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| Are 'premium' scope brands still justified? |
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| Antonio90:
--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 18, 2024, 09:20:57 am --- --- Quote ---Something like a '3500G' series, based on the 3000G platform but updated with a 12 bit front end, 100 M points / channel, and priced at a level which isn't totally blind to what's been coming out of China the last few years? --- End quote --- Can you afford to ignore the cheaper competition in the long term? --- End quote --- That's a very interesting point. And raises the question as to why the price difference really. As a company, buying for more than needed is shooting yourself in the foot, but relying fully on foreign production because it is cheaper is setting yourself up to be shot in the head later. This would be a very good argument, I think, if it wasn't for the A brands moving production to the east too. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 18, 2024, 09:07:22 am --- --- Quote from: nctnico on April 18, 2024, 09:00:42 am ---Still, one of the rather unique features of the Keysight oscilloscopes is that these can decode across segments. When recording a bunch of segments, the decode table shows data from all segments in one so you can hop through the various segments. On other oscilloscopes I've seen/used so far you'll need to go through each segment and look at the decoded data for that specific segment; there is typically not an easy way to aggregate all decoded data. --- End quote --- That is a good point. But if you need to do that a lot, Picoscope does that and to level no embedded scope does. --- End quote --- AFAIK Picoscope has no protocol triggering and when you need to do really long term decodes, then triggering is your first filtering stage to get rid of excess data. Think about debugging a rare (once in an hour or longer) problem with a specific device / access pattern on a I2C or SPI bus. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: Antonio90 on April 18, 2024, 09:39:22 am --- --- Quote from: Martin72 on April 18, 2024, 09:20:57 am --- --- Quote ---Something like a '3500G' series, based on the 3000G platform but updated with a 12 bit front end, 100 M points / channel, and priced at a level which isn't totally blind to what's been coming out of China the last few years? --- End quote --- Can you afford to ignore the cheaper competition in the long term? --- End quote --- That's a very interesting point. And raises the question as to why the price difference really. --- End quote --- You pay for pedigree (as in having decades of knowledge on how to build particular test equipment), proper product/firmware regression testing and long term support. When I ask Keysight a really tough question about the internals of a piece of equipment I bought 10 years ago (in order to assess whether the quality of measurement results can be impacted by a potential failure) I get a good, detailed answer. The price of test equipment is not in the hardware, it is in the engineering and support. All major test equipment manufacturers are producing in low wage countries. |
| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: nctnico on April 18, 2024, 10:16:57 am --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on April 18, 2024, 09:07:22 am --- --- Quote from: nctnico on April 18, 2024, 09:00:42 am ---Still, one of the rather unique features of the Keysight oscilloscopes is that these can decode across segments. When recording a bunch of segments, the decode table shows data from all segments in one so you can hop through the various segments. On other oscilloscopes I've seen/used so far you'll need to go through each segment and look at the decoded data for that specific segment; there is typically not an easy way to aggregate all decoded data. --- End quote --- That is a good point. But if you need to do that a lot, Picoscope does that and to level no embedded scope does. --- End quote --- AFAIK Picoscope has no protocol triggering and when you need to do really long term decodes, then triggering is your first filtering stage to get rid of excess data. Think about debugging a rare (once in an hour or longer) problem with a specific device / access pattern on a I2C or SPI bus. --- End quote --- You are correct. So doesn't Saelae. But Picoscope can capture 10s of thousands of packets and filter them afterwards. But one wrong packet in 2 hours is perfectly manageable without decoding across segments. 20-30 packets a day are handled with history and manual run through. Segments + trigger mask are used when you have fast incoming packets, where you want to ignore millions and capture thousands. |
| tszaboo:
--- Quote from: Martin72 on April 18, 2024, 09:20:57 am --- --- Quote ---Something like a '3500G' series, based on the 3000G platform but updated with a 12 bit front end, 100 M points / channel, and priced at a level which isn't totally blind to what's been coming out of China the last few years? --- End quote --- If you have dominated the market for decades together with 2...3 others, I can well imagine that you can react rather sluggishly to the cheaper competition from the East. Or want to. --- End quote --- Honestly, why would they care about the low end market? They can sell an active probe with more profit on it than a DSOX1000 or 2000 scope, and people will buy those in pairs. Some high end several GHz ones will turn more profit than a dozen scope. --- Quote from: Antonio90 on April 18, 2024, 09:39:22 am --- --- Quote from: Martin72 on April 18, 2024, 09:20:57 am --- --- Quote ---Something like a '3500G' series, based on the 3000G platform but updated with a 12 bit front end, 100 M points / channel, and priced at a level which isn't totally blind to what's been coming out of China the last few years? --- End quote --- Can you afford to ignore the cheaper competition in the long term? --- End quote --- That's a very interesting point. And raises the question as to why the price difference really. As a company, buying for more than needed is shooting yourself in the foot, but relying fully on foreign production because it is cheaper is setting yourself up to be shot in the head later. This would be a very good argument, I think, if it wasn't for the A brands moving production to the east too. --- End quote --- You compare the list price of a product to a price which is made with negotiations in mind. If you need to buy an expensive scope you are either using taxpayer's money, and pay the list price because nobody cares. Or you are trying to make profit, and negotiate the price down from the list price. |
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