Good multimeter for Industrial use at work (Fluke alternatives)

[Fungus]

One thing to add: In which environment are those UPS used? If they feed into some main distribution cabinet of a sufficient size and short circuit potential, you are easily in a CAT IV zone- and then there is a limited choice of manufacturers I would trust.

In that case a CAT IV 1000V BM869 would be a step up from the Flukes they're currently using...

[BeBuLamar]

Brymen may be just as good or better but if I work for your company and you provide me with Brymen I won't be happy.

[MerlijnD]

Brymen may be just as good or better but if I work for your company and you provide me with Brymen I won't be happy.

Why not?

[MerlijnD]

One thing to add: In which environment are those UPS used? If they feed into some main distribution cabinet of a sufficient size and short circuit potential, you are easily in a CAT IV zone- and then there is a limited choice of manufacturers I would trust. And then, including yearly cal and needed turnaround times, Fluke sometimes offers good longterm value, all costs added over a longer time.

Yes all mains goes through the UPS by ride through method.  And yes; during maintenance/repairs/overhauls main distribution gets touched but supplies are de-energized and switched through switching procedures. Multimeters are mostly used for cabinet work (LV).

[AVGresponding]

Brymen may be just as good or better but if I work for your company and you provide me with Brymen I won't be happy.

Why not?

Presumably because Fluke have a proven track record in industrial grade TE and Brymen don't, yet.

The scariest thing about working on serious UPS systems for me was always the battery strings; you get a short within the string (fuses are normally only at the ends) on a big one and it can be spectacular, loud, and very dangerous. I don't envy anyone that has to work on modern ones with big lithium strings.

We were always issued with Fluke meters, (I had an 83 and a 95), and though I'm a Fluke fanboy still (too many to list, but 87V daily at work and 289 daily at home), but I also really like my Brymen 869S, it's a damn good bit of kit, and I'd be happy to trust it at work if I didn't already have the F87V.

[Monkeh]

Brymen may be just as good or better but if I work for your company and you provide me with Brymen I won't be happy.

Being proud of irrational bias is not a good look. An engineer who can't make a judgement on the suitability of a tool based on any metric but name and price is not an engineer worth hiring.

[MerlijnD]

Brymen may be just as good or better but if I work for your company and you provide me with Brymen I won't be happy.

Why not?

Presumably because Fluke have a proven track record in industrial grade TE and Brymen don't, yet.

The scariest thing about working on serious UPS systems for me was always the battery strings; you get a short within the string (fuses are normally only at the ends) on a big one and it can be spectacular, loud, and very dangerous. I don't envy anyone that has to work on modern ones with big lithium strings.

We were always issued with Fluke meters, (I had an 83 and a 95), and though I'm a Fluke fanboy still (too many to list, but 87V daily at work and 289 daily at home), but I also really like my Brymen 869S, it's a damn good bit of kit, and I'd be happy to trust it at work if I didn't already have the F87V.

We don't do lithium, its kinetic. (DRUPS - Diesel Rotary uninterruptible power supply)

[bdunham7]

Being proud of irrational bias is not a good look. An engineer who can't make a judgement on the suitability of a tool based on any metric but name and price is not an engineer worth hiring.

It's not irrational to factor in decades of experience with a product and a company or even to value those things more highly than advertised specs and low cost.  Then there is the secondary matter of workflow and procedures, where any change may cause an issue at some point.  Fluke's tradition of continuing particular models as long as possible (and sometimes even longer than you'd think possible) is a big plus for many customers. 

[Swake]

My 2 cents

Brymen BM235: Always in the car with me. It is small & cheap. If it gets broken or stolen I don't care about the cost. Incredible price/function ratio. check out the VFD function. I feel comfortable poking around in smaller 3x400V systems. Note that I have upgraded the test leads.

Brymen BM869s: My Fluke 289 is too expensive to be taken on the road all the time, so I wanted to try this Brymen. Have it only a couple of months and it just doesn't feel the same as a nice Fluke. I still grab the Fluke sometimes to cross check what the Brymen BM869s is telling me... It is relatively slow and has too many features to be handy actually. Hold function is a joke. The display is very bright, way better that any Fluke (shame on you Fluke). The beeper is too loud inside the house, it hurts my ears. I know this all is subjective and personal taste, but it is what it is. On a budget I take the Brymen.

Fluke 83: Its over 25 years old now. Never failed me except ones when I had to clean the zebra strips within the display. Still reads within spec as on the first day. Frequently spends cold and humid nights outside. Still my first set of leads and only the 5th battery or so! Merits retirement.... Should sell it for a newer one, it's not even an RMS meter... but I can't, it became a love affair, it trusts me as much as I trust it.

Fluke 289: Broken battery tab just after the warranty ran out. Come on.... Its sooo frequent that the Chinese make clones for those tabs... Devours batteries. 8 years in service and still spot on. I know that what is on the screen is the right thing. Slow start-up and worthless screen contrast and backlight. This is the meter I grab when the number 3 positions behind the comma is important. It is not fragile but certainly not rugged either.

Fluke T5-1000: My goto for quick electrics works. I didn't purchase it and would never have till a friend offered me one and I started using it. This thing is perfect if you only have 2 hands and no room to hang or lay down a classic meter. Pouch on the belt is handy too.

Every couple of years these meters are being checked to see if V/I/F is still within spec. Check is done against a standard in a lab but it is not a calibration (too expensive and not required in my case). Any meter that is out of spec is thrown out as I wouldn't trust it anymore in the field or for daily use.

Conclusion: If on a budget take the Brymen BM235; If you really need a double display go for the BM869s. If the brand, inherent trust and having a million features is important go for the Fluke 287/289.

[MerlijnD]

My 2 cents

Brymen BM235: Always in the car with me. It is small & cheap. If it gets broken or stolen I don't care about the cost. Incredible price/function ratio. check out the VFD function. I feel comfortable poking around in smaller 3x400V systems. Note that I have upgraded the test leads.

Brymen BM869s: My Fluke 289 is too expensive to be taken on the road all the time, so I wanted to try this Brymen. Have it only a couple of months and it just doesn't feel the same as a nice Fluke. I still grab the Fluke sometimes to cross check what the Brymen BM869s is telling me... It is relatively slow and has too many features to be handy actually. Hold function is a joke. The display is very bright, way better that any Fluke (shame on you Fluke). The beeper is too loud inside the house, it hurts my ears. I know this all is subjective and personal taste, but it is what it is. On a budget I take the Brymen.

Fluke 83: Its over 25 years old now. Never failed me except ones when I had to clean the zebra strips within the display. Still reads within spec as on the first day. Frequently spends cold and humid nights outside. Still my first set of leads and only the 5th battery or so! Merits retirement.... Should sell it for a newer one, it's not even an RMS meter... but I can't, it became a love affair, it trusts me as much as I trust it.

Fluke 289: Broken battery tab just after the warranty ran out. Come on.... Its sooo frequent that the Chinese make clones for those tabs... Devours batteries. 8 years in service and still spot on. I know that what is on the screen is the right thing. Slow start-up and worthless screen contrast and backlight. This is the meter I grab when the number 3 positions behind the comma is important. It is not fragile but certainly not rugged either.

Fluke T5-1000: My goto for quick electrics works. I didn't purchase it and would never have till a friend offered me one and I started using it. This thing is perfect if you only have 2 hands and no room to hang or lay down a classic meter. Pouch on the belt is handy too.

Every couple of years these meters are being checked to see if V/I/F is still within spec. Check is done against a standard in a lab but it is not a calibration (too expensive and not required in my case). Any meter that is out of spec is thrown out as I wouldn't trust it anymore in the field or for daily use.

Conclusion: If on a budget take the Brymen BM235; If you really need a double display go for the BM869s. If the brand, inherent trust and having a million features is important go for the Fluke 287/289.

Thanks for your insights!!

[HKJ]

My 2 cents

Interesting.
I love Fluke meters, there range switch is clearly marked and it is very obvious how to use the meter. No other brand are close to the simplicity and reliability of Fluke (289 not included). But you have to pay for it.
The Brymen meters looks much more complicated when looking on the range switch, but in practical usage they are just as good (or maybe better) than Fluke.

If you ask me for a simple but reliable meter I would recommend Fluke, but if you ask me for a good meter at a reasonable price I would say Brymen. There are many other brands that may get into the equation, but Fluke and Brymen are good examples of the corners:
Fluke: High price and very reliable.
Brymen. Fairly low price and reliable, but only a few years history (A few years is more than 5 years).
Both pass independent test, i.e. no inflated claims.

I am conservative enough to have a couple of Flukes and rate them as my most reliable meters, but I do use Brymen, probably more often than Fluke, except when I need a reliably measurement above all.
The takeaway: If you have enough money and want the most reliable meter, get a Fluke. In other cases Brymen is the best option (I got both and a couple more).

[Bud]

Where do you send your Brymen for repairs? Within 15 seconds I located a Fluke repair center in Canada. There is no "Brymen Canada" service  center per se.
Literally each and ever electrical supplier and even hobby shops here sell Fluke. To buy a Brymen I have to go sh!t knows where, Europe or may be US at best and the pray it does not break, since there is no place to send it to for repair or replacement.

[Monkeh]

Where do you send your Brymen for repairs? Within 15 seconds I located a Fluke repair center in Canada. There is no "Brymen Canada" service  center per se.
Literally each and ever electrical supplier and even hobby shops here sell Fluke. To buy a Brymen I have to go sh!t knows where, Europe or may be US at best and the pray it does not break, since there is no place to send it to for repair or replacement.

Third world troubles.

[HKJ]

Where do you send your Brymen for repairs? Within 15 seconds I located a Fluke repair center in Canada. There is no "Brymen Canada" service  center per se.
Literally each and ever electrical supplier and even hobby shops here sell Fluke. To buy a Brymen I have to go sh!t knows where, Europe or may be US at best and the pray it does not break, since there is no place to send it to for repair or replacement.

From my point of view you never send a meter for repair, you buy a new one. That may sound silly, but repair prices today is too high to repair a multimeter. With Fluke you pay for multiple meters when you buy it and they can simply send you a new meter.

The Brymen brand is not sold in US, because Greenlee has a agreement with them. I.e. look for Geenlee when you want a Brymen. The caveat is that Greenlee adds a healthy margin to the price. Also be aware that not all Greenlee meters are Brymen. I believe it is cheaper to buy a Brymen in Europe and pay shipping to US.

[BeBuLamar]

Where do you send your Brymen for repairs? Within 15 seconds I located a Fluke repair center in Canada. There is no "Brymen Canada" service  center per se.
Literally each and ever electrical supplier and even hobby shops here sell Fluke. To buy a Brymen I have to go sh!t knows where, Europe or may be US at best and the pray it does not break, since there is no place to send it to for repair or replacement.

From my point of view you never send a meter for repair, you buy a new one. That may sound silly, but repair prices today is too high to repair a multimeter. With Fluke you pay for multiple meters when you buy it and they can simply send you a new meter.

The Brymen brand is not sold in US, because Greenlee has a agreement with them. I.e. look for Geenlee when you want a Brymen. The caveat is that Greenlee adds a healthy margin to the price. Also be aware that not all Greenlee meters are Brymen. I believe it is cheaper to buy a Brymen in Europe and pay shipping to US.

I sent a 5 years old Fluke 287 that someone abused it and knocked the dial off the meter to Fluke for repair. They didn't repair it but gave me a brand new meter free.

[rsjsouza]

Just one aspect in favour of Brymens is that a very reputable tools supplier in the USA (Greenlee) has been using their rebranded meters in OEM and features lifetime warranty. This partnership comes from more than one generation of Brymen's product line and the first I saw was at least ten years ago. That debunks the myth that Brymens do not have a track record as well - a higher failure rate would probably not make Greenlee move to a second generation of products from the same OEM.

As for my own experience, I have a 2003-built Brymen BM857 that sees heavy use for ten years and is still accurate and solid as a rock. I recently got a smaller Greenlee DM-200A (Brymen BM251) that is extremely well built.

For the industrial segment, the only Uni-T that I would consider (with heaps of caution) is the UT195 family, with a small window for the UT139C. But track record of their models is quite poor.

Klein meters are rugged and survive quite the abuse - despite I have never used one, I have seen many in quite rough shape but still very accurate and still felt mechanically sound. They are also a reputable brand of tools in the US. They seem an original design and not an OEM.

Good luck with your procurement!

[Tomorokoshi]

In case you hadn't noticed it, there are two pinned threads specifically about multimeters:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

[james_s]

How much do the Fluke meters cost over there? How much is the salary of one of the people using the meters? There are other good meters out there besides Fluke, but none of the ones I'd trust to use on industrial equipment is cheap. How much is the life of one of your technicians or engineers worth?

[BillyO]

How much do the Fluke meters cost over there? How much is the salary of one of the people using the meters? There are other good meters out there besides Fluke, but none of the ones I'd trust to use on industrial equipment is cheap. How much is the life of one of your technicians or engineers worth?

Point taken.

But let me play devil's advocate.  Can you provide a link or a citation to any kind of a record or an article of or about someone being killed by their modern multimeter in the last decade?  I have done Google searches and can't come up with anything, but may not be all that good at it.  In fact I usually suck at it.  I'd be interested to understand the circumstances.

[bdunham7]

Can you provide a link or a citation to any kind of a record or an article of or about someone being killed by their modern multimeter in the last decade?

Links in this post.  Not quite killed (in this case) and not Brymen, but CEM rebadged as a USA brand.  This is what a long-time Fluke user that isn't a multimeter enthusiast is going to worry about.  THey aren't going to know the difference between CEM, UNI-T and Brymen.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg3714598/#msg3714598

[Tomorokoshi]

Can you provide a link or a citation to any kind of a record or an article of or about someone being killed by their modern multimeter in the last decade?

Links in this post.  Not quite killed (in this case) and not Brymen, but CEM rebadged as a USA brand.  This is what a long-time Fluke user that isn't a multimeter enthusiast is going to worry about.  THey aren't going to know the difference between CEM, UNI-T and Brymen.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg3714598/#msg3714598

Wow! That case is an overflowing helping of screw-up. Not even sure where to begin. Non-Ex equipment in a mine? Basically defining Southwire as a hardware store? Forget it, Jake, it's Kentucky.

Hence, from my original response:

4. Do you trust the certifications of the meters and any assorted test leads and accessories?

[mendip_discovery]

One of the things you might want to look at and add to your shopping list is your accuracy requirements. They measure stuff on the UPS and that has a specification, so you need a meter that meets/beats that spec. Use it to help remove meters that are cheap but no way would be suitable for the job.

Sadly I have found through the amount of meters I calibrate that the fluke meters just work. They tend to keep within spec year after year. Yes they do break but not at the rate the others do.

Though many of my customers have swapped over the years to cheaper brands as they just needed to save money and the ease of next day delivery of a RS Pro meter does make a difference. Plus many of then realised that the meters arent used for precision measurments or they spend most of thier time as a continuity tester.

[iet]

At work I use different FLUKE multimeters. And for my home lab I use the PC Work PCW02 multimeter I bought last week. It is not expensive and I am satisfied with all the functions.
https://pcworktools.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/pcw02a-user-manual-digital-multimeter-pcwork.pdf

[AVGresponding]

Just one aspect in favour of Brymens is that a very reputable tools supplier in the USA (Greenlee) has been using their rebranded meters in OEM and features lifetime warranty. This partnership comes from more than one generation of Brymen's product line and the first I saw was at least ten years ago. That debunks the myth that Brymens do not have a track record as well - a higher failure rate would probably not make Greenlee move to a second generation of products from the same OEM.

As for my own experience, I have a 2003-built Brymen BM857 that sees heavy use for ten years and is still accurate and solid as a rock. I recently got a smaller Greenlee DM-200A (Brymen BM251) that is extremely well built.

For the industrial segment, the only Uni-T that I would consider (with heaps of caution) is the UT195 family, with a small window for the UT139C. But track record of their models is quite poor.

Klein meters are rugged and survive quite the abuse - despite I have never used one, I have seen many in quite rough shape but still very accurate and still felt mechanically sound. They are also a reputable brand of tools in the US. They seem an original design and not an OEM.

Good luck with your procurement!

25 years of use in the hobbyist market isn't quite the same as 50+ years in the industrial sector. I don't know if Brymen have a contract with the Taiwanese military, but that would be an excellent way to establish a credible presence. It's arguably military contracts that have been one of the main pillars of Fluke's success, on the basis that if the knuckleheads in the armed forces can use them out in the field without destroying them or killing themselves, they are probably a decent bet for a factory floor.

I have a UT139C, and it's a nice little meter for hobby use, but I wouldn't let it anywhere near a serious energy source.

[tooki]

Alternatives to Fluke regarding safety and reliability? Aaaand a calibration structure behind them? Gossen Metrawatt comes to mind, but they are usually more expensive than Fluke- or maybe one of the newer models has some useful features to it than the existing Fluke meters. Also Hioki looks nice, but I have no first-hand experience with them.

Exactly.

There are other top-tier meter manufacturers, but they’re not really any cheaper than Fluke, and often more expensive.