Products > Test Equipment

bench multimeter for someone learning

<< < (15/22) > >>

BillyO:

--- Quote from: Fungus on March 27, 2023, 03:18:57 pm ---The word was "acknowledge", not "react".

--- End quote ---
When I'm talking about acknowledge I am talking about reaction.  In particular the reaction time the brain takes to register the event.  Once it has been registered it is acknowledged.  I'm not talking about responding with some other motion (that could take nearly twice as long).  Just the "realization" that something happened.

Anyway, nctnico explained his use case.  It was much different than I had guessed and a rapid response from the meter might indeed improve his process.

shapirus:
I thought latched continuity beeper only existed as a compensation for not being able to implement a fast-acting detector. It is surprising to find that some people actually prefer it latched.

To me, it (latching) is extremely annoying, since it removes maybe 90% of the continuity tester functionality, as was explained in the previous posts. This is why it is an important part of DMM reviews to check how fast the beeper turns on when continuity is detected and how fast it turns off when it's gone.

One less obvious use case (and also an advantage) of the non-latched beeper is that it allows you to hear when the tips of your probes (or the wires, or whatever extra contact points there may be) wear out and it's time to replace them: the sound becomes scratchy instead of the solid continous beep that you hear with fresh tips.

tooki:

--- Quote from: shapirus on March 27, 2023, 05:30:21 pm ---I thought latched continuity beeper only existed as a compensation for not being able to implement a fast-acting detector.

--- End quote ---
That makes no sense. Slow detection is the result of a poor latching circuit, not the reason for adding latching. Fast detection is not a challenge (non-latching continuity is cheaper and easier to implement after all!). Latching while maintaining fast detection is a bit of an art, and one that many meter makers haven’t mastered.

The point of latching is to extend a brief, possibly inaudible beep into one that is long enough and loud enough to be heard reliably. (Not all meters get used in quiet lab environments; they’re also used widely in industry where there needs to be NO ambiguity about whether there is or isn’t continuity.)

I just did a quick test using an MCU to pulse a relay for a few ms (2.25ms is the shortest where its normally-closed contacts open long enough for my multimeters to detect it at all). With a meter with unlatched continuity, the interruption is so brief it really doesn’t sound like a pause; it just adds a click over the continuous beep. On the Fluke 87V, it extends the interruption in the beeping to something plainly audible.



For intermittent contact, I had to set the code to 5ms to get any detectable beep. On the Fluke, it’s a plain, clear beep. On the non-latching meter, a barely audible chirp so short it sounds more like a click. Fine in my quiet bedroom, but if there were any sources of noise in here, you’d be totally unable to hear it.



The scratchiness of unlatched continuity is good for detecting scratchy things (where it’s making and breaking contact many times in a split second), but not good at finding sparse intermittent open circuits.

NoisyBoy:
Back to OP's original questions and comments, I agree that these are good options.  Between the two brands, I found my experience with firmware upgrade to be better with Siglent.  Although it is pushing the high end of what the buyer has budgeted for.  However, I don't have experience either of these two particular DMM, so feedback from other current owners would be useful. 

I also agree the comment about 4.5 vs 5.5 digits.  If you don't have the use case for 5.5 digit meter, you might as well get a 4.5 digit, and spend the extra on better probes and attachments.  Most electronics work does not require 5.5 digits unless you are dealing with a highly stable and precise power source.  Otherwise, the last 2-3 digits will likely just be drifting all over the place.

In any event, what he is getting is leagues beyond what most of us start out with.  My first DMM was a Fluke 8000A, 3.5 digits, it is still in use today.  And I never found the 3.5 digit to be lacking in the vast majority of my use cases. 

I hope you will get through your cancer treatment soon and return to full health.




--- Quote from: rsjsouza on March 27, 2023, 10:03:26 am ---
--- Quote from: mastershake on March 27, 2023, 04:15:07 am ---sorry been away had lots of doc stuff past few days and a minor surgery i had to have to remove a small tumor from the liver.

anyway his budget is up to maybe 4-500 he wants this to last a long time and not have to buy one again for a good while (though imo once he catches the bug ill bet he ends up buying more like most of us) and he was offered a brand new hantek 3055 in the box for 400$ even which for that unit seems a good deal but they dont seem to have a great rep around here. sdg reviewed them and liked them.

but i also thought he should spend maybe 200 or less but he is set on something a bit higher end then that to last for a while and he is looking at 5.5 digits. i told him he really doesnt need more then 4.5 but he wants at least a 5.5 (he wanted a 6.5 till he saw those prices new lol). not really sure the hantek would be the best choice but then im not sure in that kind of budget what would be. that is his max for a bench meter though im sure if he found something as good for less he may go that way. but he does want a new one not second hand (im not sure why but he def wants something new)

--- End quote ---
Well, for that kind of money I would be looking at the offers from tge more known brands here:

Rigol DM3058E
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-multimeters/dm3000/

Siglent SDM3055.
https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3055/

As for the current discussion between old versus new, having an older high quality model gives you a lower cost ticket platform to experiment with different and interesting things such as GPIB and the minor and occasional repair. Not to mention that the availability of excellent service manuals which thoroughly explain the theory of operation of the equipment provides an unparalleled education route when compared to a more modern (and more integrated) model.
My progression was an old but incredibly accurate manual range Keithely 191 where the ADC is fully discrete, to a Racal Dana 5001 that has some microprocessing for the auto ranges, to a pair of 3478As that give me incredible accuracy when compared to the handhelds, at the expense of the convenience features of the newer models. Even still, I can easily test diodes on a 3478A, while capacitance, continuity frequency, etc. are done with more suitable equipment (including the handhelds)

So, the appeal and differences mentioned about a cheaper model such as the VC8141 become dilluted in face of an Aneng AN888S, for example, which has a much better display and the same convenience features.

Good luck in your decision!

--- End quote ---

2N3055:

--- Quote from: tooki on March 27, 2023, 07:01:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: shapirus on March 27, 2023, 05:30:21 pm ---I thought latched continuity beeper only existed as a compensation for not being able to implement a fast-acting detector.

--- End quote ---
That makes no sense. Slow detection is the result of a poor latching circuit, not the reason for adding latching. Fast detection is not a challenge (non-latching continuity is cheaper and easier to implement after all!). Latching while maintaining fast detection is a bit of an art, and one that many meter makers haven’t mastered.

The point of latching is to extend a brief, possibly inaudible beep into one that is long enough and loud enough to be heard reliably. (Not all meters get used in quiet lab environments; they’re also used widely in industry where there needs to be NO ambiguity about whether there is or isn’t continuity.)

I just did a quick test using an MCU to pulse a relay for a few ms (2.25ms is the shortest where its normally-closed contacts open long enough for my multimeters to detect it at all). With a meter with unlatched continuity, the interruption is so brief it really doesn’t sound like a pause; it just adds a click over the continuous beep. On the Fluke 87V, it extends the interruption in the beeping to something plainly audible.



For intermittent contact, I had to set the code to 5ms to get any detectable beep. On the Fluke, it’s a plain, clear beep. On the non-latching meter, a barely audible chirp so short it sounds more like a click. Fine in my quiet bedroom, but if there were any sources of noise in here, you’d be totally unable to hear it.



The scratchiness of unlatched continuity is good for detecting scratchy things (where it’s making and breaking contact many times in a split second), but not good at finding sparse intermittent open circuits.

--- End quote ---

Well you tested very cheap meter for reference and compared it to superb Fluke latched implementation (yes Fluke did it right on F87V).
 
On my BM869S, 1 ms pulse creates clear click, and also clearly audible "dropout click" on 1 ms interruption. Same with BM525S.
If I go over 10 ms you start hearing it as a short tone burst. With some experience you can relatively judge intervals by ear...

On MTX3293 (that has some kind of fast latching type), 1ms pulse is less audible, but dropout is nicely heard. I find it very usable but prefer Brymen type. Mind you, I used F87V for years. I can do job with it's beeper and find it well done. But latching beeper and diode beep is something I never really found really important.. To each its own...

Best..


Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod