Author Topic: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup  (Read 2997 times)

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Offline haloway13

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Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« on: October 16, 2020, 03:45:11 pm »
Hi all,

I would think this has been asked before but I did not find anything that specifically addressed my question.

Is there a benefit to going with one manufacturer?

  • Siglent Technologies SPD3303X-E Triple Output Power Supply
  • Siglent SDS1104X-E 100Mhz digital oscilloscope 4 channels standard decoder
  • Siglent Technologies SDG1032X Arbitrary Waveform - Function Generator

These three items are currently listed for $389, $499, and $359 respectively for a total of $1247.00 (This is a little more than I want to spend but might be worth it)

Other than the brand look and feel and having similar interfaces (I would hope) are there other advantages of going with the same manufacturer?

same PC Interface?

Thanks in advance!

--Tim
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 03:51:56 pm »
A better bundle price?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 04:08:20 pm »
Is there a benefit to going with one manufacturer?

Not really.

  • Siglent Technologies SPD3303X-E Triple Output Power Supply
  • Siglent SDS1104X-E 100Mhz digital oscilloscope 4 channels standard decoder
  • Siglent Technologies SDG1032X Arbitrary Waveform - Function Generator

I believe the scope and ARBGEN can talk to each other and do bode plots, but ... together they cost very nearly as much as, eg. a Rigol MSO5000 which can do a lot more (350MHz bandwidth, 8GHz sample rate, more memory, built in function generator, bode plots, big touch screen, etc, etc.)
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 04:52:13 pm »
Check with Saelig in US, they may have a bundled Siglent discount. They also offer a EEVblog discount.  :-+

Depending on your needs, you might consider the SDS2000X Plus series which comes with a built-in 50MHz AWG. I have the SD2102X Plus (wanted the 2104, but was BO), and have been very impressed. Way more scope than I expected for the $ :-+

The Siglent CS for a 1st time customer has also been top notch ;)

I can't speak about Rigol or others as I haven't evaluated them, but selected the Siglent over the Rigol based upon all the threads. My past experience (>50 yrs) has always been with HP/Agilent/Keysight, Tektronix and a little R&S gear, so a little reluctant to "jump ship" and go with an unknown to me brand, especially an overseas brand  ??? Now I have 3 Siglent instruments, SDS2102X Plus, SDG2042X and SSA3021X Plus, all "upgraded" with the help of folks here on EEVblog :-+

I'm sure whatever you decide, you will enjoy the many fine instruments available from various sources today at modest costs :-+

Best
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 06:06:26 pm »
Hi all,
Is there a benefit to going with one manufacturer?

Maybe a fanboy t-shirt prize? kkkk

Is there a benefit to going with one manufacturer?

Not really.

  • Siglent Technologies SPD3303X-E Triple Output Power Supply
  • Siglent SDS1104X-E 100Mhz digital oscilloscope 4 channels standard decoder
  • Siglent Technologies SDG1032X Arbitrary Waveform - Function Generator

I believe the scope and ARBGEN can talk to each other and do bode plots, but ... together they cost very nearly as much as, eg. a Rigol MSO5000 which can do a lot more (350MHz bandwidth, 8GHz sample rate, more memory, built in function generator, bode plots, big touch screen, etc, etc.)


The rigol MSO5000 would compare to the siglent SDS2000x plus, right?
AFAIK and going off topic,  I've never used this instrument but researched a lot about it. Was once in love with it them totally disappointed, seems to be a very very poor AD resolution (not even 6 full bits) and testimonials says the firmware interface is crap.

I'd say siglent is a more polished instrument, will give less bang for the buck but better usability, altough my experience with siglents and rigols are limited.
 

Offline rvalente

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2020, 06:08:53 pm »
I would go for a siglent sds2000x plus scope, would latter get a DG811 gen (and hack it).

As for the power supply if you do not need a very specific function (like programmability) I see no particular reason to get a fancy looking psu with a beautiful display, any old HP 6xxx series is SOOOOOO good, I've many of them.

I would get a 6623 or 6622 any time instead a siglent power supply, these babies are work horses and serviceable.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 06:12:52 pm by rvalente »
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2020, 06:32:09 pm »

The rigol MSO5000 would compare to the siglent SDS2000x plus, right?
AFAIK and going off topic,  I've never used this instrument but researched a lot about it. Was once in love with it them totally disappointed, seems to be a very very poor AD resolution (not even 6 full bits) and testimonials says the firmware interface is crap.

I'd say siglent is a more polished instrument, will give less bang for the buck but better usability, altough my experience with siglents and rigols are limited.

Interesting about the ADC resolution of the MSO05000. I did a quick eval a few days ago of the SDS2102X Plus in 10 bit mode with 20MHz BW, using precision DC and AC references I've developed (based on LM399AH), this was supporting a HP34401A and Agilent34401A calibration. Used a new Keysight 34465A as measurement reference. Here's what I found using DSO statistics measurement function.

KS34465A             SDS2102X Plus
9.99999VDC          9.966VDC
7.04192VDC          7.0092VDC
0.999964VDC        1.0003VDC
100.0005mVDC     98.987mVDC
5.00026VDC          4.9987VDC
2.49994VAC           2.4996VAC (250.000Hz)

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 06:45:22 pm »
AFAIK and going off topic,  I've never used this instrument but researched a lot about it. Was once in love with it them totally disappointed, seems to be a very very poor AD resolution (not even 6 full bits)

Says who? Where are you getting that idea from?


« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 06:48:00 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 08:51:19 pm »
AFAIK and going off topic,  I've never used this instrument but researched a lot about it. Was once in love with it them totally disappointed, seems to be a very very poor AD resolution (not even 6 full bits)

Says who? Where are you getting that idea from?

Me probably. Post #1745 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3180030/#msg3180030

I measured it, I'd say it was quite a disappointment considering I'm a bit of a Rigol fan boy. :-(

IMHO Rigol bench AWGs seem better than Siglent's in terms of UI. Occasionally, my Siglent SDG1025 has gone weird on me to the extent of it blowing up a DUT, so I'm naturally wary of it. Typically scopes with integrated AFG/AWG on Rigols offer two channels as opposed to one, and the Rigols offer modulation capabilities. For me the most limiting factor of all scope integrated AFGs is they're very amplitude limited irrespective of brand.

Comparing the SDS1104X-E to the Rigol DS1000Z(plus), if you're not intending to go for the MSO option, the SDS1104X-E is definitely the one to go for, it has a less cluttered UI and feels marginally snappier. However, if you intend to add the MSO option, the SDS1104X-E is almost unusable, both in terms of UI sluggishness and how it takes over your bench top with its stiff cabling. I'd far rather go for the DS1000Z Plus with its respective LA pod.

Note that the SDS1104X-E does integrate with the bench SDG1025 AWG via USB for Bode plots, presumably the SDG1000X series will work too. Alternatively, the Siglent's optional companion single AWG brick, is a bench hog (like the LA), and definitely not a neat solution compared to the Rigol DS1000Z-S models with integrated dual AWG, although note that the Rigol's AWG BNCs are on the rear of the scope. ISTBC but don't think that the DS1000Z-S offers Bode plots, unless it's included in a new version of firmware that I'm not aware of.

I can't really comment on the Siglent power supply, I don't have it. I do have the Rigol DP832, and few other lab bench power supplies. My most used bench supplies are simple small form factor unbranded 0-30V 5A single supply units with 1mA & 10mV resolution, and simple (but separate) voltage and current limit control knobs. The Rigol DP832 is only used about 10% of the time, purely because it's unnecessarily complicated for most of my use cases and needs a bit of boot time. I've never used any of the "advanced functions" such as the Recorder or Analyzer for example in a practical setting. Depending on what you're intending to do, you might find yourself better off with a couple of basic cheap supplies.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 02:19:03 am by Howardlong »
 
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Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 10:18:00 pm »
It could be beneficial, if you want to automate a setup, and you dont need to support 2-3 different libraries or APIs or communication protocols. If you dont want to do that, probably you should go for the most suitable equipment, not necessarily from the same brand.
 

Offline TK

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2020, 12:12:39 am »
I would go for a siglent sds2000x plus scope, would latter get a DG811 gen (and hack it).

As for the power supply if you do not need a very specific function (like programmability) I see no particular reason to get a fancy looking psu with a beautiful display, any old HP 6xxx series is SOOOOOO good, I've many of them.

I would get a 6623 or 6622 any time instead a siglent power supply, these babies are work horses and serviceable.
SDS2000x plus has AWG integrated, not a good one, but it is there and can do bode plot... no need for the DG811
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 12:52:27 am »
I don't particularly care about matching manufacturers of my test equipment.  Mine are mostly HP and Tektronics but many of them are generations apart that using them together as a set is not possible.  If I really want to do that, I'd just do GPIB, the defacto standard of all test gear. 

I'd just concentrate on getting the best for the money.  There are so many in used market, for me, it doesn't make sense to go the route you are taking.  I do have a Siglent scope.  It's a fine equipment. 
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2020, 01:38:49 am »
AFAIK and going off topic,  I've never used this instrument but researched a lot about it. Was once in love with it them totally disappointed, seems to be a very very poor AD resolution (not even 6 full bits)

Says who? Where are you getting that idea from?

Me probably. Post #1745 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3180030/#msg3180030

I measured it, I'd say it was quite a disappointment considering I'm a bit of a Rigol fan boy. :-(

Here we see the danger of making statements like that on The Internet without mentioning the test conditions, etc.

People might read that and go around repeating that it has a 6-bit ADC.

 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 01:41:35 am »
Wait, it's been a few hours since this post and tautech still hasn't weighed in? Do we need to call the police for a wellness check?
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 01:58:19 am »
Interesting about the ADC resolution of the MSO05000. I did a quick eval a few days ago of the SDS2102X Plus in 10 bit mode with 20MHz BW, using precision DC and AC references I've developed (based on LM399AH), this was supporting a HP34401A and Agilent34401A calibration. Used a new Keysight 34465A as measurement reference. Here's what I found using DSO statistics measurement function.

KS34465A             SDS2102X Plus
9.99999VDC          9.966VDC
7.04192VDC          7.0092VDC
0.999964VDC        1.0003VDC
100.0005mVDC     98.987mVDC
5.00026VDC          4.9987VDC
2.49994VAC           2.4996VAC (250.000Hz)


You'll get good results if you put almost anything in "Hi-Res" mode, apply a low pass filter and and take enough averages.

eg. What results do you get if you try that on other 'scopes?

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 02:00:03 am by Fungus »
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 02:06:12 am »
Interesting about the ADC resolution of the MSO05000. I did a quick eval a few days ago of the SDS2102X Plus in 10 bit mode with 20MHz BW, using precision DC and AC references I've developed (based on LM399AH), this was supporting a HP34401A and Agilent34401A calibration. Used a new Keysight 34465A as measurement reference. Here's what I found using DSO statistics measurement function.

KS34465A             SDS2102X Plus
9.99999VDC          9.966VDC
7.04192VDC          7.0092VDC
0.999964VDC        1.0003VDC
100.0005mVDC     98.987mVDC
5.00026VDC          4.9987VDC
2.49994VAC           2.4996VAC (250.000Hz)


You'll get good results if you put almost anything in "Hi-Res" mode, apply a low pass filter and and take enough averages.

eg. What results do you get if you try that on other 'scopes?

Don't have another DSO, although do have 2 Tek 2465s analog scopes.

So why don't you take some measurements with another DSO in "Hi-Res" mode and report what you find ;)

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 02:07:48 am »
AFAIK and going off topic,  I've never used this instrument but researched a lot about it. Was once in love with it them totally disappointed, seems to be a very very poor AD resolution (not even 6 full bits)

Says who? Where are you getting that idea from?

Me probably. Post #1745 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3180030/#msg3180030

I measured it, I'd say it was quite a disappointment considering I'm a bit of a Rigol fan boy. :-(

Here we see the danger of making statements like that on The Internet without mentioning the test conditions, etc.

People might read that and go around repeating that it has a 6-bit ADC.

Test conditions are two posts before in post #1743.



Effective bits:



My comparison of MSO5000 to SDS2000X+

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 02:09:52 am by Howardlong »
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 02:11:50 am »
Hi all,

I would think this has been asked before but I did not find anything that specifically addressed my question.

Is there a benefit to going with one manufacturer?

  • Siglent Technologies SPD3303X-E Triple Output Power Supply
  • Siglent SDS1104X-E 100Mhz digital oscilloscope 4 channels standard decoder
  • Siglent Technologies SDG1032X Arbitrary Waveform - Function Generator

These three items are currently listed for $389, $499, and $359 respectively for a total of $1247.00 (This is a little more than I want to spend but might be worth it)

Other than the brand look and feel and having similar interfaces (I would hope) are there other advantages of going with the same manufacturer?

same PC Interface?

Thanks in advance!

--Tim

Hey there.. I run a lot of siglent gear, true benefit of all being the same? Only one i can think of is using a siglent awg with a siglent scope lets you do bode plots.. thats about it honestly

I eval each piece for what it can do and bang per buck.. siglent is typically the best value brand along with say rigol

That said i've had all those pieces.. good kit to start with, this or rigol, cant go wrong really
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 03:35:47 am »
Interesting about the ADC resolution of the MSO05000. I did a quick eval a few days ago of the SDS2102X Plus in 10 bit mode with 20MHz BW, using precision DC and AC references I've developed (based on LM399AH), this was supporting a HP34401A and Agilent34401A calibration. Used a new Keysight 34465A as measurement reference. Here's what I found using DSO statistics measurement function.

KS34465A             SDS2102X Plus
9.99999VDC          9.966VDC
7.04192VDC          7.0092VDC
0.999964VDC        1.0003VDC
100.0005mVDC     98.987mVDC
5.00026VDC          4.9987VDC
2.49994VAC           2.4996VAC (250.000Hz)


You'll get good results if you put almost anything in "Hi-Res" mode, apply a low pass filter and and take enough averages.

eg. What results do you get if you try that on other 'scopes?

Don't have another DSO, although do have 2 Tek 2465s analog scopes.

So why don't you take some measurements with another DSO in "Hi-Res" mode and report what you find ;)

Best,

And in 10bit mode it also produce 10bit data to acquisition memory. many scopes what do trace average or decimated samplerats box car average do it only for  display but still 8 bit data in memory.  Of course 10bit mode also use more memory, 2 bytes for every 10bit produced data point- naturally.
I do not have this model in my positon far from home at this year but it is nice if someone look this bit more deeply including also data in memory, is it example ready for what ever PC software in .csv mode or do it first need somehow convert, (least I do not have seen this thing here in forum but naturally I have not read every single message here in forum.)

And then, many scopes have some kind of SFRA today. What have this performace what SDS1000X-E, 2000X-E and SDS2000Xplus have.
(Im not sure SDS1000X-C and SDS1000X-U SFRA things at all)
First it need note it have 3 simultaneous channels.
Second it need note it is based to frequency selective sweeping receivers what is big thing in some circumstances when do also other things than just playing fun. And it have also programmable level shape for sweeps what may be very useful when DUT have some active circuits. It is not checkbox feature in shiny brochure. It is real tool (with its limits) but of course it is not like dedicated SFRA instruments or set of instruments in very different price class.
1Hz resolution in 100MHz center and 500Hz span with up to over 120dB measurement dynamics in single sweep. Siglent set performance reference for other manufacturers in this kind of price class - look these Keysight, GoodWill etc jokes....

SDS1104X-E + SAG1021   well, with it can play and do something  but.... 
If I am Siglent I stop immdiately this S-Bus based LA and SG.  I can not understand what they have smoking when they get this idea.... I have not many times seen this kind of <censored>. Oh yes, they can use and they work but... and some peoples are even satisfied. They meet they limited needs.


Imho, basic good set.
SDS1104X-E + SDG1032X (or 1062X) is good set for many kind of work and hobby, lot of basic performance.

Separate machines can use independently and also example for BP (SFRA) it can use also in  generator 2 channel mode what may give big advantage in some SFRA situations.


SDS2104X Plus + SDG2042X (or even 2122X) is better and more expensive set for many works and hobby, lot of more performance and features than first one.
Generator is much better, and scope is lot of better. 
(yes of course 2000XPlus have FG but for serious use mostly need more so this is why I take here least SDG2000X series AWD)



Linear Power Supply. It need note that Siglent have also SPD3303C 

It have overall same performance than, but some tiny feature missing, other ways same as SPD3303X-E
But it do not have this TFT (my own personal taste classify this ugly) where user can not set colors and can not set even brightness, totally like kids designed outlook.
Why my workshop where I need do serious works need look like HongKong street at night with all colors and blinkings and flashings,  like food where all is mixed together as for pig's meal. It may disturb even brain work aka thinking.
C model have, imho, more nice 7 segment LED display what also radiate less EMI.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 02:49:41 am by rf-loop »
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Online tautech

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 04:36:40 am »
Wait, it's been a few hours since this post and tautech still hasn't weighed in? Do we need to call the police for a wellness check?
:-DD
Away for a couple of days ........
Nothing much to add other than all 3 of the OP’s selection can be improved.  ;)
Good choices and all 3 are popular sellers here in NZ.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2020, 03:50:21 pm »
Test conditions are two posts before in post #1743.

OK, thanks.

Without even going into the chosen setup it's obvious that:
a) Higher bandwidth scope = more noise.
b) More expensive 'scope with lower bandwidth = less noise (the Siglent costs 50% more)

Choose your poison.

OTOH: That setup isn't the way that most people will be using their MSO5000 so it's not fair to say "it has a 6-bit ADC", although that's what the Internet will now parrot forever.   :palm:
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 04:57:45 pm »
Test conditions are two posts before in post #1743.

OK, thanks.

Without even going into the chosen setup it's obvious that:
a) Higher bandwidth scope = more noise.
b) More expensive 'scope with lower bandwidth = less noise (the Siglent costs 50% more)
Not really. The numbers from Howard speak for themselves; the Siglent is clearly the best one from the list. I have owned a Keysight DSO7104A myself and the amount of noise (even with the bandwidth limit on) annoyed me a lot because the details of a signal just get drowned in the noise.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline colorado.rob

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2020, 07:31:46 pm »
Is there a benefit to going with one manufacturer?

No.  I have a bunch of Siglent test gear (DMM, Scope, AWG, SpecAn) and non-Siglent gear (DMMs, PSU, various RF gear).

I bought the Siglent gear because they met my measurement requirements for the least cost.  And that is how I recommend you go about making test gear purchasing decisions.

While the Siglent gear I own have similar face plates and look like they should stack well, they do not because they have different depths.  Siglent could have made the AWG 4-5cm longer so it could stack well with the DMM, but they did not do so.  I think when I was looking at the SDL-1000X DC load, it too had a different depth from both the AWG and DMM.

The items you are looking at are certainly reasonable choices at their price point.  And I have found Siglent to be pretty responsive when it comes to adding features and fixing problems in their firmware.
 

Offline Vestom

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2020, 07:32:13 pm »
SDS2000x plus has AWG integrated, not a good one, but it is there and can do bode plot... no need for the DG811
IMHO the AWG is the biggest let-down of the SDS2000X+, which is otherwise a great scope for the price. The hardware seems pretty good with 14bit, 125MS/s and 50MHz BW, but the software implementation is just too basic and only really good for simple fixed (e.g. sine/square) waveforms. No modulation, no pulse train generator, no random noise generator, no noise-on-sine....

The AWG in the SDS2000X+ in its current form is not a replacement for a good signal generator and not up to the implementation in e.g. the R&S RTB2000. However, if Siglent makes a proper signal generator in a future firmware update, this scope is going to be really competitive!

The Bode analyzer functionality is good though (albeit a bit slow).
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Benefits of going with all Siglent setup
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2020, 07:54:54 pm »

While the Siglent gear I own have similar face plates and look like they should stack well, they do not because they have different depths.  Siglent could have made the AWG 4-5cm longer so it could stack well with the DMM, but they did not do so. 

This happens to be my biggest gripe about siglent lol... the front stacks easy but then you have to offset the back end... i typically just stack up circuit board samples to the exact height for spacers
 


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