Author Topic: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023  (Read 17659 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2023, 03:46:12 pm »
"What car should I buy?"

First thing I consider, will it get me from A to B reliably.  Maybe you have kids and are concerned with safety...    Agree, there are so many variables to consider.  Same for meters and why I seldom offer advice beyond do your homework.     

Online bdunham7

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2023, 04:38:12 pm »
First thing I consider, will it get me from A to B reliably.  Maybe you have kids and are concerned with safety... 

I doubt anyone wants an unreliable and dangerous car.  But how does one actually determine those things?  Just saying "do your homework" isn't very helpful.  Suppose I agree and want a safe car (why would I need to have kids to want a safe car...) and I want it to be reliable.  What factors are most important in determining what make/model meets my needs?  The reputation and historical performance of the manufacturer and perhaps specific model?  Insurance instititute or NHTSA ratings and crash tests?  Teardowns by Sandy Munro?  Opinions by Youtubers?  Should I reject an entire brand because they built a particularly unreliable model 40+ years ago?  Or because I saw one involved in a fatal accident in the news? 



A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2023, 05:03:46 pm »
"What car should I buy?"

First thing I consider, will it get me from A to B reliably.

The biggest factor in long-term car reliability is usually how easy it is for non-qualified people to tinker with it in the name of "improvement".  :)

It's not correlated with price. Some of the least reliable cars are made by luxury brands, some of the most reliable are cheap imports.
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2023, 05:27:48 pm »
The biggest factor in long-term car reliability is usually how easy it is for non-qualified people to tinker with it in the name of "improvement".  :)

It's not correlated with price. Some of the least reliable cars are made by luxury brands, some of the most reliable are cheap imports.

I'll disagree strongly with your first point and agree with the second, to a point.  The most reliable versions don't need improving or tinkering and just because any idiot with a crowbar can get your Lada running again doesn't make it a great car.  I recently rode in a rather beat down taxicab that was a Prius V with 354k miles (566,000km) on the odometer.  This is actually quite  typical and not the first very-high-mileage Prius I've seen.  A Prius is not a car that you can do much improvement on or (unqualified) tinkering with.  Perhaps you can rebuild the battery packs if you watch a few videos and are somewhat handy.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2023, 06:20:40 pm »
The biggest factor in long-term car reliability is usually how easy it is for non-qualified people to tinker with it in the name of "improvement".  :)

I'll disagree strongly with your first point and agree with the second, to a point.  The most reliable versions don't need improving or tinkering and just because any idiot with a crowbar can get your Lada running again doesn't make it a great car.

Oh, I phrased that badly...  :-DD

I meant to say tinkering generally makes a car less reliable.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2023, 06:32:21 pm »
First thing I consider, will it get me from A to B reliably.  Maybe you have kids and are concerned with safety... 
I doubt anyone wants an unreliable and dangerous car.
People still buy French, Italian and US made cars... So plenty of peope around that don't care  >:D A couple of years ago I saw picture of an accident where a VW Golf got hit buy a car from the side while waiting for a traffic light. The VW Golf got pushed into a Chrysler PT cruiser standing next to it. The PT cruiser was almost completely destroyed and the people inside got killed. The driver of the WV Golf walked away even though his/her car got the full hit.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 06:34:25 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2023, 06:40:41 pm »
What's the problem with leaving them in?
My Fluke 3000FC draws ~5nA in OFF state, 1587 draws ~40nA. That's not zero ;D

The problem here is battery self discharge. Can't leave them in the drawer and expect them to be just fine indefinitely. Not to mention chemical leakage etc.
Battery self discharge is the least of the problems. The modern day batteries are utter crap. Recently I found a timer (the ones you use for cooking) that has been in a drawer for 30 years or so. The panasonic battery that came with it still provided some power and had not leaked at all. The secret to success: made in Japan. IMHO you should consider getting a bench meter unless you really need the portability. There is a huge range of cheap 4.5 digit bench meters out there which are excellent replacements for handhelds where it comes to electronics work.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2023, 06:49:28 pm »
People still buy French, Italian and US made cars... So plenty of peope around that don't care

Just because they don't know doesn't mean they don't care or that they specifically want a dangerous car.  Which is pretty much my whole point--how should they know beforehand, especially when it comes to reliability?

However, I can't imagine what the buyer of a PT Cruiser would be thinking, that's a pretty egregious POS. 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 06:51:25 pm by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2023, 06:54:35 pm »
I doubt anyone wants an unreliable and dangerous car.

But try suggesting somebody could own an "unsafe" multimeter around here, watch what happens...  :popcorn:
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2023, 07:14:19 pm »
The modern day batteries are utter crap.

The solution is simple--don't buy the crap ones.



Quote
There is a huge range of cheap 4.5 digit bench meters out there which are excellent replacements for handhelds where it comes to electronics work.

Agreed, although this probably isn't what you had in mind...



Agreed, although this probably isn't what you had in mind...

« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 07:17:34 pm by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2023, 07:37:12 pm »
Quote from: bdunham7
The modern day batteries are utter crap.

The solution is simple--don't buy the crap ones.




Yep. There's zero excuse for putting up with leaky batteries. If a battery wrecks one of your devices after reading this post then it's 100% YOUR fault.

Don't blame "Duracell", don't blame "Energizer", blame yourself.
 
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2023, 01:12:18 pm »
As I mentioned before, we used to watch them at work after hours before heading out.  You took offense to the last time I mentioned this and wanted to know why we stopped watching.  I think you were upset that we found some of that early footage comical and very entertaining rather than viewing you as some master in the field.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about  :-//     

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I've suggested you ban the account if it causes you too much grief.

LOL. I get thousands of people say order of magnitude worser things to me than anything you've ever said or implied, and I don't ban them. it's water off a ducks back. Quack.
 
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2023, 01:28:34 pm »
IMHO, shootout comparisons can be helpful for a newbie who just wants someone to offer a reasonable suggestion, but ultimately it's a no-win situation for the content creator and the buyer likely will be unhappy at some point in the future.  (I even have this issue with friends/family who ask me for recommendations.)  Products can come and go, and there is always the peanut gallery rightly pointing out things.  But with that said, the individual content about a product is still there, so if you're window shopping it can be helpful.

One of the values in a shootout is making it obvious that some meters just don't make the cut. i.e. why on earth would you buy meter X when meter Y is better in almost every way for the same price/size/feature set or whatever.
This was pretty clear in my pocket meter shootout. Yet if you reviewed them individually and didn't compare, then you could find reasons without that comparison why it's not that bad.

This is why it's important to compare meters in the same price or some other specific category.

But yes, any creator will cop heat any way they do it because it didn't include the meter they wanted, or some model is way cheaper in their country etc. It's always a no-win.
 
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2023, 01:33:11 pm »
The newbie "what should I buy?" question is always impossible to answer because the devices don't all cost the exact same amount of money and no general shootout can ever take into account what the newbie will be using it for. Everything device has strengths and weaknesses.

One of the biggest complaints I get in reviews and shootouts is the price. "Why didn't you include the price in country X?"  ::)
It gets unwieldy when you include a couple countries, let alone say a dozen of the major ones.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2023, 01:38:08 pm »
Teardowns by Sandy Munro?  Opinions by Youtubers?

Like it or not, people watch Youtubers for a reason, it's in the name YOUtube. They watch YOU for YOUR opinion whether us creators like that or not.
Joe for example might think he's not offering an opinion, and that he's just doing the tests and presenting the data, but it's way more than that. Viewers are taking subtle clues from what he says and the way he says it etc. Welcome to the human race.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2023, 02:15:14 pm »
The modern day batteries are utter crap.

There is a huge range of cheap 4.5 digit bench meters out there which are excellent replacements for handhelds where it comes to electronics work.

Agreed, although this probably isn't what you had in mind...
No. More along the line of bench DMMs from GW Instek, Vichy, Owon, Uni-t, etc.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2023, 04:30:07 pm »
IMHO, shootout comparisons can be helpful for a newbie who just wants someone to offer a reasonable suggestion, but ultimately it's a no-win situation for the content creator and the buyer likely will be unhappy at some point in the future.

The newbie "what should I buy?" question is always impossible to answer because the devices don't all cost the exact same amount of money and no general shootout can ever take into account what the newbie will be using it for. Everything device has strengths and weaknesses.

It's much easier to see if I ask you "What car should I buy?" How on earth would anybody tell me that in a Forum? Even if you knew my income, marital status, distance to my work, weekly activities, twice-yearly activities, garage size, latitude, etc., you still don't know how tall I am, what sort of roads I drive on, crime rate in my area, whether I want new or second hand, how handy I am with a spanner, etc., etc.

Even if I know all other things about you I can't recommend a car for you either. Only you would know.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2023, 08:11:23 pm »
First thing I consider, will it get me from A to B reliably.  Maybe you have kids and are concerned with safety... 

I doubt anyone wants an unreliable and dangerous car.  But how does one actually determine those things?  Just saying "do your homework" isn't very helpful.  Suppose I agree and want a safe car (why would I need to have kids to want a safe car...) and I want it to be reliable.  What factors are most important in determining what make/model meets my needs?  The reputation and historical performance of the manufacturer and perhaps specific model?  Insurance instititute or NHTSA ratings and crash tests?  Teardowns by Sandy Munro?  Opinions by Youtubers?  Should I reject an entire brand because they built a particularly unreliable model 40+ years ago?  Or because I saw one involved in a fatal accident in the news?

It's the consumer's job to sort out.    Another one to consider: https://www.consumerreports.org/   Good thing is we are living in a time where so much of that data is easy to come by.   

I just bought a new helmet as mine are past their dead date.   I could buy something that meets DOT, but instead buy products that pass Snell's testing.   https://smf.org/about     

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2023, 08:41:27 pm »
As I mentioned before, we used to watch them at work after hours before heading out.  You took offense to the last time I mentioned this and wanted to know why we stopped watching.  I think you were upset that we found some of that early footage comical and very entertaining rather than viewing you as some master in the field.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about  :-//     

Oh, it sounded like you were keeping a score card.   

Quote
I've suggested you ban the account if it causes you too much grief.
LOL. I get thousands of people say order of magnitude worser things to me than anything you've ever said or implied, and I don't ban them. it's water off a ducks back. Quack.
Not sure why you brought it up yet again that I've got something against you.   Obviously, something is triggering you.  I stay out of discussion on  religion, politics, anti-vax....   Maybe it's my comments on the 121GW.  You would think that would be the one area you wouldn't care.     Anyway, offer stands if you want to blab direct.


Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2023, 08:59:34 pm »
Teardowns by Sandy Munro?  Opinions by Youtubers?

Like it or not, people watch Youtubers for a reason, it's in the name YOUtube. They watch YOU for YOUR opinion whether us creators like that or not.
Joe for example might think he's not offering an opinion, and that he's just doing the tests and presenting the data, but it's way more than that. Viewers are taking subtle clues from what he says and the way he says it etc. Welcome to the human race.

It's a tiny channel and I doubt it has much influence.   As far as being a "no win", I guess from a financial perspective, I agree in my case.   But consider I'm running these tests out of personal curiosity, and if I'm learning something from them, then I consider it a win.     

Offline bidule

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #70 on: July 04, 2023, 07:30:00 am »
This article is of-course bogus. But seriously, who on Youtube does not shill?
 

Offline Codebotjoe

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2023, 09:40:39 am »
I was in a toss up between the 121gw and the bm869s and I had the eevblog bm786 so I got the brymen from the polite sales people at Welectron and there was an issue wirh the buzzer not latching and they wanted me to send it on my dime to Germany from nova Scotia because their site for an rma postage slip didn't support Canada. I had it less then a month so it was a matter of principal and they were less than helpful. I ended up fixing it myself and refrained from an ebay complaint as I know I was an anomaly. They could've given me a partial refund but I didn't ask and insulted them. My mother spoke German so I picked up some silly insults as a child. I feel bad about it now and I'm soured using it so I went back to mu old one. The 121gw will be added to my collection next as long as they don't drain my sunbeam batteries when it goes into standby hahaha. What a video. Fella gets one for free and complains about it. Complains about his free scope and was given a tek dmm916 that he doesn't use as well. It's a great old meter. I have one as well.

You should do a pimp your meter series joe. Someone sends in one with a few hundred bucks and put it through the ringer then repair it haha. I'd encase it in acrylic in an exploded view with lit labels showing the mods haha.

Just one man's opinion haha.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2023, 05:56:28 pm »
You should do a pimp your meter series joe. Someone sends in one with a few hundred bucks and put it through the ringer then repair it haha. I'd encase it in acrylic in an exploded view with lit labels showing the mods haha.

I think you greatly underestimate what is involved.  First, very few meters are actually ever able to be repaired.  Most go to the recycle bins.  It's only the upper class of meters that I have looked at that could be repaired.  You may need two meters minimum.   

Higher class meters take more time to test.   Plus you have the down time of the equipment.  Maybe two days of work spread out over a week or two.  Then there is the legal side.  Contacts, liability... 

Of course, there is also the reverse engineering, the assuming coming up with what ever design changes ...  More testing...

That seems like a huge effort, even if you increased the payment by a couple of magnitudes.    My advice is if you want something robust, just by it.  Stick with the brands that have a proven track record.   The fact you're talking about getting a 121GW with known problems like cracking plastics, tells me that's not all that important. 



Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2023, 08:47:04 pm »
But seriously, who on Youtube does not shill?

Big Clive, Uncle Tony's Garage, AvE, This Old Tony, Thunderfoot, Techmoan, 12voltvids, CuriousMarc, Photonicinduction, Sam Zeloof; I could go on but I hope you get the point.
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: Agilent-AVO-BlackStar-Brymen-Chauvin Arnoux-Fluke-GenRad-Hameg-HP-Keithley-IsoTech-Mastech-Megger-Metrix-Micronta-Racal-RFL-Siglent-Solartron-Tektronix-Thurlby-Time Electronics-TTi-UniT
 
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Offline lordstein

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Re: Best Digital Multimeters of 2023
« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2023, 02:24:13 am »
Hello, I have had a uni-t ut58c (manual range) since 2015 and it has worked very well, but with use and several falls its display is already damaged, and I think that at any moment it will fail completely, I have tried several cheap multimeters from other brands and the uni-t brand as well.

but I have not found one with the following characteristics (the ut58c has them)
-super fast continuity test speed.
-loud and clear continuity sound (I'm a little deaf already)
-rapid acquisition of voltage measurement
-screen with big numbers

something good that is also desirable
-firm stand (I can manipulate it with one hand)
- the screen is not as affected by light reflections.

I would like to know which would be the best option for up to about 200usd, the precision and resolution or display counts, as well as its cat certifications are not so important, since I only use it for repairs of electronic equipment (notebook mostly)

 


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