EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: bill53 on September 10, 2021, 10:21:09 am
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Can I please call on the brains trust of this forum to answer the question. In September 2021, what would be your recommendation as the beginners lab trifecta that is, DSO, bench DMM, and bench PPS. I have my eye a on Fluke 8842A, fully loaded, last cal. 2008. Display looks OK, old but more highly specified than anything I can afford new. You feedback would be much appreciated. I have seen other posters recommend this info be a pinned post but have not found a list anywhere. May be a vote? Regards Bill
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It's hard to come up with a universal set of 3 instruments, as everyone has a different budget, and also different requirements.
Are you repairing vintage audio? Playing with arduino? Designing your own blinkies, or RF amplifiers?
FWIW I'd say, a good DMM (the Fluke 8842A definitely counts), a decent PSU preferably with at least two outputs, and a modern DSO, with built in AFG if the budget allows.
Sooner or later you'll end up with multiples of these anyway, and LCR meters, counter/timers, SA's, etc etc... :-DD
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It also depends upon whether you want new or used, or whether you are capable of (and have temporary access to other test equipment) fixing broken stuff.
For new, you could take a look at Rigol's stuff. Here in the USA, Tequipment.net advertises a nice starter set of four pieces (scope, power supply, multimeter and function generator) for about $1,500 USD.
For used (or broken), eBay has mountains of stuff in all conditions and price ranges. I enjoy fixing stuff, and have been pretty successful buying on eBay so far, and with careful shopping, I wouldn't have too much trouble buying a scope, power supply, DMM and function generator for less than $500 total.
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This guy is good on test gear and might be worth reading on power supplies, imo.
http://www.kerrywong.com/2018/09/17/inside-an-agilent-66312a-two-quadrant-power-supply/ (http://www.kerrywong.com/2018/09/17/inside-an-agilent-66312a-two-quadrant-power-supply/)
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Quick 2 cents on the 8842A: you might be able to save some money by getting the 8840A instead of the 8842A. For your purposes it should be appropriate. Also, make sure it has at least option AC-09. Option IEEE-05 is highly recommended. The front/rear switch can be a problem area. I snagged one for about $100 US that had multiple "issues" but I resolved them all by cleaning the switch.
Also, while these are nice DMMs in a way, it must be said they are also missing a lot of functions/features so you'll need some more equipment to fill in the gaps.
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It depends on how much money you want to spend and what is available to you in what condition.
IMO, an 8842A in good condition with the AC board is an excellent choice, but finding a decent one at a reasonable price just keeps getting harder and harder. They don't do capacitance and don't have dual displays or a beeper, but they do have all the basic functions and more importantly, they do them very well. Limitations are no uA or high-resistance ranges.
As for the other two, what you need, what you can spend and what is available is the whole game. It just depends on what you find. I'm using an old Tek PS280 PSU right now that isn't highly regarded by anyone and Tek didn't even make it, but it is perfectly adequate and bomb-proof, so IMO if you found a good deal on one, you would want to grab it. I wouldn't go scouring the web to find one though. You might want to consider new for a DSO due to how rapidl they've improved in the past decade.
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You may also want to consider a computer connection, for some projects it is very useful to sweep a power supply or load and log the result or check how a project behaves over time.
Using my software you can log/control a lot of different device, the supported list is here: https://lygte-info.dk/project/TestControllerSupportedEquipment%20UK.html (https://lygte-info.dk/project/TestControllerSupportedEquipment%20UK.html) This is not a final list, people are adding new devices to it.
And for power supplies check TTi, they are not the most expensive brand, but they make good supplies.
You may also want to consider a electronic load (I did first realise how useful it is when I got one).
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Am I the only one here who has gotten by with having only a few handheld DMMs? And with a very few exceptions this has been over 40+ years of electronics design. I've not done precision analog work, but my experience has included audio, power, lots of digital, and RF.
So I claim that while there's absolutely nothing wrong with having an expensive benchtop DMM, in most cases a beginner doesn't *need* one. Every so often I consider getting one myself, but then I have to admit I don't exactly need it. A DMM with a good computer connection for logging would be nice though.
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You may also want to consider a computer connection, for some projects it is very useful to sweep a power supply or load and log the result or check how a project behaves over time.
Using my software you can log/control a lot of different device, the supported list is here: https://lygte-info.dk/project/TestControllerSupportedEquipment%20UK.html (https://lygte-info.dk/project/TestControllerSupportedEquipment%20UK.html) This is not a final list, people are adding new devices to it.
Yes, thank you, your software is great. Since you're here and the OP may be interested, what is the best/easiest/cheapest ready-to-go way to connect up an 8842A to your software on a PC via USB? I have the National Instruments USB-to GPIB adapter, but that won't work. I couldn't get LabView to work with it easier (although I didn't try very hard) so all I have so far is a command-line control, which works.
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If you look at what is needed I would say:
Start with a very cheap digital multimeter (They are precise enough) and a USB power supply (It is only 5V, but that is enough for a lot of stuff). Use you money on a low end oscilloscope (Real oscilloscope like Siglent), then a power supply.
Next you have to decide between: ARB Generator, electronic load, good handheld meter/bench meter.
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Yes, thank you, your software is great. Since you're here and the OP may be interested, what is the best/easiest/cheapest ready-to-go way to connect up an 8842A to your software on a PC via USB? I have the National Instruments USB-to GPIB adapter, but that won't work. I couldn't get LabView to work with it easier (although I didn't try very hard) so all I have so far is a command-line control, which works.
Probably a Arduino with https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Twilight-Logic/AR488/master/AR488-manual.pdf (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Twilight-Logic/AR488/master/AR488-manual.pdf) software.
You may be able to start with the 8846A definition or if it is old (i.e. not supporting modern SCPI) you will have to do you own definition with the Ascii driver
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Can I please call on the brains trust of this forum to answer the question. In September 2021, what would be your recommendation as the beginners lab trifecta that is, DSO, bench DMM, and bench PPS. I have my eye a on Fluke 8842A, fully loaded, last cal. 2008. Display looks OK, old but more highly specified than anything I can afford new. You feedback would be much appreciated. I have seen other posters recommend this info be a pinned post but have not found a list anywhere. May be a vote? Regards Bill
1. As AVGresponding wrote, the answer is: "It depends..." and it depends mostly on what you intend to do. This is basically the reason such threads are not pinned, btw.
2. For a beginner, I am not sure a bench DMM is worth the extra cost compared to a good handheld DMM. A new Brymen bm869s for example, besides having a lot more functionality, would be less expensive than that used Fluke that was last calibrated 13 years ago. Also personally, the DMM is the one instrument I definitely would not buy used. Because it's the instrument that I would have to rely upon from day 1.
3. Whatever lab instruments you end up with, it is more important to learn to use them properly than their specific characteristics, accuracy, etc.
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Probably a Arduino with https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Twilight-Logic/AR488/master/AR488-manual.pdf (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Twilight-Logic/AR488/master/AR488-manual.pdf) software.
You may be able to start with the 8846A definition or if it is old (i.e. not supporting modern SCPI) you will have to do you own definition with the Ascii driver
How about these?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282749731986?epid=10010424984&hash=item41d5328492:g:V2gAAOSwZVlXp-Kb (https://www.ebay.com/itm/282749731986?epid=10010424984&hash=item41d5328492:g:V2gAAOSwZVlXp-Kb)
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For someone on a low budget, HKJ's list of supported devices is a good place to start, as otherwise you're fighting against old and/or terrible software and no easy way to use devices together, although LabVIEW and others are an option as mentioned.
For higher budgets, there is the Smart Bench Essentials Series from Keysight which while probably not popular with many, does present a somewhat compelling singular hardware/software package, IF you plan to use those features.
For a bench DMM I initially I started out with a used cal+data 34401A which allowed me to confidently calibrate some other equipment and also allowed for easy 4-wire capability. The serial port is fine for many purposes but shortly afterwards I upgraded to GPIB with a PCI card and cables. Now everything I buy is either GPIB or LXI.
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Probably a Arduino with https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Twilight-Logic/AR488/master/AR488-manual.pdf (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Twilight-Logic/AR488/master/AR488-manual.pdf) software.
You may be able to start with the 8846A definition or if it is old (i.e. not supporting modern SCPI) you will have to do you own definition with the Ascii driver
How about these?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282749731986?epid=10010424984&hash=item41d5328492:g:V2gAAOSwZVlXp-Kb (https://www.ebay.com/itm/282749731986?epid=10010424984&hash=item41d5328492:g:V2gAAOSwZVlXp-Kb)
No, TestController requires a virtual serial port and must support the controllers command set.
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Hi Everyone, thank you for your responses. I think I have settled on the following:
Siglent SDS1104X-E
Siglent SDG 2122X
Rigol DP 832
I'm thinking of purchasing two reasonable quality hand held multimeters rather than one bench meter? These are the candidates in alphabetical order, all these meters are either available in Australia or can be imported at reasonable cost, price in A$ range from $205 to $409, landed including tax.
Amprobe AM-140-A
Brymen BM785
Brymen BM857S
Brymen BM789
Brymen BM859S
Brymen BM867S
EEVBlog BM786
EEVBlog 121GW
Any comments on all of this selection would be appreciated. Cheers Bill
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The SDG2042X can be uphacked to the SDG2122X relatively easily and that saves you a bunch of money. Of course they aren't gouging you too hard for the 2122X, so that's sort of your choice.
Any of those meters will be fine, as well as the EEVBlog BM235. I'd just buy one for now and then you can see what you might need for the second one. Don't buy two of the same. Since you're in AU, you may as well get an EEVBlog version!
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The SDG2042X can be uphacked to the SDG2122X relatively easily and that saves you a bunch of money. Of course they aren't gouging you too hard for the 2122X, so that's sort of your choice.
Any of those meters will be fine, as well as the EEVBlog BM235. I'd just buy one for now and then you can see what you might need for the second one. Don't buy two of the same. Since you're in AU, you may as well get an EEVBlog version!
Thanks, I'm familiar with the hack process for Rigol but not with Siglent. I think that hack opportunity has been closed as you need a user name and pass word to telnet in??
Cheers Bill
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Read this thread, there's still a way in AFAIK.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg2042x-hack-door-closed/)
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OK Just downloaded a copy of firmware 23R3 which should allow telnet?? Can some one confirm, please
Cheers Bill
PS In Oz SDG2122 is almost twice the price of SDG2042. I'm only a maker not commercial.
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OK I think I've found the secret source being the script that you run to allow you to telnet in??
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I decided to give Dave some money and go with the 121GW. Now we have delivery drivers dispute, so hope it will not get held up in that :palm: Cheers Bill
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Hi,
I ”upgraded” a SDG2042x to a SDG2122x without issues so its still working.
I have Fluke 8840A and a Siglent SPD3303C power supply.
/Mikael
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https://www.envox.eu/product/eez-bb3-4-channel/ (https://www.envox.eu/product/eez-bb3-4-channel/)
may be if you swap again the EEZ BB3 could get a look in?