Products > Test Equipment
Are 'premium' scope brands still justified?
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tautech:

--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 16, 2024, 10:27:28 pm ---Although I have to say, after a little thought, I would have to cancel the 2000Xplus again, a clear improvement on the 800X HD would in fact only be the 2000X HD.
There is nothing in between, not even the 1000X HD.
Main reason:
Guess what...

--- End quote ---
1. Low noise
2. Full memory management
Martin72:
1. ERES not only as a mathfunction
2. Low noise
3. Full memory management
 ;)
Electro Fan:

--- Quote from: tautech on April 16, 2024, 10:29:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 16, 2024, 10:27:28 pm ---Although I have to say, after a little thought, I would have to cancel the 2000Xplus again, a clear improvement on the 800X HD would in fact only be the 2000X HD.
There is nothing in between, not even the 1000X HD.
Main reason:
Guess what...

--- End quote ---
1. Low noise
2. Full memory management

--- End quote ---

From the spec sheets:
2000X HD Jitter CH1~CH4  <10 ps rms (typical), Ext <200 ps rms
1000X HD Jitter CH1~CH4 <100 ps, Ext <200 ps rms
  800X HD Jitter CH1~CH4 <100 ps, Ext na

https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/03/SDS2000X-HD_Datasheet_EN01A.pdf
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/SDS1000X-HD_Datasheet_EN01F.pdf
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/SDS800X-HD_Datasheet_EN01C.pdf
Performa01:

--- Quote from: Electro Fan on April 16, 2024, 11:46:47 pm ---From the spec sheets:
2000X HD Jitter CH1~CH4  <10 ps rms (typical), Ext <200 ps rms
1000X HD Jitter CH1~CH4 <100 ps, Ext <200 ps rms
  800X HD Jitter CH1~CH4 <100 ps, Ext na

https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/03/SDS2000X-HD_Datasheet_EN01A.pdf
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/SDS1000X-HD_Datasheet_EN01F.pdf
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/SDS800X-HD_Datasheet_EN01C.pdf

--- End quote ---

As explained several times already, the low-end device jitter specs are just some house numbers that can never be violated. By contrast, e.g. the SDS2000X HD provides true specifications for that property - and very conservative ones, as the actual jitter is still some five times better.

In actual fact, we can derive the trigger jitter from the peak detect specification, since this indicates the sample rate in the trigger path. As this is 2 ns on the SDS800X HD vs. 1 ns on the SDS2000X HD, we can expect the trigger jitter to be twice as high. Consequently, a proper specification would read <20 ps RMS (typical).

Actually, my measurement was a bit higher (almost 5 ps), but that's because the lower bandwidth of the 800 series forced me to use a test signal with lower slew rate.

Here is my measurement for the SDS824X HD in Reply #2, Section "Trigger Jitter":
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293747/#msg5293747


Keysight DanielBogdanoff:

--- Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 13, 2024, 11:21:41 am ---Or have the 'big boys' been caught napping, and are now about to find you can't charge £10k+ for obsolete hardware any more?

--- End quote ---

We're definitely not napping, and naturally we keep an eye on this part of the scopes market. There's a lot of technology "trickle down" that happens with our chip architectures (both processors and ADC/front ends). So, it's common for us to push the envelope with a super high end scope (like a UXR) and then leverage those learnings into the next chipsets.

On the chip front, you'll also see the "big boys" doing their own ICs but what's described in this thread as "B brands" are typically using off-the-shelf components and are stuck at that level of performance.

Ultimately I wouldn't call them "B brands" but personally think of them more as "value" brands. They will always be the cheapest for a given bandwidth, even if "A brands" dropped prices the "B brands" would undercut. But, if you buy one that's what you get. I could get an Ender 3 3d printer for $100, but there's a reason I paid 10x for my Bambu.

There is also what I think of as "market trickle up" - for example what options/capabilities are included as "standard." Back at release of this generation of Agilent/Keysight scopes you had to pay for options that are now standard, mostly due to market pressure of including certain decodes (for example) for free.

Personally, as someone who uses/has used basically all the scopes, using some brand's scopes annoys me...
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