Beginner Test Gear

[austin2118ace]

Hi EEVBlog community,
So you can consider me a NOOB at electronics, I can do basic Arduino and stuff, but I do not have any decent gear, multi-meter or bench supply.

I know there is a lot of information about good beginner gear and I am trying to sort through it all, I do not see anything in my price range (which is not much roughly 50 or so dollars for the meter.) I found a bench multi-meter a  Keithly 175 and wondered if it would be worth getting(for giggles maybe?) or should I just get a hand held meter. Like the Extech EX330 from Dave's $50 meter video. (Any Recommendations?)

I also have seen Dave's videos on the Korad power supply, and have seen it mentioned as a good supply for beginners, but again, being 15 I don't have a steady income of cash, so my budget is limited sub 100 at best. I know I could just get an off the wall PC psu and put some banana jacks on it, but I was hoping for a variable supply but will return to that if I must. I don't need anything fancy 0-30 volts with 2 or 3 amps will be plenty. A load switch is a plus, if there isn't one I can always install one myself on the output.

Thanks,
Austin

[tggzzz]

Define what you are going to do. Then think about how to do it. Use imagination.

Simple example: if you are only going to use Arduinos, then there's little point in getting a generic PSU - a wall wart plus dedicated 3.3V and/or 5.5V regulator will be smaller, cheaper and just as effective.

[Muxr]

Get yourself a hand held meter or two. Amprobe 510 is decent and it's in your price range.

[Muxr]

Define what you are gong to do. Then think about how to do it.

Simple example: if you are only going to use Arduinos, then there's little point in getting a generic PSU - a wall wart plus dedicated 3.3V and/or 5.5V regulator will be smaller, cheaper and just as effective.

Some sort of current limit is very handy for beginners, as it can save them from frying components due to overcurrent when they have a short. So I would definitely recommend a current limiting supply of some sort.

[dadler]

I agree, a current limiting supply can be very useful even for tiny breadboard circuits.

This one is decent (you mentioned it) and has been reviewed by Dave (they fixed the issue he found, quite quickly at that):

http://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KD3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B00FPU6G4E/

$95 can be a lot when you are just getting started out, but a DMM (or two, so you can measure current at the same time, second one can be a cheapie), current limiting supply, a breadboard, soldering iron, and some parts are the bare minimum (in my opinion).

[tggzzz]

I agree, a current limiting supply can be very useful even for tiny breadboard circuits.

$95 can be a lot when you are just getting started out, but a DMM (or two, so you can measure current at the same time, second one can be a cheapie), current limiting supply, a breadboard, soldering iron, and some parts are the bare minimum (in my opinion).

I wonder how I managed to design, manufacture, debug and use a computer (Altair-8080 class). All I had was a 25W soldering iron, one analogue multimeter, LEDs and potentiometers as input devices, and a scratchbuilt power supply.

Use your imagination, debug in tiny steps verifying your understanding at each step.

[dadler]

I agree, a current limiting supply can be very useful even for tiny breadboard circuits.

$95 can be a lot when you are just getting started out, but a DMM (or two, so you can measure current at the same time, second one can be a cheapie), current limiting supply, a breadboard, soldering iron, and some parts are the bare minimum (in my opinion).

I wonder how I managed to design, manufacture, debug and use a computer (Altair-8080 class). All I had was a 25W soldering iron, one analogue multimeter, LEDs and potentiometers as input devices, and a scratchbuilt power supply.

Use your imagination, debug in tiny steps verifying your understanding at each step.

Your list isn't much different from what I am recommending? The power supply doesn't have to be some programmable crazy thing.

I just think that current limiting can prevent you from destroying your components early on. You need some sort of power supply, so *in my opinion* current limiting is a "bare minimum" as it prevents you from destroying circuits, starting tiny fires, and can be a good learning tool.

You can implement the current limiting in your self-built supply, which would be a good first project.

[Lightages]

The thread is old and the products have changed, but have a look at this thread for an idea for a very low budget lab.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/the-$250-electrnoics-lab-a-suggested-setup-for-beginners/msg265338/#msg265338

It is good enough to start and learn, but if you have a bigger budget then the first thing I would suggest to upgrade is a multimeter to a UT139C and a better power supply as has been suggested.

[Fungus]

I just think that current limiting can prevent you from destroying your components early on. You need some sort of power supply, so *in my opinion* current limiting is a "bare minimum" as it prevents you from destroying circuits, starting tiny fires, and can be a good learning tool.

I've got one of these: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=CPS-3205

It's compact, silent, and seems to work well enough.

[TheSteve]

Ball park area of where you are located? Maybe someone will donate something...

[tggzzz]

I agree, a current limiting supply can be very useful even for tiny breadboard circuits.

$95 can be a lot when you are just getting started out, but a DMM (or two, so you can measure current at the same time, second one can be a cheapie), current limiting supply, a breadboard, soldering iron, and some parts are the bare minimum (in my opinion).

I wonder how I managed to design, manufacture, debug and use a computer (Altair-8080 class). All I had was a 25W soldering iron, one analogue multimeter, LEDs and potentiometers as input devices, and a scratchbuilt power supply.

Use your imagination, debug in tiny steps verifying your understanding at each step.

Your list isn't much different from what I am recommending? The power supply doesn't have to be some programmable crazy thing.

I just think that current limiting can prevent you from destroying your components early on. You need some sort of power supply, so *in my opinion* current limiting is a "bare minimum" as it prevents you from destroying circuits, starting tiny fires, and can be a good learning tool.

You can implement the current limiting in your self-built supply, which would be a good first project.

Sorry, I didn't make my intentions clear. I agree there is little difference in our positions, my comments were aimed at those that think you need many things before you can even start.

The only quibble I have with what you wrote is that I think a PSU without explicit current limiting is a good learning tool

As for making your own, yes, but... One of the reasons PSUs sued to be so unreliable was that experienced engineers didn't want to design them - and so they were given to the inexperienced engineers A poor PSU is a very good learning experience!

[MarkF]

Do you have an old computer with an ATX Power Supply?  Consider one of these.  They have 1A fuses on each voltage output and you can do a lot with the basic fixed voltages.

And checkout the Brymen TBM251

which is a Greenlee DM-200A on Amazon for $83.

But, it's not going to be long before you will need a scope to figure out the real problems.  Especially if you're doing projects with your Arduino.

[dadler]

Sorry, I didn't make my intentions clear. I agree there is little difference in our positions, my comments were aimed at those that think you need many things before you can even start.

The only quibble I have with what you wrote is that I think a PSU without explicit current limiting is a good learning tool

As for making your own, yes, but... One of the reasons PSUs sued to be so unreliable was that experienced engineers didn't want to design them - and so they were given to the inexperienced engineers A poor PSU is a very good learning experience!

Haha! Indeed.

[vk6zgo]

I agree, a current limiting supply can be very useful even for tiny breadboard circuits.

$95 can be a lot when you are just getting started out, but a DMM (or two, so you can measure current at the same time, second one can be a cheapie), current limiting supply, a breadboard, soldering iron, and some parts are the bare minimum (in my opinion).

I wonder how I managed to design, manufacture, debug and use a computer (Altair-8080 class). All I had was a 25W soldering iron, one analogue multimeter, LEDs and potentiometers as input devices, and a scratchbuilt power supply.

Use your imagination, debug in tiny steps verifying your understanding at each step.

Your list isn't much different from what I am recommending? The power supply doesn't have to be some programmable crazy thing.

I just think that current limiting can prevent you from destroying your components early on. You need some sort of power supply, so *in my opinion* current limiting is a "bare minimum" as it prevents you from destroying circuits, starting tiny fires, and can be a good learning tool.

You can implement the current limiting in your self-built supply, which would be a good first project.

Sorry, I didn't make my intentions clear. I agree there is little difference in our positions, my comments were aimed at those that think you need many things before you can even start.

The only quibble I have with what you wrote is that I think a PSU without explicit current limiting is a good learning tool

As for making your own, yes, but... One of the reasons PSUs sued to be so unreliable was that experienced engineers didn't want to design them - and so they were given to the inexperienced engineers A poor PSU is a very good learning experience!

There is an enormous gulf between "making your own supply" & "designing your own supply".

There are plenty of well designed analog circuits with short cct,overcurrent &  regulator failure/over voltage protection out there that a beginner should be able to build.
Once you start specifying adjustable current limitation,etc,it gets complex fast.

Does it really matter if the OP cooks a few components?
He isn't rebuilding some rare device with "unobtainium" parts-----one cooked Arduino,& he will learn to be more careful!!

That said,your comment about new Engineers getting the job of designing Power supplies rings true.
Sony,out of 10 different models of Picture Monitors & TV Sets,would have 10 different PSU designs.
Sanyo,on the other hand,used one basic supply almost everywhere.

We had a theory that Sony Senior Engineers got sick of having the newbies underfoot & sent them off to design power supplies.

[Wytnucls]

Get the Keithley before someone else does. Excellent brand (0.03%+1 on DC volt), datalogging, 20,000 count and true RMS (100kHz). It will serve you well.

http://www.utwente.nl/tnw/slt/doc/apparatuur/multimeters/keithley175.pdf

[Lightages]

Actually I think I found even a better buy if the OP is in the US
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KEITHLEY-197-AUTORANGING-MICROVOLT-DMM-w-Manual-/301688304757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463e063475

[Wytnucls]

Actually I think I found even a better buy if the OP is in the US
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KEITHLEY-197-AUTORANGING-MICROVOLT-DMM-w-Manual-/301688304757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463e063475

That's not a 'buy it now' price. It will end up much higher in 4 days.

[Lightages]

Ooops! Sorry, yes you are right. I must have had my filters set up wrong.

[Wytnucls]

Still worth keeping an eye on it, if no one else is interested.

[austin2118ace]

Define what you are going to do. Then think about how to do it. Use imagination.

Simple example: if you are only going to use Arduinos, then there's little point in getting a generic PSU - a wall wart plus dedicated 3.3V and/or 5.5V regulator will be smaller, cheaper and just as effective.

Currently everything I do is Arduino based. I want to expand into other things I just haven't had the time, or resources, to do so. I'm trying to change that.

I agree, a current limiting supply can be very useful even for tiny breadboard circuits.

This one is decent (you mentioned it) and has been reviewed by Dave (they fixed the issue he found, quite quickly at that):

http://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KD3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B00FPU6G4E/

$95 can be a lot when you are just getting started out, but a DMM (or two, so you can measure current at the same time, second one can be a cheapie), current limiting supply, a breadboard, soldering iron, and some parts are the bare minimum (in my opinion).

I have all the basic stuff, soldering equipment, breadboards, etc. I guess i'm just sick of hooking up 7805s and the lot. I have looked at that power supply but I just can't afford it. Are any of the 40-60 dollars one hung low chinese supplies on eBay worth my time? they have 0-30v and 0-2 or 3 amps. No mention of over current protection, which would be nice, but like vk6zgo said, if I fry my Arduino i'm sure i'd figure it out real quick.

Do you have an old computer with an ATX Power Supply?  Consider one of these.  They have 1A fuses on each voltage output and you can do a lot with the basic fixed voltages.



But, it's not going to be long before you will need a scope to figure out the real problems.  Especially if you're doing projects with your Arduino.

To be honest I am working on something right now that a scope would be very convenient to probe some transistors, no luck, but baby steps.

Actually I think I found even a better buy if the OP is in the US
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KEITHLEY-197-AUTORANGING-MICROVOLT-DMM-w-Manual-/301688304757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463e063475

I have found several other Keithley meters around ebay. What is the difference between the multimeter labeled ones e.g. 169 and 175 and the one called a Microvolt e.g 177. Does that just insinuate it can measure microvolts? Free shipping is really needed. Most of these meters are out of my price range with the ridiculous 20+ dollar shipping. The 169 I prob wont get, but its there in case. 3 digits isn't enough if I remember from Dave's videos.

3 Meter Bundle would it be worth trying to score this at a lower price, considering none of the meters are confirmed working, and looked pretty rough? A score of 3 meters for that price would be worth it however.


I'd like to thank everyone for their input, even if I didn't quote you I read it all and am considering it all.

[tggzzz]

I have all the basic stuff, soldering equipment, breadboards, etc. I guess i'm just sick of hooking up 7805s and the lot. I have looked at that power supply but I just can't afford it. Are any of the 40-60 dollars one hung low chinese supplies on eBay worth my time? they have 0-30v and 0-2 or 3 amps. No mention of over current protection, which would be nice, but like vk6zgo said, if I fry my Arduino i'm sure i'd figure it out real quick.

Ditch the breadboards - you'll spend longer debugging their bad connections and excess capacitance/inductance than you do debugging your circuits.

I concur with hooking up 7805s! Consider using a wall wart plus things like http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GMCKB22 or http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00EYT1DWW or http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GX3YWNE
but take the max current ratings with a pinch of salt unless your fingers are made of asbestos or you want to use the PSU as a soldering iron.

To be honest I am working on something right now that a scope would be very convenient to probe some transistors, no luck, but baby steps.

A scope is undoubtedly convenient, especially if you have poor layout/construction practices. Be aware that there are traps for the unwary with scopes and probes; before you start using them have a look at https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/scope-probe-reference-material/

[Lightages]

Forget those bashed up Keithleys. You don't need to buy junk and hope you can fix it. If you are short on money that is a bad bet.

If you can spend up to $50, it is hard to beat the Amprobe AM510 or the Uni-T UT139C for value and build quality. I personally would recommend the UT139C as I have used it and it does everything most people need or want.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325
You can trust this seller. He is iloveelectronics here on the forum. PM him and he might be able to give you a better deal.

If you can't manage the $50, then there are many choices, but many bad ones. You can get something useable for the bench but not the greatest for around $17. I did a video review on one of them, the UT136B:

Just don't use cheap meters like this for high energy circuits, bench use only.

[austin2118ace]

Would this be worth trying to get. Judging from the state of the equipment I will assume this is gonna get rather expensive within the next 5 days?

[Muxr]

Would this be worth trying to get. Judging from the state of the equipment I will assume this is gonna get rather expensive within the next 5 days?

You really want a few handhelds before you go out and buy a bench DMM. These bench DMMs are specialized for high resolution measurements, which doesn't necessarily make them good all purpose meters.

That meter you linked can't measure frequency, may not have the True RMS module for AC, doesn't have continuity, nor diode tester. Not to mention it's a few decades old. How are you going to check and see if it's true?

Get a new handheld. If you're on a tight budget, get an Amprobe 510 or the Uni-T Lightgages suggested. It's a no brainer. There is no substitute for a hand held DMM.

[dadler]

That auction will probably end somewhere between $50-$150.

I suggest a handheld DMM. Save the bench meter for much later.