Author Topic: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...  (Read 23006 times)

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Offline colorado.rob

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2019, 06:18:12 pm »
important to say the 350MHz can not be upgraded to 1GHz

Does that mean that the 350MHz version can be upgraded to 500MHz?  And that the 500MHz version can be upgraded to 1GHz?

What I really want is an SDS2204X-E, mostly because the LA and protocol decoders on the SDS2204X did not meet expectations and do not meet my needs.
 

Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2019, 07:08:15 pm »
Does that mean that the 350MHz version can be upgraded to 500MHz?  And that the 500MHz version can be upgraded to 1GHz?
Options are listed in the datasheet. There's the explicit phrase there "SDS5034X/SDS5032X cannot be upgraded to SDS5104X/SDS5102X".
So yes, you can update from 350MHz to 500MHz and from 500MHz to 1GHz but not from 350MHz to 1GHz.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 07:09:51 pm by 0xdeadbeef »
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Online tautech

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2019, 07:22:32 pm »
So let's see if there will be some kind of promotion or whatever. I still think that 6k€ is too much for a Siglent with so-so frontend and much worse support, probe availability and resell value compared to an A brand.
Why do you think/imagine this to be the case ?  :-//

Did you not see this ?
Siglent has always been open for requests from competent folks............

Regarding the “other little things”, rest assured that they are seriously considered (by Siglent)..............
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Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2019, 07:31:10 pm »
Well, don't get me wrong but I can't imagine that the Siglent support can compete with e.g. LeCroy at company level. Like our local LeCroy sales guy came to our department several times to present new scopes, gave us replacement handles for old scopes for free etc. Besides, bigger companies get discounts and if you ask for some additional discount like some decoders included for free, you usually get that as well. Stuff like this.
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Online tautech

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2019, 07:51:45 pm »
Well, don't get me wrong but I can't imagine that the Siglent support can compete with e.g. LeCroy at company level. Like our local LeCroy sales guy came to our department several times to present new scopes, gave us replacement handles for old scopes for free etc. Besides, bigger companies get discounts and if you ask for some additional discount like some decoders included for free, you usually get that as well. Stuff like this.
Siglent support is branch based, Hamburg, Ohio or Shenzhen.
The real brand face to face support is at the distributor/dealer level......we are the guys that knock on doors to offer what support we can.......little things like folding bail handles are cheaper than beer at your local pub !
I had to get one for a customer and it was so cheap the paperwork to charge for it would have cost more so I sent it through NC.

The vast majority of support can be provided via emails however one must consider who goes to the effort of providing good support must also have the funding for it from sales profits.
There are no free lunches.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #80 on: January 28, 2019, 07:55:48 pm »
Well, don't get me wrong but I can't imagine that the Siglent support can compete with e.g. LeCroy at company level. Like our local LeCroy sales guy came to our department several times to present new scopes, gave us replacement handles for old scopes for free etc. Besides, bigger companies get discounts and if you ask for some additional discount like some decoders included for free, you usually get that as well. Stuff like this.

I keep hearing that.
I think support is highly dependent on country.

When I tried to contact them to try to buy a scope, they literally fucked me off , pardon my French. I am small company that would buy one ws3000 or maybe a refurbished one of larger models.
They couldn't care less for me. Too small to care for. And after I already purchased something else, the model I was interested in was offered on E-bay for less than I offered.

I bought Keysight MSO3000T because Keysight was willing to listen to me and respected me as a customer no matter how small I was.

LeCroy was my first choice, I like their concept. After that experience I was sure that if I bought the scope they would give me shit support.

In my experience so far, Siglent and Rigol gave me better support than LeCroy, with Keysight being best so far.
Your mileage may vary...

Regards,

Sinisa
 

Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #81 on: January 28, 2019, 08:27:53 pm »
For sure it's a difference if you work for an international company with thousands of employees or a small one with just a few people. Still, you don't want to seriously put Rigol over LeCroy support. The few times I tried to contact Rigol they were either totally incompetent or lied or a mixture of both. For many years you had to beg to get a firmware update and then there was a 30% chance to brick your device. Maybe things got better, but my confidence in Rigol support is totally shattered. Keysight and LeCroy were/are just a totally different league - at least at company level.
I honestly can't tell anything about Siglent or how Keysight or Lecroy would treat me as private customer. So maybe I did Siglent injustice. I just find it hard to believe they have a large local support team of application engineers who are native speakers and know their instruments inside out but maybe I'm wrong.
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Online BillB

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #82 on: January 28, 2019, 09:14:17 pm »
When I tried to contact them to try to buy a scope, they literally fucked me off...

Wow, I really hope that wasn't the case.  I hope it was figuratively!   :D
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #83 on: January 28, 2019, 09:31:52 pm »
When I tried to contact them to try to buy a scope, they literally fucked me off...

Wow, I really hope that wasn't the case.  I hope it was figuratively!   :D

LOL !!  :-DD
Yes you got it right...
 

Online Martin72

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #84 on: January 28, 2019, 09:41:24 pm »
Batronix has them in stock now. The SDS5054X sells for 5901.21€. At least this sounds somewhat more realistic than the (insane) ~9758€ Rigol asks for a DS7054 (which doesn't even have an MSO option). Then again, my understanding is that the  Rigol DS7014 could be currently "upgraded" to a DS7054, so this comparison is a bit off anyway.
So let's see if there will be some kind of promotion or whatever. I still think that 6k€ is too much for a Siglent with so-so frontend and much worse support, probe availability and resell value compared to an A brand.

Saw it a few minutes ago (on batronix)….
The prices are in the range of an RTB 2000 or "smaller" WS3000Z ( btw, the siglent´s back looks like a WS3000...), the prices for the rigol 7000s seems like a joke against.
So the 5000s siglent must compete against R&S and Lecroy.
I didn´t see the rigol 7000 as a real opponent for the siglent.

Online tautech

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #85 on: January 28, 2019, 09:55:09 pm »
I honestly can't tell anything about Siglent or how Keysight or Lecroy would treat me as private customer.
Then don't speculate.
Quote
So maybe I did Siglent injustice. I just find it hard to believe they have a large local support team of application engineers who are native speakers and know their instruments inside out but maybe I'm wrong.
A little, hey we have had problems in the past but now with the worldwide team of excellent beta testers and experienced quality staff from the industry that cover most languages we can only get better.
I can say, when I beta tested SDS1104X-E the product managers I dealt with at the factory were wonderful and with excellent English skills.

How big their product teams are, well we can make guesses from the factory info online but certainly they are not large.
IMHO that's a good thing, as a small highly skilled team gets projects done whereas too many cooks can spoil the broth.  ;)
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Online nctnico

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #86 on: January 28, 2019, 09:58:32 pm »
Well, don't get me wrong but I can't imagine that the Siglent support can compete with e.g. LeCroy at company level. Like our local LeCroy sales guy came to our department several times to present new scopes, gave us replacement handles for old scopes for free etc. Besides, bigger companies get discounts and if you ask for some additional discount like some decoders included for free, you usually get that as well. Stuff like this.
I keep hearing that.
I think support is highly dependent on country.

When I tried to contact them to try to buy a scope, they literally fucked me off , pardon my French. I am small company that would buy one ws3000 or maybe a refurbished one of larger models.
They couldn't care less for me. Too small to care for. And after I already purchased something else, the model I was interested in was offered on E-bay for less than I offered.
I have a similar experience with Lecroy. I tried to get a good deal on the Wavesurfer 3000 but the local dealer didn't want to do a deal. They offered a Rigol instead  :palm:  (am I at 'Toys are us' now?). Since then I don't bother with Lecroy. Also I won't buy Siglent stuff from the local distributor I bought my SDS2204 from. Utterly useless and they didn't want to take it back when it turned out to be a complete turd. Unfortunately you won't know the level of service until you really need service.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 10:06:56 pm by nctnico »
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Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #87 on: January 28, 2019, 10:31:27 pm »
Then don't speculate.
Well, I will speculate as much as I desire. I sure hope your tone is nicer when dealing with customers as else this would somehow justify my prejudice.

I have a similar experience with Lecroy. I tried to get a good deal on the Wavesurfer 3000 but the local dealer didn't want to do a deal. They offered a Rigol instead  :palm:  (am I at 'Toys are us' now?). Since then I don't bother with Lecroy. Also I won't buy Siglent stuff from the local distributor I bought my SDS2204 from. Utterly useless and they didn't want to take it back when it turned out to be a complete turd. Unfortunately you won't know the level of service until you really need service.
That is an experience with some dealer, not with LeCroy or their support.

But anyway, this has gone a bit offtopic. Partly my fault for which I excuse. Maybe we should focus on the SDS5000X again.
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Online nctnico

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2019, 11:59:19 pm »
That is an experience with some dealer, not with LeCroy or their support.
The problem is that for some brands you can't choose a local dealer. It is all divided in geographical areas. Ofcourse you can buy from generic outlets like Farnell, etc but then you can kiss making a deal goodbey.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2019, 04:49:35 pm »
Batronix has them in stock now. The SDS5054X sells for 5901.21€. At least this sounds somewhat more realistic than the (insane) ~9758€ Rigol asks for a DS7054 (which doesn't even have an MSO option). Then again, my understanding is that the  Rigol DS7014 could be currently "upgraded" to a DS7054, so this comparison is a bit off anyway.
So let's see if there will be some kind of promotion or whatever. I still think that 6k€ is too much for a Siglent with so-so frontend and much worse support, probe availability and resell value compared to an A brand.

Saw it a few minutes ago (on batronix)….
The prices are in the range of an RTB 2000 or "smaller" WS3000Z ( btw, the siglent´s back looks like a WS3000...), the prices for the rigol 7000s seems like a joke against.
So the 5000s siglent must compete against R&S and Lecroy.
I didn´t see the rigol 7000 as a real opponent for the siglent.


You get it. I find that the GUI, the general looks and features take a lot of inspiration from LeCroy.

0xdeadbeef raise a good point on the probe interface, i don't think i've seen any document about it...
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2019, 01:43:27 pm »
here is a picture of the 1GHz active probe Siglent SAP1000

I happen to have a frequency response graph for an engineering sample of the SAP1000. Together with the pre-production unit of the SDS5104X, frequency response is flat within +2/-3dB up to >1.1GHz.


SDS5104X_SAP1000_FFT_FR_2GHz_5mV_02


Even though only rated as 500MHz (and there will not be many useful applications at the higher frequencies because of the capacitive load), the supplied passive probes are quite impressive as well . When driven from a 25 Ohm source, frequency response is flat within +/-1.5dB up to ~1050MHz.


SDS5104X_SP3050A_FFT_FR_2GHz_20mV_01
 
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Online tautech

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« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 01:33:07 am by tautech »
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Offline bugi

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2019, 11:20:44 am »
Why do they call the AWG option "built-in" in the header/title of that section, when it seems to actually be an external device, just being controlled by the scope software (like 2000X-E, which has "module" in the corresponding title)?
 

Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2019, 12:17:19 pm »
I think this was somewhat clear from the very first announcements. Still, it's a bit of a shame that even using an external box, the output signals are limited to +/-3.3V. Also I understand arbitrary waveforms can only use 16k Points.
-> seem somewhat pointless like most "integrated" AWGs.

Honestly, the option model is a bit weird anyway. While it's nice and fait that standard decoders come with the scope, the bundle/price politic seems strange. Like you get CAN for free, but the CAN FD decoder costs $329 plus VAT even though CAN FD just adds a few additional data lengths and the ID part can be sent in higher frequency. So it's a minimum change to an existing decoder for 1ß% of the base model's price. It would have been more air and sensible to include I2S and put CAN, CAN FD and FlexRay in an optional automotive bundle.

I'm also concerned that the MSO and AWG options are split into a HW and SW part. Like the MSO is SDS-5000X-16LA for the SW option on top of the SPL2016 probe. Also I understand you need to purchase the AWG SW option SDS-5000X-FG in addition to the actual USB AWG SAG1021.

Well, I personally can live without the MSO option and the AWG seems much to limited anyway to put any serious money in it, so it doesn't really concern me much. I just don't like the idea of charging twice.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2019, 02:36:31 pm »


I'm also concerned that the MSO and AWG options are split into a HW and SW part. Like the MSO is SDS-5000X-16LA for the SW option on top of the SPL2016 probe. Also I understand you need to purchase the AWG SW option SDS-5000X-FG in addition to the actual USB AWG SAG1021.


AWG
Why you are concerned about splitted HW and SW?
Just tiny example, if user need signal source only for under 25MHz bode plot he  can just buy SAG1021 HW and nothing else. He not forced to buy SW license.

MSO
User need only buy SW license once.
He can then buy probe as often as need when these wear and tear. Probes are easy-to-wear and breakable goods when used continuously i real work. One accidental drop to floor and then someone walk, one accidental touch with soldering iron, and so on and so on. In some cases 16 channel LA probe is more easy to leave installed when need do some other things. Time is money, so 2 or 3 probes are perhaps more economy than always install probe lines specially if DUT is bit difficult to connect. Only need buy one SW.
Then need only buy probes if need more or one is worn.  Just as buy car tires or brake pads.
 
Or if have many scopes (example on some workshop) but only rare need MSO. Then license to all scopes but only one probe.
I think it is best that user can select what he need and what not.


Old times in one place we buy scopes and triple probe sets for all scopes, because all know that working in "field" is best place to loose probes or defect them. Just one turn and oups.. ... "it was probe". Who have time to wait new probes when need do work. Travel and/or waiting hours may cost 100 or "sky is limit" times more than one shit probe. Also I buy new  socks after they worn... some times buy just new ones if they smell or looks dirty - depending situation and good socks price is like "el cheapo" standard probe" and bit better probe is like shirt, if it wear or looks dirty just buy new one.  If trousers looks worn, well I buy new trousers and _good_ trousers price is nearly as one LA probe.

I'm much more concerned if HW and SW for options are welded together.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #95 on: February 02, 2019, 06:32:24 pm »
They could just as well only sell the HW and make the SW option free as this is the case for other scopes.
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Online Martin72

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2019, 11:41:23 pm »
Quote
Just tiny example, if user need signal source only for under 25MHz bode plot he  can just buy SAG1021 HW and nothing else. He not forced to buy SW license.


To me it seems, you must buy a license too to use the SAG1021.

Offline Rerouter

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #97 on: February 02, 2019, 11:45:34 pm »
for bode plot its free, for AWG usage where you can set the frequency amplitude, etc its by license only.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #98 on: February 02, 2019, 11:51:00 pm »
Ah, ok...

Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2019, 12:52:01 am »
Still, the AWG hardware costs like 140€ (without VAT) and I understand you could use all the AWG features with the free EasyWave SW from the PC while you are supposed to pay another 250€ (without VAT) to do the same from the scope (while you could get an SDG1032X for less)? BTW: for the SDS1004X-E, the SW licenses are around 100€ for LA and AWG which seems more reasonable and fair.
Admittedly, all manufacturers charge much higher prices for the very same licenses on the more expensive scopes. I can somewhat understand the business reasoning behind it (if you can afford 10k for a scope, you can also pay 1k for a piece SW), but it still feels like a ripoff.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 12:53:53 am by 0xdeadbeef »
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