employees. When I worked at the “fruit stand” years ago, and people asked us “when’s the new [iProduct] coming out?”, I was able to answer in complete honesty “I have no idea, we find out the same time you do”, because that is exactly how it worked. A lot of people seem to think that everyone in a company is equally informed on everything, but that is far from the truth, especially in large ones. R&S isn’t the size of the “fruit company”, but it’s not a little family-owned small business, either. They have around 13,000 employees, which means many divisions and many layers of management. And since some of those divisions do stuff that is defense-adjacent, I’d be very surprised if there weren’t specific regulations in place that affect certain operations.

Another reason companies keep quiet is to make sure nobody accidentally makes a statement that has legal repercussions. That is one reason many companies give their employees specific phrases to use when answering certain questions, because answering the wrong way would create liability of some sort. (For example, that is why AppleCare is not an “extended warranty”, but a “protection plan”, because apparently calling it a warranty would have some legal repercussions. Don’t ask me what they are, as I don’t know, and I’m not a lawyer anyway.) It’s also why many companies funnel all press inquiries to dedicated spokespersons and prohibit employees from talking to the press without prior permission.  It’s also why many chain stores expressly prohibit employees (including store managers!) from posting any signage or documentation other than what is provided by corporate or required by law.


*I say “generally” and not “completely” because I have had enough customer- and user-facing work to experience firsthand how some people will take whatever totally reasonable explanation you give them and then twist your words and try to use it against you. It’s exhausting and time-consuming, and generally goes nowhere as their opinion is already formed and immutable, so I totally understand why many companies choose to just say nothing. Your own behavior in this thread actually kinda steps into that territory, as evidenced by you trying to twist my words into things they did not say.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2024, 11:09:24 am by tooki »
 

Offline gburdzin

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Over the weekend I tried to download the user manual for the NGM202 so that I could get a better idea of its features before potentially purchasing it.  So I ended up filling out the registration information, but then got a response that I needed "approval" for the download.   :wtf:  I've never experienced having to get approval for the download of a bloody user manual before.

And then the best part...Monday morning in my work email inbox..."Rejection of Your Request for Access".  Thanks R&S, I guess I won't be considering the NGM202 for purchase any longer.  :palm:
 
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Offline mhsprang

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@gburdzin: Farnell is one of their dealers and they have 16 documents for the NGM202 available for download, including the manual.
 
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Offline Hydron

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Can they be trusted to host the latest firmware and manual in a timely manner though?
 

Online jjoonathan

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No.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Just updated the firmware on one of my R&S PSU's and had to register my company to get it. They asked for the company name which was searched for on the Dun & Bradstreet I think it was. Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?

It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
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Offline EEVblog

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.

If so, that's brutal. People will be getting thier firmware from a guy in an alley way in a trench coat.
 
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Online tautech

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.

If so, that's brutal. People will be getting thier firmware from a guy in an alley way in a trench coat.
Got all your Siglent stuff up to date ?
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.

If so, that's brutal. People will be getting thier firmware from a guy in an alley way in a trench coat.

That sounds like a fun side gig. 🤔



"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
Best Continuity Tester Ever
 
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Offline mhsprang

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Can they be trusted to host the latest firmware and manual in a timely manner though?
Why not? If they are appointed dealership and are responsible for delivering documentation and firmware, they might lose their dealership if they don't comply.
 

Offline mhsprang

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Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?
It's quite easy to get your company registered at D&B. I once went through that process to be able to supply products to the USCG.
 

Online tautech

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Can they be trusted to host the latest firmware and manual in a timely manner though?
Why not? If they are appointed dealership and are responsible for delivering documentation and firmware, they might lose their dealership if they don't comply.

Imagine the work that might add if you were a multi-brand dealer.  :scared:
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 
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Offline mhsprang

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Imagine the work that might add if you were a multi-brand dealer.  :scared:
The manufacturer may reduce the dealer price in return for the exta work? Or should dealers just sit still and earn their money for just doing that?
 

Offline Hydron

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Yeah well no firmware for the RTB2004 on Farnell site (at least for the 3 different SKUs I checked) so the answer is no, they cannot be trusted to have up to date info.
 
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Online jjoonathan

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Exactly. The answer to "can distributors be trusted to keep docs/fw up to date" is simply and precisely "no." Any words said in addition to "no" make us less accurate, not more accurate.
 
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Offline mhsprang

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But we still do not know why the information is no longer available at R&S and we haven't seen any formal answer or statement as to why this is and if R&S now wants their dealers to be responsible. So, for now this is all speculation.

I have just sent an e-mail to customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com:

Dear Madam, Sir,

Over the last couple of years I purchased three R&S devices and I have registered an account on your web site to be able to download firmware updates.

Since November however, I am no longer able to download of even check for firmware updates. If I log in, I get a screen with a button I need to click to "update my account data to be able to gain access". I have now tried this 5 or 6 times, and each time my request is rejected.

I inquired about this using your Contact form, but I have never received a reply. I hope to get a reply through this channel as to why I no longer have access to firmware and documentation.

Best regards,
Meindert


I am a business with a valid business e-mail and a D&B registration. Let's hope I get an answer this time.
 
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Offline barrds

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It took Farnell more than a month to send me the firmware for my RTM3004 !.

Great service from the R&S distributor.
And... the best of all, every time there is a new release we have to request the service of these people.

Seems to be that R&S is only interested in our money...
 
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Online nctnico

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It took Farnell more than a month to send me the firmware for my RTM3004 !.
Maybe you had no other option but Farnell (and similar companies) would be the last place I'd buy test equipment from as these companies are all about shuffling boxes back & forth without any knowledge of the contents. Good enough to buy parts from but things that need support not so much.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2024, 04:50:17 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline shabaz

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I got nowhere clicking on the button to request access on the R&S website. I waited many weeks, and reattempted, and still got nowhere. Eventually I raised a case, and they sorted it within a week.

I think all businesses that possibly need access, should immediately assign at least one person to chase this up to completion, so that the business isn't left stranded if any of their engineers desperately needs access at short notice, i.e. they always have at least one person to turn to within their firm in an urgent unexpected situation. Definitely not ideal, but is a semi-practical solution until this is made more efficient.
 

Offline jc101

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I raised a query with R&S over a possible bug in the NGM-202. Short reply from them informing me they had closed the support call, and I should contact Farnell instead - which is where I bought it. So raised a query with Farnell, have to see what happens next.
 

Offline stj

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this type of crap will just lead to technical sites in asia/eastern-europe mirroring stuff.
firmware dumps and dissassembly's included - and keygens - EVERYTHING the site owners can associate with the products.

i know this because it has already happened with ham radio and sattelite recievers - among other stuff.
 
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Offline barrds

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You're right, I didn't have other option.

BTW, just a few seconds ago I was able to download the latest firmware (2.5 Gbytes !) for the MXA N9020A spectrum analyzer from the Keysight website without any problems, just giving them the same private email I used with R&S, and my first and last names.
What a difference !
 

Offline tomasA

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I recently got the MXO4 and have the same software issues. Still waiting for my account to get "upgraded" to have access to any firmware/driver updates.  :clap:
 

Offline dc2light

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Been following this thread.  All very odd.
Same issue here.  Multiple pieces of gear all purchased new within the past few years.  Still able to sign into Gloris and view all the latest available software and firmware updates.
When trying to download anything, even a manual I am redirected to the Premium Content page.  Can't log in there.  Denied access multiple times after submitting requests and contacting support told to ask my distributor.  I reached out to one of my distributors and after a month I have had no resolution.  This is really hard to believe.  If this is not resolved soon it will be the last R&S equipment I will purchase.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2025, 03:38:03 am by dc2light »
 
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Offline mhsprang

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[...] and contacting support told to ask my distributor.
Did you contact them at customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com? I did and three days later they confirmed that I had access again.

Meindert
 

Online jjoonathan

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customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com also gave me the documents and firmware I needed before I was fully approved in the system. It's definitely worth an ask.
 

Offline dc2light

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Thanks for your responses.  Hmm, I am not sure if I contacted them from that email address.  Possibly through he contact link on the website.   
Well, I'll gave it one more try at the customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com address and will report back.  |O
 

Offline mhsprang

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Thanks for your responses.  Hmm, I am not sure if I contacted them from that email address.  Possibly through he contact link on the website.   
Well, I'll gave it one more try at the customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com address and will report back.  |O
Ah, yes. That contact link or form... I tried that too. That never resulted in a reply.
 

Offline nicnac117

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Anyone know where the RTB2 V 3 can be found ? ........ XDEVs does not have it on his FTP .
 

Offline squadchannel

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Anyone know where the RTB2 V 3 can be found ? ........ XDEVs does not have it on his FTP .

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg5847303/#msg5847303

 :-+

I just uploaded it to xdevs ftps. it should be uploaded to /docs within a few weeks.
 
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Offline craigus

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The BS canned response from R&S support I got today:

Quote
Due to our business processes, access to the download area is limited to B2B customers only. For private customers, we are working with distributors who will provide firmware and other product collateral in a convenient way. This may still take a bit of time, and we would like to ask for your patience.
In case of an urgent request, please contact your channel partner where you bought the instrument.

If you are a business partner, please share your business contacts with us.

My guess is they got some new MBA moron running support now.

I can't imagine they're doing badly financially and trying to save money by cutting support, as why would they invest the development time to put firmware and docs behind a lock and key.
 

Online voltsandjolts

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Reply and point out this little gem from their website...

Yet still today their website says : "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".
 

Offline InductorX

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I registered with a business email just last week and was given access for downloading firmware, it's weird that apparently it's quite random, or maybe it's only existing accounts that can't/won't be upgraded? I'm inclined not to buy any R&S stuff anymore now.
 

Offline Ecogeek

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Agree, R&S seemed to have gone out of their way to annoy as many customers as possible.  I also agree they must have a new "business" manager who needs to be shown the door before the person does any more damage.
 
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Offline eleguy

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I registered with a business email just last week and was given access for downloading firmware, it's weird that apparently it's quite random, or maybe it's only existing accounts that can't/won't be upgraded? I'm inclined not to buy any R&S stuff anymore now.

Yes indeed very random. We already once got the access but it seems to be now taken away.
 
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Online egonotto

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Hello,

I can't get an updated manual or the latest firmware from Rohde & Schwarz for my RTA4000 purchased in 2019 for almost 12500 €.

They wrote me:
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements.

If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to Customer Support for assistance.

We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your interest.

Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz
"

Best regards
egonotto
 
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Online tv84

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We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your interest.

I find this phrase pretty sad... and I didn't spend $12.5k...
 
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Offline mhsprang

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I would at least reply that apparently you did meet the necessary requirements to purchase a device for €12.500. And ask them how you will now obtain firmware updates.
 
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Offline mhsprang

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Which firmware version do you need? The latest on the R&S website is V1.700, dated 19 December 2021.
 
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Offline Krotow

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Reply and point out this little gem from their website...

Yet still today their website says : "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".

Talking about hypocrisy... Still curious which kind of hobbyists and students might be their customer base. I think no lower than Bruce Wayne, because regular hobbyists and students earn way less to afford something from R&S. Mentioned FPL1003 cost more than my current car when it was new.
 
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Online egonotto

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Which firmware version do you need? The latest on the R&S website is V1.700, dated 19 December 2021.

Hello,

thanks, my RTA4000 has firmware 01.700. So it could be that I already have the latest firmware.

Best regards
egonotto
 

Offline mhsprang

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Hi Egonotto, Ah, bummer. I could have downloaded it for you though.
 
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Online egonotto

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Hello,


thank you, I have now received the user manual version 9. I probably also have the latest firmware 01.700.

Too bad Rohde & Schwarz didn't give it to me.

What I also noticed is that the noise values for the RTA4000 in the 2024 data sheet are worse than in the 2019 data sheet.
RMS noise floor at 1 MΩ (meas.)
1 mV/div 500 MHz 1 MOhm
old: 0.13 mV new: 0.17 mV
1 V/div 500 MHz 1 MOhm
old: 45.6 mV new: 60 mV

Best regards
egonotto

 

Online hfleming

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Reply and point out this little gem from their website...

Yet still today their website says : "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".
that seems to keep on happening… way back in a largish company we went from lots of HP equipment because they deemed us not large enough for support to R&S because they still viewed us large enough to support. Now that I have a small lab at home, at least I still get support from some Chinese companies like Siglent… make of my statement what you will….

Talking about hypocrisy... Still curious which kind of hobbyists and students might be their customer base. I think no lower than Bruce Wayne, because regular hobbyists and students earn way less to afford something from R&S. Mentioned FPL1003 cost more than my current car when it was new.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Hello,
I can't get an updated manual or the latest firmware from Rohde & Schwarz for my RTA4000 purchased in 2019 for almost 12500 €.

They wrote me:
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements.
If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to Customer Support for assistance.
We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your interest.
Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Hello,
I can't get an updated manual or the latest firmware from Rohde & Schwarz for my RTA4000 purchased in 2019 for almost 12500 €.

They wrote me:
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements.
If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to Customer Support for assistance.
We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your interest.
Best regards,
Rohde & Schwarz

In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Someone

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    • send complaints here
In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.
Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.
 

Online nctnico

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In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.
Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.
No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
Best Continuity Tester Ever
 

Offline Someone

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    • send complaints here
In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.
Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.
No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.
:-DD your interpretation is failing, not mine.
Lets take a quote from that specifically linked page:
Quote
A business can be a consumer too. A product or service bought for business use is covered by consumer guarantees, when it meets at least one of the following conditions:
  • it costs less than $100,000 including GST
  • ... [other possible conditions]
My claim that business purchases are protected the same as consumers up to $$$ value, is pretty much exactly what the responsible authority says.

Not sure how much clearer it can be? Do love your dismissal with zero explanation, avoiding anyone possibly addressing your imagined point... do come back with some completely out of context "but but but I'm right" and we'll all have a laugh.
 

Offline mhsprang

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I think the problem is even simpler for R&S if they'd have to explain in a court of law why they think business customers have more rights to updates than private customers. Even if they say they let their dealers be responsible for that, if said dealers do no take that responsibility R&S have to step up to the plate.
 
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Offline tooki

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Reply and point out this little gem from their website...

Yet still today their website says : "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".
that seems to keep on happening… way back in a largish company we went from lots of HP equipment because they deemed us not large enough for support to R&S because they still viewed us large enough to support. Now that I have a small lab at home, at least I still get support from some Chinese companies like Siglent… make of my statement what you will….

Talking about hypocrisy... Still curious which kind of hobbyists and students might be their customer base. I think no lower than Bruce Wayne, because regular hobbyists and students earn way less to afford something from R&S. Mentioned FPL1003 cost more than my current car when it was new.
Please learn how to use quoting correctly, and fix your reply above.
 

Online nctnico

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No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.
You are not going to win that semantic discussion in court for sure. It is possible that there is a list and/or clearer definition somewhere in the law and/or previous court cases which describes the exact meaning of items / products for personal or household use. Oscilloscopes and test equipment in general won't be among that.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Sorama

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No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.
You are not going to win that semantic discussion in court for sure. It is possible that there is a list and/or clearer definition somewhere in the law and/or previous court cases which describes the exact meaning of items / products for personal or household use. Oscilloscopes and test equipment in general won't be among that.

Maybe test equipment is not yet among it, I would not be so sure a judge nowadays does not make it part of it.
There is a general tendancy to protect ‘the customer’.
 

Offline Someone

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No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

The site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.
You are not going to win that semantic discussion in court for sure. It is possible that there is a list and/or clearer definition somewhere in the law and/or previous court cases which describes the exact meaning of items / products for personal or household use. Oscilloscopes and test equipment in general won't be among that.
Perhaps the sky is green? or perhaps you could actually read the legislation you think might possibly support your claim....
https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2004A00109/latest/text/4
Quote from: Competition and Consumer Act 2010, Volume 4, Chapter 1, Section 3
Meaning of consumer
Acquiring goods as a consumer
 (1) A person is taken to have acquired particular goods as a consumer if, and only if:
 (a) the amount paid or payable for the goods, as worked out under subsections (4) to (9), did not exceed:
 (i) $40,000; or
 (ii) if a greater amount is prescribed for the purposes of this paragraph—that greater amount; or
 (b) the goods were of a kind ordinarily acquired for personal, domestic or household use or consumption; or
 (c) the goods consisted of a vehicle or trailer acquired for use principally in the transport of goods on public roads.
 (2) However, subsection (1) does not apply if the person acquired the goods, or held himself or herself out as acquiring the goods:
 (a) for the following purpose:
 (i) for goods other than gift cards—for the purpose of re‑supply;
 (ii) for gift cards—for the purpose of re‑supply in trade or commerce; or
 (b) for the purpose of using them up or transforming them, in trade or commerce:
 (i) in the course of a process of production or manufacture; or
 (ii) in the course of repairing or treating other goods or fixtures on land.

So still wrong, and now relying on imagining a different reality where the laws (you claimed to know but didn't bother to read) are different to this world. Goods are covered regardless of its intended distinction between consumer or business supply (as in clause 2) if any of the other clauses apply. No need to argue on that distinction when you only need to fulfil one of the clauses of subsection 1.

Which is what I said from the start:
In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.
Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.
No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.
:-DD your interpretation is failing, not mine.
Lets take a quote from that specifically linked page:
Quote
A business can be a consumer too. A product or service bought for business use is covered by consumer guarantees, when it meets at least one of the following conditions:
  • it costs less than $100,000 including GST
  • ... [other possible conditions]
My claim that business purchases are protected the same as consumers up to $$$ value, is pretty much exactly what the responsible authority says.

Not sure how much clearer it can be? Do love your dismissal with zero explanation, avoiding anyone possibly addressing your imagined point... do come back with some completely out of context "but but but I'm right" and we'll all have a laugh.
... and as predicted you're off onto a completely different point trying to hold onto the "but but but I'm right"
 
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Online egonotto

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Hello,

I contacted Rohde & Schwarz again after I had received the rejection from Rohde & Schwarz and before I had received the current manual from friendly people.
I asked how I could get the data I wanted and whether I could still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices.

Today I received an answer. The requested files were sent to me by e-mail.
Thank you for that.
I was also told that Rohde & Schwarz no longer sells directly to private individuals, but that I can still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices via Batronix, for example.

Best regards
egonotto
 

Offline thm_w

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"Please note: The Product Downloads Center is exclusively available for accounts with a corporate email address."
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements."

Registered with company email, denied. Company was in the D&B list on the site, so that alone isn't enough. There is some sort of manual verification taking place after you apply, probably in the German time zone.
Trying again now with another company email domain.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 
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Offline EEVblog

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I was also told that Rohde & Schwarz no longer sells directly to private individuals, but that I can still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices via Batronix, for example.

No surprise there, very common in the industry.
 

Offline EEVblog

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In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.
Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.
No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

No way you wouldn't win that one in Australia, our consumer protection laws are one of the strictest in the world.
If you legally purchased the product in Australia as an individual and the company refuses to give you support because you aren't a business, they will lose.
The only way they could possibly weasle oiut of this is if the authorised distrubutor who you bought it from had a very specific policy and vetter sales to professional business customers only.
If they let you just freely buy as a consumer then you are covered under consumer law.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2025, 09:42:17 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline mhsprang

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I was also told that Rohde & Schwarz no longer sells directly to private individuals, but that I can still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices via Batronix, for example.

No surprise there, very common in the industry.
And according to R&S policy, Batronix would then be responsible for publishing manuals and firmware updates. But there's nothing to be found there. Neither at Farnell.com, who also sell R&S.
 
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Offline mhsprang

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"Please note: The Product Downloads Center is exclusively available for accounts with a corporate email address."
"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements."

Registered with company email, denied. Company was in the D&B list on the site, so that alone isn't enough. There is some sort of manual verification taking place after you apply, probably in the German time zone.
Trying again now with another company email domain.
I had the same problem: company and all. Official domain. D&B registration. No joy at R&S. So I wrote to them at their support e-mail and someone fixed it.
 
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Offline rwhale

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Sounds like the problem I had with KS. My E4404b (Which I bought new from them with most options) needed a new memory/battery. I thought ah, I'll just order it from their web store and be done. Nope. Wouldn't sell it to me because of my email address. I appealed, still nope. Bought it from Digikey for much less. All they dis is insure I'll never buy another instrument from them again. Yet, they still send me emails trying to sell me new equipment...at the same address. Go figure.

Russ
 
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Online nctnico

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In Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.
And they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.
Not in Australia:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees
Businesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.
No. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

No way you wouldn't win that one in Australia, our consumer protection laws are one of the strictest in the world.
If you legally purchased the product in Australia as an individual and the company refuses to give you support because you aren't a business, they will lose.
The only way they could possibly weasle oiut of this is if the authorised distrubutor who you bought it from had a very specific policy and vetter sales to professional business customers only.
If they let you just freely buy as a consumer then you are covered under consumer law.
Well, the context was buying as a business which also tends to fall under consumer law when the conditions apply. But -surprisingly- the conditions are ORed instead of ANDed. There is a very high monetary limit (40k AUD or something) OR the item has to be a household item OR -some other conditions-. Read it quickly and it makes more logical sense to interpret the conditions as ANDed because who is going to buy a 40k AUD coffee maker?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2025, 12:03:58 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline bson

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Well, the context was buying as a business which also tends to fall under consumer law when the conditions apply. But -surprisingly- the conditions are ORed instead of ANDed. There is a very high monetary limit (40k AUD or something) OR the item has to be a household item OR -some other conditions-. Read it quickly and it makes more logical sense to interpret the conditions as ANDed because who is going to buy a 40k AUD coffee maker?
Well, it also starts with "A person..."  Is a company a person, as opposed to merely a legal entity, in this context?
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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who is going to buy a 40k AUD coffee maker?

I'm sure more than you'd expect. 😉
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright
Best Continuity Tester Ever
 

Offline Someone

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Well, the context was buying as a business which also tends to fall under consumer law when the conditions apply. But -surprisingly- the conditions are ORed instead of ANDed. There is a very high monetary limit (40k AUD or something) OR the item has to be a household item OR -some other conditions-. Read it quickly and it makes more logical sense to interpret the conditions as ANDed because who is going to buy a 40k AUD coffee maker?
Well, it also starts with "A person..."  Is a company a person, as opposed to merely a legal entity, in this context?
Ah, that old chestnut:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/01/07/are-corporations-people-in-the-carpool-lane/
https://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/01/can-you-carpool-with-a-corporation.html
 
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