As the title says, I was thinking about a "best scope under US$1000" (on paper) shootout, just like I did the 1GHz scope shootout video.
What scopes would make that list?
Yes it has to be based on US dollar pricing in the US (or equivalent), as you have to have some reference for such price based shootouts.
I don't see it as being a bang-per-buck shootout, then you get into arguments that some $500 model is the winner. So it's more like what is the best most powerful scope you can get under US$1000.
I will do the work to come up with a suitable list of course, but it will make it easier if people can nominate various models right off the bat.
Will the # of channels matter ?
Including the cost of options if any or just the basic un-optioned cost ?
Will the # of channels matter ?
Including the cost of options if any or just the basic un-optioned cost ?
Which really leads to is it possible to get a sub$1k scope with any additional features a user may need ?
Just look at the 350 MHz SDS2352X-E and drop a couple options in ........
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000x-e/
IMHO US$1000 is a bit of a blank area where it comes to oscilloscopes. A limit of US$2000 would be more sane because that will include way more interesting models which really sit above the low end segment. In that price range you can also get several A-brand scopes.
Will the # of channels matter ?
Including the cost of options if any or just the basic un-optioned cost ?
Well that's always to dilema.
If you pick a dollar limit as the shootout spec then you really have the stick to it. So I'm inclined to say "whatever you can get for US$1000", so I guess that would include an optioned up cheapie.
IMHO US$1000 is a bit of a blank area where it comes to oscilloscopes. A limit of US$2000 would be more sane because that will include way more interesting models which really sit above the low end segment. In that price range you can also get several A-brand scopes.
Could always be a 2nd video?
Or one giant video with different price brackets?
Will the # of channels matter ?
Including the cost of options if any or just the basic un-optioned cost ?
Well that's always to dilema.
If you pick a dollar limit as the shootout spec then you really have the stick to it. So I'm inclined to say "whatever you can get for US$1000", so I guess that would include an optioned up cheapie.
Sure, then that makes this project somewhat complex if you are to exploring all the different feature sets in scopes in this price bracket.
IMHO US$1000 is a bit of a blank area where it comes to oscilloscopes. A limit of US$2000 would be more sane because that will include way more interesting models which really sit above the low end segment. In that price range you can also get several A-brand scopes.
Could always be a 2nd video?
Or one giant video with different price brackets?
Either or both would be welcome. However, seperate videos seem to make more sense to me
I find that 4 channels is a must so something like the Siglent SDS1204X-E would be my vote. You could throw in the licenses for WIFI and AWG in case you want to add them in the near term and still be under the price limit.
You could also look at a "higher end" Hantek like the DSO6204C or MPO6204DD. They have 12bit resolution and 64M memory, not bad. I personally don't know much about them but would like to know more.
So we got Rigol, Siglent, Micsig, GW Instek, Owon, Hantek, Fnirsi and the cheapos from R&S and Keysight.
IMHO:
They should come as they are, so no additional options - what do you get for the money basically.
Then 4-Channels models.
No usb scopes, stand alone models only.
And then the "best" model of every brand up to max 1000 bucks.
Apart from that, in my opinion there are three "magic barriers" under the users(their requests in the forum) here.
Mostly best up to 500, more up to 1000, less up to 1500 and rarely above.
I find that 4 channels is a must so something like the Siglent SDS1204X-E would be my vote.
Must certainly if you need 4 analogue channels to trace logic paths or such but for decoding no, if you have a Clk Timeout feature you can certainly decode 3 wire busses with a 2ch DSO.
These days 4 channels is the minimum I would recommend for someone getting started, the cost difference is just so small.
Decoding i2c buses can be done easily on a $8 logic analyzer, so that is not a redeeming ability IMO.
Anyway, as for the question, I can't see how a hacked MSO5074 would lose based purely on numbers. Real world use, depends on use case.
Anyway, as for the question, I can't see how a hacked MSO5074 would lose based purely on numbers. Real world use, depends on use case.
That is the problem. Lots of features in the lower cost scopes only exist on paper or are implemented in a clumsy way. IOW: In the real world the difference in useability is huge. Sometimes less is more but that is nearly impossible to catch in a datasheet. One of my customers has a Tektronix TBS2000A and even though this is a bare bones DSO (no decoding or anything fancy) it is a joy to use compared to the cheap Rigol they also have.
Or a good old Waverunner from the early 2000s.
As the MSO5000 from rigol came up (and I´ve bought it), they talk about the benefit of having a 5 in 1 instrument - And I was thinking, would it be not better to have one in one...
And doesn´t make it anyone suspicious that the actual expensive scopes do not have all the fancy stuff ?
These days 4 channels is the minimum I would recommend for someone getting started, the cost difference is just so small.
Yet a good portion of our sales are to those stepping up from a CRO and even after years of hobbyist use they can't/don't see a need for 4 channels for what they do. Most often they select the SDS1202X-E for raw and cheap BW as it's more valuable to them than an additional 2 channels.
However I quite agree for those entering the industry/hobby a 4ch DSO offers better choices to grow into as skills develop but no way would we push a mandatory requirement for 4 channels onto anyone although the range of choices available in just the last 10 years is phenomenal.
I think there would be viewing interest/hunger for that 'economy' category, the Fnirsi, Owon, Hantek. There remains sustained activity on the forums on these, the vendors must sell a lot of them, they all have engineering and design 'issues', but which is the best compromise? Besides, the Owon HDS portable and the isolated USB one (VDS1022I) are quite interesting/distinctive devices. An informed side-by-side review of them all with commentary on what you can get done with them and where they fall short (as a category) would generate a lot of interest. I don't think a blow by blow exhausive feature review is actually needed in this category, just pointed insights to sort them out. The emergence of this category seems to have caused an interesting 'inversion' of prices on Ebay where some older generation DSOs are selling cheaper than much older analogue -- should economy buyers consider any used DSOs instead?
Then the $500 benchtop category with the usual suspects: Siglent, Rigol, Micsig, GW Instek. People will be looking more closely at performance/quality/feature differentiators (but you have existing material on many of them).
Maybe push the $1000 category up to $1500 if the product 'capture' isn't right. People will want to see the new Rigol and the Siglent SDS2000X Plus in the pool, won't they?
I think the Rigol MSO5000 series is a great deal. US$909 gets you started.
I think “Best Scopes” —plural— would be a more manageable (and more interesting) guide. Pick a few of EEVblog’s primary interest groups (curious beginner, dedicated hobbyist, professional —whatever) and define a couple of likely price points around each. That would give you some flexibility to consider the relative value of various features/options. Then maybe pick a “best” in each category that fits your definition of a quality product. With this approach, I think you could cast the net for eligible interesting products to compare both under and over $1000.
However I quite agree for those entering the industry/hobby a 4ch DSO offers better choices to grow into as skills develop but no way would we push a mandatory requirement for 4 channels onto anyone although the range of choices available in just the last 10 years is phenomenal.
Just as an aside, I think it would be interesting to do a video on the development of DSO's and the major ones that "changed the game" over the last say 30 years.
However I quite agree for those entering the industry/hobby a 4ch DSO offers better choices to grow into as skills develop but no way would we push a mandatory requirement for 4 channels onto anyone although the range of choices available in just the last 10 years is phenomenal.
Just as an aside, I think it would be interesting to do a video on the development of DSO's and the major ones that "changed the game" over the last say 30 years.
That sounds like an interesting video
No, I am serious here. It would be a good path down memory lane and shine a light on how certain features became standard, who pioneered them and what features went away.
Edit: 4 versus 2 channels depends on what you need. There is no golden rule except for: if you have the money, get as many channels as possible.
I think there would be viewing interest/hunger for that 'economy' category, the Fnirsi, Owon, Hantek.
That would be another interesting video "What is the lowest cost USABLE bench scope". You would have to differentiate between bench and handheld here I think.
Decoding i2c buses can be done easily on a $8 logic analyzer.
But not in real time. With one of those you have to be constantly hitting "record" then "stop", then go looking for the data. It's a complete pain in the ass.
On a 'scope I can set up a trigger and watch the data protocol in real time without touching a single thing.
so that is not a redeeming ability IMO.
Yes it is.
That would be another interesting video "What is the lowest cost USABLE bench scope". You would have to differentiate between bench and handheld here I think.
Why does it matter if it's handheld or not? A lot of handhelds can be plugged in and left running all day.
A recurring theme on EEVBLOG is why aren't those Owons/Hantek bench 'scopes worth buying? They
look just like Rigols/Siglents in adverts.
Why is Rigol the starting point for "an oscilloscope actually worth owning"?