Author Topic: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)  (Read 27865 times)

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Offline mjs

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2015, 05:52:21 am »
Out of 14 units 4 were non-operational and only 2 had the IQ units and of those one was dead. I hope to get that up and running by switching modules from the non-operational ones. Some of the non-operational ones booted to Win2000 directly, but I hope to re-image the HDDs.

And here are the pictures (CRTU-G), without any comments at the moment:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xxf8h9d09yxxck3/AADl0nlbyKoyAAnRsjtPZwU4a?dl=0
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2015, 06:15:16 am »
Out of 14 units 4 were non-operational and only 2 had the IQ units and of those one was dead. I hope to get that up and running by switching modules from the non-operational ones.

That's unfortunate. If its completely dead then it could be the PSU, as this was the part that failed most often in the CMU200 (and therefore probably also in the CRTU). Not that the overall failure rate was high, though, but from the few defects I've seen with these units a large part was due to a dead PSU.

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Some of the non-operational ones booted to Win2000 directly, but I hope to re-image the HDDs.

The good thing with R&S kit like this is that, unlike with most test instruments made by other manufacturers, the calibration data is stored in an EEPROM in the individual modules and not on the hard disk, which means that the disks contain no hardware-specific data, and can be moved around freely between devices of similar type.

Also, the software unlocks work by software install, not by hardware, so the unlocked options move with the hard disk into another device.

 

Offline tmbinc

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2015, 10:05:33 am »
mjs, nice photos! Thank you very much! Could you maybe provider a better quality / higher resolution picture of the diagram (IMG_0896.jpg)?

For the CRTU-G, I was expecting a digital (or analog?) connection between slot A7 (digital board) and A6/A8 (CRTU-USU/CRTU-B5, the GSM signalling units). I can't see that in the pictures, but maybe I didn't look good enough. Any clue where/what that may be?

Also, what's the RJ45 (yeayeah 8P8C) cable that goes from one of the USUs to the frontpanel(?)?
 

Online Howardlong

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2015, 10:22:34 am »
Out of 14 units 4 were non-operational and only 2 had the IQ units and of those one was dead. I hope to get that up and running by switching modules from the non-operational ones. Some of the non-operational ones booted to Win2000 directly, but I hope to re-image the HDDs.

And here are the pictures (CRTU-G), without any comments at the moment:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xxf8h9d09yxxck3/AADl0nlbyKoyAAnRsjtPZwU4a?dl=0

Advanced Engineering Mathematics by Stroud, blimey is that still THE text? I finally threw out my 30 year old copy last year.
 

Offline KJDS

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2015, 10:41:49 am »

Advanced Engineering Mathematics by Stroud, blimey is that still THE text? I finally threw out my 30 year old copy last year.

That looks more like Kreysig than Stroud. I've still got my Kreysig, mostly for posterity rather than practicality, I can't remember the last time I looked at it.

Offline mjs

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2015, 11:14:02 am »
The diagram is just wiring picture. I think we did not yet open up the digital board (A7, see p5 in http://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_news_from_rs/magazin/Neues171_englisch_72dpi.pdf) , where the coaxes from the RF board end up to. I believe the connection from there to link handler is digital in the backplane.

More pictures of the boards: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zgwzbpt91o9p1it/AACC-1YIhZs6Y-2iTAEGV1kCa?dl=0

The book is Kreyszig, used it last time 4 years ago to recall some matrix calculations.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 07:06:49 pm by mjs »
 

Online Howardlong

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2015, 08:33:37 am »

Advanced Engineering Mathematics by Stroud, blimey is that still THE text? I finally threw out my 30 year old copy last year.

That looks more like Kreysig than Stroud. I've still got my Kreysig, mostly for posterity rather than practicality, I can't remember the last time I looked at it.

I stand corrected! Both Stoud and Kreyszig were indeed both favoured texts. One was favoured by the profs at my alma mater, the other by the students, can't remember which way around it was though.
 

Offline tmbinc

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2015, 04:07:58 pm »
I received my units now. FWIW, on the HDD I found documentation (including a service manual, yay, though it's not ultra specific), and also drive images should I ever have to restore the HDD.

What I'm slightly unclear on is the I/Q IN/OUT CH1/CH2 connectors on the back. They are present even without Option B7. Do they actually work? What's the difference between them, and the BNC connectors that Option B7 adds? For the BNC connectors, the manual is always very clear that they are only present with B7. For the IQ IN/OUT, there is no such designation.

mjs, did you follow the connection for these connectors? I can't see them either in the service manual nor in the wiring diagram inside the device. I haven't yet fully disassembled mine (but I'll do so if required).
 

Offline mjs

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2015, 05:07:48 am »
On both of the units with the IQ interface, the top row IF connectors are present. I did not trace the DB15 IQ connectors, which are present on all units.My guess is that they're routed on the main board.

Since the system works using IF between the RF and digital boards, my guess is that the IQ signals are not available anywhere without the B7 option. The IF signals could be easily extracted from the internal coax cables, though.

I've got the unit almost completely in parts save for the PSU and main board (and casing around the BNC connectors), so just let me know if there is a specific part you'd like to get hires photos from!
 

Online mzzj

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2015, 12:04:11 pm »
Didn't manage to boot my CRTU's from usb stick so I transplanted hdd to  old laptop that was willing to boot from usb.
Nothing much intresting so far on win2k side like others already fiqured out.

Used http://pogostick.net/~pnh/ntpasswd/ to reset windows passwords. Now copying documentation and drive images for backup.
 

Offline tmbinc

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2015, 02:20:56 pm »
By the way, if you have the two CRTU-USU installed (i.e. CRTU-G, not -W), one of them (the one with the Network cable) comes with a little surprise - telnet 10.20.30.40 from the Windows installation. :)
 

Offline mjs

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2015, 04:08:20 pm »
Indeed, there's a penguin inside!
 

Offline mjs

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2015, 05:41:23 pm »
It seems that some of the units have CMU and some CRTU software. The units with 'Universal Radio Communication Tester CMU' splash screen seem to have FM and DSB modulation in addition to AM+SSB. (Tested with just two units, though).
 

Offline tmbinc

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2015, 07:37:15 pm »
Interesting; though the unit I tested shows indeed the CMU screen, but still doesn't have FM+DSB.

Is this also software V3.23? All my units have that, not sure if there is any other. Does it have any other FGROUPs than AUDIO, CRTU-RU, GSM, RF? (Press alt-F4, then go into "FGROUP" directory). Otherwise, maybe it's a software option?

By the way, should the CRTU-RU, in DOS OPSW, support any GSM signalling tests? Only the non-signalling ones show up here.
 

Offline mjs

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2015, 08:19:14 pm »
The DSB+FM may have something to do with the B7 IQ interface; the next unit that had the CMU splash screen with B5+B6 GSM signaling did not have those. I'll check the FGROUPs tomorrow. I've only seen non-signalling references in the DOS OPSW.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2015, 09:19:31 am »
The DSB+FM may have something to do with the B7 IQ interface

DSB+FM modulation has nothing to do with the I/Q option.

Interesting; though the unit I tested shows indeed the CMU screen, but still doesn't have FM+DSB.

Is this also software V3.23?

Software 3.23 is pretty ancient, the current version is 5.21, and between 3.x and 4.x a lot of functionality was added, which if I remember right includes DSB+FM modulation (which does work with 4.x).

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By the way, should the CRTU-RU, in DOS OPSW, support any GSM signalling tests? Only the non-signalling ones show up here.

All CRTUs support Signalling Tests in DOS mode, however most of them don't have the necessary licenses (because Signalling is done under Windows).
 

Offline tmbinc

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2015, 12:24:21 pm »
Wuerstchenhund,

the non-working signalling tests under DOS are not a limit of the license, but are caused by the CRTU-USU not being supported (at least in 4.35; I haven't tried anything newer) as a link handler. The "2G_Signalling" feature (that enables the signalling tests) requires CMU-B21Var02 or CMU-B54Var14 to be present; the CRTU-B5* is not sufficient.

Or have you ever seen a CRTU with the signalling features enabled? If so, I'd be curious about the hardware/software configuration.

And yes, DSB+FM was added in 4.x; it's unrelated to the IQ board. However, the reason why most of the non-B7 equipped CRTUs ship with V3.23 is that the Windows-based software isn't compatible with DOS OPSW > 4.0. While it doesn't use any of the DOS components, it relies on the firmware of the various boards having a specific version. (The firmware is updated together with the DOS OPSW; i.e. if you switch from V3.23 to something else, the board firmwares get updated to a version that's incompatible with the signalling tests in windows).

Now, the devices with B7 are mostly used together with a CRTU-PU (WCMDA); in that configuration, the CRTU-RU actually runs the DOS OPSW (which does little more than just setting RX and TX frequency, and configure the baseband/IF paths); all the Windows-based software runs on the -PU. In that case, the DOS OPSW on the -RU can be a newer version.

So - that's the reason why B7-equipped devices usually come with a more recent firmware than the non-B7 equipped devices. (Of course there may be configurations where you have both the USUs and B7, for example for fading simulation, but the majority of the CRTU-RUs come with _either_ B7 _or_ the link handlers.)
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2015, 02:35:16 pm »
Or have you ever seen a CRTU with the signalling features enabled? If so, I'd be curious about the hardware/software configuration.

I haven't, but a while ago I talked with a fellow engineer working in the mobile sector who worked for a very large cell phone manufacturer and knows these boxes pretty well, and he mentioned that the CRTU can actually do Signalling tests under DOS, although it needs certain licenses and a specific software. I didn't inquire further as I had no intention to do Signalling tests with my CRTU.

Quote
And yes, DSB+FM was added in 4.x; it's unrelated to the IQ board. However, the reason why most of the non-B7 equipped CRTUs ship with V3.23 is that the Windows-based software isn't compatible with DOS OPSW > 4.0.

Well, my CRTU already came with Windows software supporting 4.x installed, although now that I've upgraded the DOS part to 5.21 I get the software version error message when starting the Windows partition as I haven't yet installed updates for the Windows software that support 5.x (and frankly I can't really be arsed to).

I guess for most people here the Windows software is pretty irrelevant anyways, as the general test functionality is only available under DOS. Maybe some day someone will write some Windows programs that use the CRTU drivers to do something useful with the hardware under Windows, but until then the Windows partition is pretty useless.
 

Offline davorin

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2015, 02:42:49 pm »
Are there any benefits going from 4.34 DOS to 5.21 DOS version?

 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2015, 03:11:55 pm »
Are there any benefits going from 4.34 DOS to 5.21 DOS version?

It depends I guess. The jump from 3.x to 4.x is certainly bigger functionality-wise, and definitely worth it.

As to 5.21, it depends. I can't remember what's in it exactly but's apparently mostly improvements (for additional testing cell phone functionality, i.e. HSUPA, Bluetooth), plus some improvements in the basic functionality.
 

Offline davorin

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2015, 03:16:00 pm »
Guess Bluetooth would need a separate license...would be interesting though ;-)

 

Offline tmbinc

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2015, 03:42:18 pm »
Bluetooth needs additional hardware, as far as I'm aware. It's made for the Rohde+Schwarz CBT32 device, as far as I understand, which has dedicated bluetooth hardware. I assume same for the WCMDA support; I would be surprised if the CRTU-USU could actually be made to support WCDMA given that they usually have the CRTU-PU for that.

I'd love to hear otherwise, but I don't think there are software options for the CRTU that meaningfully extend functionality.
 

Offline davorin

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2015, 03:44:40 pm »
Well for me it has anyway enough functionality for that price ;-)

Though still digging why GPIB doesn't work on Linux but on Windows....(o;

 

Offline ZL1CVD

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2016, 12:18:29 pm »
..and most importantly, VLC 1.1.11 runs on 2K + a standard USB audio stick = Game Of Thrones!!
 

Online MasterTech

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Re: Anyone with R&S CRTU-RU experience? (WTF is this thing anyways...)
« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2016, 02:23:12 pm »
..and most importantly, VLC 1.1.11 runs on 2K + a standard USB audio stick = Game Of Thrones!!
Rohde&S would be proud of the final use of that equipmnet :-DD
 
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