Best desoldering station on the market?

[ElectronicsNewbie]

Hi guys,

I have been using my ZD desoldering iron for a pretty long time. It is just one like below:


You may find it under different brands, models (some with additional: iron tool or hot air tool).

The problem is that I often get tempted to get something better so here we have this thread 

First of all, let's talk about pumps. There are some that use electric pump, and some that need shop air.
What's the difference in performance in real word scenario? I don't have the shop air pump but I may consider it, because it has other useful uses.

To be honest with you, I don't lack that much pressure with ZD, but it's biggest flaw is it's low thermal capacity. I know the mass of the tip is huge compared to the standard soldering iron tip but the heating element isn't very effective at all. To melt some lead free solder joints on a multi layer PCB or on a ground plane I need to rise the temp up. which is always risky. Of course, I could get help myself with soldering iron or some preheater, but on the other hand the ZD desoldering tip itself looks crap compared to the most recent type from Pace.

Does anyone have some hands-on experience on this topic?

[fivefish]

I use a Hakko desoldering gun. Very satisfied with it. My only complaint with it is the maintenance needed, otherwise you can clog the nozzle and obstruct it with lead solder or small cut component leads.

Before the Hakko, I bought a cheap chinese desoldering gun (handheld tool similar to what you have). I didn't like it. I threw it away.

[ElectronicsNewbie]

I think this will be something like: Pace ST115 vs Hakko FR400 vs JBC or OKI Metcal.

I would prefer the the larger foot print size unit than a hand held gun.

[helius]

The units that use shop air and a venturi device have higher flow rates and greater vacuum.

Here is a comparison of three Hakko models:
The FR-300 is handheld like the one pictured above; the 472 is a diaphragm air pump bench unit, and the 473 is shop air bench unit.

	FR-300	472	473
Absorption: (lpm)	11	12	28
Vacuum: (mm Hg)	610	600	700

[KJDS]

My favourite three are Pace, followed by Pace followed by Pace.

Every other one that I've used has driven me round the bend.

[fivefish]

Too strong vacuum power (coupled with high heat) can lift copper pads and get sucked into the nozzle... (if I'm not careful, it happens with the Hakko 808)

[ElectronicsNewbie]

As I wrote before, I don't lack the sucking power  O0

I wonder if there is a difference in reliability between those two types of pumps?

KJDS, if you know, if you have tried.... how does the Pace handpiece does the job in tight places compared to pistol handpiece?

[motocoder]

I have the Hakko FR-300 and really like it. I should prefer a bench unit though - a bit of a pain to drag it out every time I need to desolder something.

[ElectronicsNewbie]

I have the Hakko FR-300 and really like it. I should prefer a bench unit though - a bit of a pain to drag it out every time I need to desolder something.

I'm not sure but FR-300 doesn't have on-off switch and you would need to pay extra for some kind of stand for it.

[motocoder]

I have the Hakko FR-300 and really like it. I should prefer a bench unit though - a bit of a pain to drag it out every time I need to desolder something.

I'm not sure but FR-300 doesn't have on-off switch and you would need to pay extra for some kind of stand for it.

It is also true what was said about maintenance on it. You need to remember to clean it before shutting it off, or it will clog. I recently broke off the drill bit that is used to clear the tip. It snapped off inside the tip, and it took me 15 minutes to get it back out. I am not sure, though, if perhaps all these units have similar maintenance requirements.

[Deathwish]

My favourite three are Pace, followed by Pace followed by Pace.

Every other one that I've used has driven me round the bend.

sell me one

[dr.diesel]

Not cheap but you asked for the best, I've got a Hakko FM-206 rework station, small and compact, best I've ever used, by far.

A bit loud stock, fan mod required for home lab use.

[KJDS]

My favourite three are Pace, followed by Pace followed by Pace.

Every other one that I've used has driven me round the bend.

sell me one

I'll have a rummage round and see if I can put together a complete one.

[GlowingGhoul]

Get a Pace and you won't feel the need to upgrade any time soon.

[Deathwish]

My favourite three are Pace, followed by Pace followed by Pace.

Every other one that I've used has driven me round the bend.

sell me one

 

I'll have a rummage round and see if I can put together a complete one.

[KJDS]

I'll order some new bits tomorrow, I've got one, but it's more corroded than a 1980's Lancia.

[Deathwish]

I'll order some new bits tomorrow, I've got one, but it's more corroded than a 1980's Lancia.

That must be bad then. pm me when you want to talk costs etc ok.

[ElectronicsNewbie]

Not cheap but you asked for the best, I've got a Hakko FM-206 rework station, small and compact, best I've ever used, by far.

A bit loud stock, fan mod required for home lab use.

Have you tried Pace? Please, could you compare your experiences regarding Hakko and Pace?

Thanks

[dr.diesel]

Sorry, been using the Hakko too long to give an honest comparison.  But IIRC, the Pace doesn't have quick change heads right, at least not on the DeSolder?

[0xdeadbeef]

I'll just throw in my Metcal/OKi MFR-1350 here:
http://www.okinternational.com/hand-soldering-systems/id-MFR-1350/Desoldering_System_Internal_Pump
Not quite cheap, but also serves as base for a soldering iron.
I used one of these Chinese things before and IMHO, it's no comparison. You can also detach the pistol grip and use it like a (fat) pen. That's actually how I use it.
Only slightly annoying thing is that the membrane pump starts to run for a short period every time you switch the station on - even if you just want to solder something.

[mos6502]

Don't forget the Denon:

[GlowingGhoul]

Sorry, been using the Hakko too long to give an honest comparison.  But IIRC, the Pace doesn't have quick change heads right, at least not on the DeSolder?

Hakko desoldering stations, particularly the one's with "quick change heads" have terrible reports regarding failures happening with multiple units.

Here's just one source of reviews indicating a real quality problem with Hakko http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FR-300-FR300-Desoldering-Tool/dp/B00KWM69C4/

[KJDS]

Sorry, been using the Hakko too long to give an honest comparison.  But IIRC, the Pace doesn't have quick change heads right, at least not on the DeSolder?

Loosen a grub screw, pull out tip, slide in new one and tighten screw.

Note to self, see if Pace also sell replacement grub screws, otherwise I'll have to have some fun cutting screw threads on my lathe.

[mos6502]

Sorry, been using the Hakko too long to give an honest comparison.  But IIRC, the Pace doesn't have quick change heads right, at least not on the DeSolder?

Loosen a grub screw, pull out tip, slide in new one and tighten screw.

Note to self, see if Pace also sell replacement grub screws, otherwise I'll have to have some fun cutting screw threads on my lathe.

That seems like a much worse construction than the ZD985.

[ElectronicsNewbie]

Sorry, been using the Hakko too long to give an honest comparison.  But IIRC, the Pace doesn't have quick change heads right, at least not on the DeSolder?

Loosen a grub screw, pull out tip, slide in new one and tighten screw.

Note to self, see if Pace also sell replacement grub screws, otherwise I'll have to have some fun cutting screw threads on my lathe.

That seems like a much worse construction than the ZD985.

I'm not sure about this, because Pace uses this type of attaching with a screw since early 80's...

I'll just throw in my Metcal/OKi MFR-1350 here:
http://www.okinternational.com/hand-soldering-systems/id-MFR-1350/Desoldering_System_Internal_Pump
Not quite cheap, but also serves as base for a soldering iron.
I used one of these Chinese things before and IMHO, it's no comparison. You can also detach the pistol grip and use it like a (fat) pen. That's actually how I use it.
Only slightly annoying thing is that the membrane pump starts to run for a short period every time you switch the station on - even if you just want to solder something.

Do you mind if I ask you where did you get it and how much did you pay for it? Does it have controllable temp. settings?


Any Hakko FR400 users here?

[0xdeadbeef]

Do you mind if I ask you where did you get it and how much did you pay for it? Does it have controllable temp. settings?

Voelkner and Conrad sell it in Germany:
http://www.voelkner.de/products/529596/OKI-by-Metcal-Loet-Entloetstation-analog-110-W-MFR-1350-10-bis-40-C.html
I bought mine from Voelkner via Amazon and for whatever reason, it was quite a bit cheaper this way back then.

Regarding temperature settings: like any other Metcal/OKi product, the desoldering gun of the MFR-1350 uses a "SmartHeat"
HF approach where the temperature is selected via the tip but actually, letting aside very special applications, you will
always use the default temperature tips. I was also skeptical at 1st but actually not having to care about a temperature
setting is a great relief. Indeed every time I needed to set the temperature on my previous soldering equipment, it was
only because it couldn't keep the set temperature when (de-)soldering stuff from/to the ground plane or other cases
where there was a large thermal capacity. With the SmartHeat stuff, you barely notice that something has high thermal
capacity. Stuff like de-/soldering full metal BNC connectors works like a charm without cranking up the temperature to
crazy values.

[ElectronicsNewbie]

Do you mind if I ask you where did you get it and how much did you pay for it? Does it have controllable temp. settings?

Voelkner and Conrad sell it in Germany:
http://www.voelkner.de/products/529596/OKI-by-Metcal-Loet-Entloetstation-analog-110-W-MFR-1350-10-bis-40-C.html
I bought mine from Voelkner via Amazon and for whatever reason, it was quite a bit cheaper this way back then.

Regarding temperature settings: like any other Metcal/OKi product, the desoldering gun of the MFR-1350 uses a "SmartHeat"
HF approach where the temperature is selected via the tip but actually, letting aside very special applications, you will
always use the default temperature tips. I was also skeptical at 1st but actually not having to care about a temperature
setting is a great relief. Indeed every time I needed to set the temperature on my previous soldering equipment, it was
only because it couldn't keep the set temperature when (de-)soldering stuff from/to the ground plane or other cases
where there was a large thermal capacity. With the SmartHeat stuff, you barely notice that something has high thermal
capacity. Stuff like de-/soldering full metal BNC connectors works like a charm without cranking up the temperature to
crazy values.

Thanks a lot for your input!

Indeed, Metcal looks pretty interesting.
We also have Conrad.pl here but it's a bit more expensive (about 4% more) compared to Conrad.de

So:
Metcal is 687EUR inc. VAT
Pace is 907EUR inc. VAT

Now comsumables:
Pace tips are around 27USD (5-pack) for a standard thermal mass and 60USD for high thermal mass
Pace also has tips to clean the pads that cost 36USD (5-pack)
Pace solder "one cycle life" container costs 14USD (10-pack)

Metcal offers ONLY one tip for 34EUR (both for standard and high thermal mass)
Metcal solder container costs 14 EUR (10-pack)


I think that, when you are replacing in Pace a "one cycle life" container there is no need to replace the small filter within it, where with Metcal you have to add a fresh one.

0xdeadbeef you also have mentioned somewhere about a metal piece that gets smaller, wears out with time?

At first look, the Metcal seemed cheaper then Pace but the tips are way more expensive for Metcal. Replacing a full container seems also to be more expensive...

[0xdeadbeef]

0xdeadbeef you also have mentioned somewhere about a metal piece that gets smaller, wears out with time?

Did I? Can't recall and it's not like anything ever got smaller on my  Metcal/OKi stuff...
Or do you mean the metal wool in the container? If so, see below...

At first look, the Metcal seemed cheaper then Pace but the tips are way more expensive for Metcal. Replacing a full container seems also to be more expensive...

Regarding the containers: I guess you don't want to use them until they are full. However you can use one of them for quite some time if you empty them after each desoldering session.
They are small cartridge barrels with a metal wool pad and a paper filter. Solder gets stuck in the metal wool, but you can take it out and clean it. Actually, you can buy fine
metal wool and put a small ball/pad of it inside the barrel as replacement. So this is IMHO not a real cost factor.
Admittedly, the tips are somewhat expensive. That's a drawback of the SmartHeat stuff. I bought three tips sizes which is good enough for everything I needed up to now.

[Fried Chicken]

Not cheap but you asked for the best, I've got a Hakko FM-206 rework station, small and compact, best I've ever used, by far.

A bit loud stock, fan mod required for home lab use.

I just got the FM-206;  Which fan did you use/recommend?

[beatman]

https://www.sat-center.gr/en/home/Professional/tools/proskit-ss-331b-digital-desoldering-station.html

[audiotubes]

I have the Hakko FR-300 and really like it. I should prefer a bench unit though - a bit of a pain to drag it out every time I need to desolder something.

I'm not sure but FR-300 doesn't have on-off switch and you would need to pay extra for some kind of stand for it.

I use the FR-301, it has a switch, the Hakko stand cost me 40 euros. The FR-301 does jam occasionally with solder but it's easy to clear. They provide a lot of accessories in the FR-301 kit including a long poker.

Probably the worst thing about the FR-301 is that the nozzles are expensive. I don't remember exactly but I think around 60 euros a piece.

Mine sits next to my Hakko and Pace stations, it takes up less bench space than either one. I'm sure it's not the best desoldering station but it might be the best cost/benefit station.

[Pinkus]

https://www.sat-center.gr/en/home/Professional/tools/proskit-ss-331b-digital-desoldering-station.html

Way too expensive - this ZD-8915 can be purchased for less than half the price elsewhere.
However, this ZD-8915 looks similar to the ZD-915 from the first post - just with a more modern housing: weight, suction strength (vacuum) and heat production (Watt) is the same as with the old version. My guess is: there is no substantial difference but one, that disqualifies it in the workshop: the power switch is on the back   .
I (rarely) use a ZD-915 myself, and I'm generally fine with it - but not totally and not always. Thus I also wonder (like the poster in the first post) whether there are dramatically better tools available. Maybe someone has switched from a ZD-915 to another brand and can contribute to the initial question: how big is the difference?
Remark: perhaps the thread owner 0xdeadbeef has switched to a different system in the meantime and can report on this?

[BillyGo]

I think the easiest solution is to stick with the ZD you are currently using but replace the mini vacuum pump with a tank and connect it with external vacuum sources

[printplaatreparatie]

Found this thread looking for a replacement for our MX-DS1. I'm so done with it. 5 years of clogging and expensive maintenance. I had long drills made for me to help unclog the tips, which helped, but even then I spent hundreds a year on those expensive tips. Handpiece (venturi) needs cleaning as well, which requires serious disassembly. Now that the electrical connector on the back has given the ghost it is finally time to say goodbye to this station. It is okay for hobby, but not suitable for daily work.

Is the Pace ST115 really that much better? I'm a bit on the fence about the internal pump. I do like the instantaneous vacuum that the shop air creates with the venturi but I don't like the noise of the air compressor.

Let me know if you are interested in a a free MX-DS1 handpiece. I have 2 pcs, as well as one stand, two working tips and the specially made drills to unclog those tips.

[Fried Chicken]

Found this thread looking for a replacement for our MX-DS1. I'm so done with it. 5 years of clogging and expensive maintenance. I had long drills made for me to help unclog the tips, which helped, but even then I spent hundreds a year on those expensive tips. Handpiece (venturi) needs cleaning as well, which requires serious disassembly. Now that the electrical connector on the back has given the ghost it is finally time to say goodbye to this station. It is okay for hobby, but not suitable for daily work.

Is the Pace ST115 really that much better? I'm a bit on the fence about the internal pump. I do like the instantaneous vacuum that the shop air creates with the venturi but I don't like the noise of the air compressor.

Let me know if you are interested in a a free MX-DS1 handpiece. I have 2 pcs, as well as one stand, two working tips and the specially made drills to unclog those tips.

I am very happy with my Hakko (I have the FM-206 with the associated handpiece).

I believe there's an older Hakko that can be had used (with parts still available) that's similarly fantastic.  Vacuum desolder  is a finnicky and not-straightforward affair, so it's worth going with a company that has the experience, knowhow, and ability to implement attention to detail.

[helius]

Is the Pace ST115 really that much better? I'm a bit on the fence about the internal pump. I do like the instantaneous vacuum that the shop air creates with the venturi but I don't like the noise of the air compressor.

The Pace stations do something clever, which I think they patented: the pump is 12 VDC, but they pulse 24 V into it so that absorption is fast. The Hakko FR-301 is also fast because the pump is close to the working end.

Clogging is a matter of solder freezing in the handpiece before it reaches the collection tube. You can reduce clogging by leaving the pump running long enough to clear it each time: 2 seconds is the recommended time. There are a lot of different designs to try to reduce clogging by changing how fast liquid solder moves through the tip; Pace's nozzles for the SX-70, SX-80, and SX-90 are all different, because they lengthened and narrowed the "tail" of the tip to try to accelerate solder into the trap.

I wonder if you could just shoot some "carb cleaner" into the venturi?