Good multimeter for Industrial use at work (Fluke alternatives)

[BillyO]

I never like buying something from a company that doesn't make the products.

Fluke do not make all their meters.  Many of the more affordable models are made for Fluke in the far east.

[BeBuLamar]

and I don't buy those models.

[geggi1]

Try the Fluke 177
I have two for them and they have been working flawlessly for 15 years

[iet]

I was wondering if you people have any alternatives to Fluke for this type of work which are cheaper but offer the same features and are also durable/rugged?

https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00977/

[bdunham7]

I read the document you linked to in the other thread: "Case: 7:14-cv-00175-ART-EBA   Doc #: 41"  The defense moved for summary judgement based partly on Taylor's lack of proof.  What I wrote above is  a direct quote from the document.  They must have reason to claim lack of proof and to have the plaintiffs expert testimony excluded. 

I don't want to spend time parsing out the summary judgment motion, but defendants will always argue 1) the product wasn't defective 2) if it was defective, the defect didn't cause the damages 3) if the defect did cause the damages, the product was misused or mishandled.... and in this case 4) if the product was defective and the damages were a result of that defect, we still shouldn't pay because (fill in excuse here)....

I only included this in the original post to show that in the case of rebadged offshore products, you might have a difficult time holding anyone accountable if something bad happens.  Please take my word as an expert that there is nothing else stated in this document and any attempt to infer or read in other information is pointless.  All of the issues you raise were briefly mentioned only to be dismissed as MOOT because Southwire was immune from liability under Kentucky law.  The court only actually considered facts relevant to that issue.  They did not reach any decision as to whether the meter was proven defective or whether the plaintiff's expert was reliable or not.  Again, defendants counsel will almost always make those motions at this stage of litigation and those motions are almost always denied. 

Is there another document which I could read that provides more information?

The first document from the MSHA that I linked in the original post should tell you all you need to know.  You can also read this self-serving recall notice from Southwire's PR department.

https://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/07/prweb12012744.htm

The issue with CEMs IP67 meters not being so waterproof has also been discussed elsewhere. 

[Monkeh]

If that is true but it's not.

and I don't buy those models.

Which is it? They don't have meters made for them by other companies, or they do and you have a detailed list of Fluke products not to buy?

[bdunham7]

In the same document they pointed out several mistakes tech made. Also that meter was not made or claimed to be made for (Ex) environment, which a coal mine would be (both coal dust and methane risk). That is wrong example...
In that case not even Fluke would be a good brand, but only certified (Ex) models.

I don't see any mention of mistakes by the tech--what are you referring to?

I also don't know for sure what meter rating would be required in that particular place.  I don't know MSHA regulations and if they do require ATEX-type meters in that location, then apparently the 11060S model in question doesn't meet that rating.  However, this doesn't appear to be an explosive atmosphere accident, but rather a water intrusion problem in an IP67-rated meter.  So even if the meter was being used in an area that it should not have, the defect (water intrusion) would still be the root cause of the accident.  It would be a much messier legal case, though.

[Fungus]

Try the Fluke 177
I have two for them and they have been working flawlessly for 15 years

Only 15? I've got cheapo noname Chinese meters older than that. I've gpt a Radio Shack meter that I bought in the 1980s that still works perfectly.

[BillyO]

I've gpt a Radio Shack meter that I bought in the 1980s that still works perfectly.

Hey, me too.  Actually two of them an analog meter and a DMM.

[rsjsouza]

I guess I don't know Brymen because they are not sold in the US. I wouldn't buy the Greenlee though. I never like buying something from a company that doesn't make the products.

That is quite a stark stance. Fluke and Philips had quite the partnership for quite a long time. Perhaps you should start considering Zotek as well?

I guess I don't know Brymen because they are not sold in the US. I wouldn't buy the Greenlee though. I never like buying something from a company that doesn't make the products.

Well then you'll be shocked to learn Brymen is an OEM for Fluke.

If that is true but it's not.

Oh, it's not? Why, then, are they the biggest receiver of Brymen shipments in the US?

https://www.importgenius.com/suppliers/brymen-technology-corporation
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/dead-brymen-bm869s/msg3606703/#msg3606703

I'm sure they just import thousands of meters a month, including ones with their own model numbers on, for evaluation.

That can't be, right? Brymen has no track record in the professional segment - their only 20+ year track record is with hobbyists and curious people...

[BeBuLamar]

I think Brymen makes some of the Amprobe DMM and Amprobe is part of Fluke. I don't think Brymen makes any of the Fluke including those lousy Chinese made ones.

[J-R]

There is definitely a significant amount of "cross pollination" that has happened over the years, but I don't recall seeing any Fluke-branded handheld or clamp meters that looked like anything Brymen has ever made.

Wavetek-Meterman-Amprobe rebranded some Brymen meters for sure, however (I have a few), and of course Fortive owns both Fluke and Amprobe currently.  Some of Amprobe's current models are Chinese imports.

There is a good chance that parent company Fortive makes various deals with other manufacturers including Brymen, and obviously Brymen does the same, because Brymen doesn't make Alkaline batteries or cardboard boxes, for example!

So it's possible that when Fluke wants to build something they may consider obtaining some parts from Brymen.  I doubt it's the main PCB assembly, as that might help Brymen discover something Fluke doesn't want them to, who knows.  Some of the Fluke probes are made by Chinese manufacturers.  So Brymen might make something for Fluke somewhere in between those two extremes.


I purchased a Greenlee DM-210 (a rebranded Brymen BM202) over 20 years ago from a local electrical supply place.  I remember wanting it because it had a computer interface, which I used with my laptop and it was quite a bit cheaper than Fluke.  I think the only other DMM I had at the time was a Micronta 22-167 (all the others were analog).

While Greenlee pricing is slightly higher than direct from Brymen, it's not outrageous especially when you consider many Greenlee prices you see online are retail prices (and you do get the lifetime warranty).  If I go into my local store and ask for contractor pricing, it can be 10% or even 25% below retail in many cases.

So Brymen (via Greenlee) in the US has enjoyed quite a bit of exposure over the decades, but they really were never that popular IMHO.  I don't think Brymen (Greenlee) ever really was a direct competitor to Fluke, more like a budget brand back in the day.  But these days, "budget" typically means a low-cost Chinese DMM, which Greenlee does sell as well.  So this means even less of a chance for Brymen probably.

[tautech]

I think Brymen makes some of the Amprobe DMM and Amprobe is part of Fluke. I don't think Brymen makes any of the Fluke including those lousy Chinese made ones.

Yes the Chinese Flukes are just cheap rubbish, a fraction of the price of a Fluke in the west and with zero warranty outside China.
Last time I looked I could buy 3 of these cheap junk Flukes to one model 11*  Fluke yet Joe Smith ran a one of these POS Flukes, a 17B+ through his tests and it performed as well as the best of anything else.

So DON"T buy them or you'll push the price up !

[Monkeh]

I don't think Brymen makes any of the Fluke including those lousy Chinese made ones.

Then why does Brymen ship Fluke, not Amprobe, containers full of multimeters? And what makes their many products made outside the US 'lousy', other than xenophobia or racism?

E: Okay, it looks like the Amprobe name isn't used on the customs paperwork, fair enough. Still doesn't answer why we have evidence of complete, retail boxed Fluke brand meters being shipped from Brymen if they don't make them, now does it?

There is definitely a significant amount of "cross pollination" that has happened over the years, but I don't recall seeing any Fluke-branded handheld or clamp meters that looked like anything Brymen has ever made.

At a glance a Flir DM66 doesn't look much like a Brymen meter, but it's a BM235 in drag.

So Brymen might make something for Fluke somewhere in between those two extremes.

Or they might make the whole extreme, like shipping finished Fluke 373s by the container.

[J-R]

There is definitely a significant amount of "cross pollination" that has happened over the years, but I don't recall seeing any Fluke-branded handheld or clamp meters that looked like anything Brymen has ever made.

At a glance a Flir DM66 doesn't look much like a Brymen meter, but it's a BM235 in drag.

So Brymen might make something for Fluke somewhere in between those two extremes.

Or they might make the whole extreme, like shipping finished Fluke 373s by the container.

What are you going on about, Flir is not Fluke.

Do you have any photos showing a Brymen clamp meter that looks like the Fluke 373s?

[Monkeh]

There is definitely a significant amount of "cross pollination" that has happened over the years, but I don't recall seeing any Fluke-branded handheld or clamp meters that looked like anything Brymen has ever made.

At a glance a Flir DM66 doesn't look much like a Brymen meter, but it's a BM235 in drag.

So Brymen might make something for Fluke somewhere in between those two extremes.

Or they might make the whole extreme, like shipping finished Fluke 373s by the container.

What are you going on about, Flir is not Fluke.

Do you have any photos showing a Brymen clamp meter that looks like the Fluke 373s?

I'm saying it doesn't have to look like a Brymen product to be made by them, when it's a Fluke product. Why would Fluke have someone make a product which doesn't look like a Fluke?

[J-R]

It is within the realm of reason that once Fluke and Ambrobe became owned by the same parent company, that some of Fluke's manufacturing facilities now make Amprobe products as well, or at least do final assembly.  So your smoking gun of this product shipment to "Fluke" is very likely simply Brymen shipping the Amprobe models that are rebrands we already know about.  I have the Amprobe AMP-330, for example.

So yes, there is plenty of clear, solid evidence of Brymen making DMMs for other companies like Amprobe & Flir, such as identical LCDs, switch/button layouts, etc.  Without similar evidence showing Brymen making completed Fluke-branded products, it's just pure speculation.

Also, there is a big difference from sourcing certain parts from another supplier, VS. outright just rebranding the entire product.  So for sure let's keep the discussion on a technical level and stick with arguments that can be backed up.


The clamp assembly found on the Fluke 771 process meter and similar is one that I found interesting, as it's very good at low currents.  0.1mA accuracy is no problem for it.  I've not seen brands like Brymen make anything similar, although I'm open to suggestion if there is some evidence.

[Monkeh]

So your smoking gun of this product shipment to "Fluke" is very likely simply Brymen shipping the Amprobe models that are rebrands we already know about.

Feel free at any time to take a look at the second link I provided. Any time at all.

[J-R]

Slow down buddy, not sure why you are being so hostile, I looked at your links...

I did not see any direct evidence that Brymen is manufacturing the Fluke 373.  The link provided could literally mean that Fluke sent Brymen a bunch of 373 meters and Brymen shipped them back.  I'm not saying that, I'm just pointing out the vagueness of what is shown there.
All of the Fluke 373 units I see for sale currently on ebay either don't show a country of origin or clearly state Assembled in China, such as this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284887002598

None of Brymen's current or past clamp meters that I could find match the 373 (please correct me if I'm mistaken).  Every rebranded Brymen I have seen so far has been immediately recognizable.  And this is logical, as it doesn't make sense for Fluke to have Brymen make a completely different product, otherwise there would not be good cost savings.  You would have to reconfigure your factory to make just that one Fluke product, then back to Brymen products...  It makes more sense for Fluke to ask Brymen to make small tweaks to an existing product that they already manufacture, such as logos, buttons, etc.

So I would more likely suspect Brymen is handling the final packaging for the Fluke 373 since the manual states printed in Taiwan, but not the assembly of the 373 meter, as it states Assembled in China.  Just one theory that comes to mind.


And to be clear, I really don't care who makes the 373 or where, and am not a Fluke fanboy, so I'm really just digging into this because I'm curious.

[Fungus]

Do you have any photos showing a Brymen clamp meter that looks like the Fluke 373s?

I'm saying it doesn't have to look like a Brymen product to be made by them, when it's a Fluke product. Why would Fluke have someone make a product which doesn't look like a Fluke?

The Amprobe AM140 doesn't look much like a Brymen BM857 on the outside but if you open them up the PCB is identical.

https://www.amprobe.com/product/am-140-a/

https://brymen.eu/shop/bm857s/

[J-R]

The AM-140 has zero changes from Brymen BM857s other than the outer shell.  Every aspect is identical.  Similar to one of my favorites, the Amprobe AM-47/Meterman PM55/Brymen BM27s.

From a simple photo, these take little to no effort to determine they are the same product.

[MerlijnD]

Hello people,

Alot of responses. Im currently gone for christmas and the rest of the year. I will evaluate and try to respond indepth in the beginning of 2023.
Thank you very much!!!

[BillyO]

I don't see any mention of mistakes by the tech--what are you referring to?

The MSHA document you posted says he was making a phase to phase measurement and goes on to specifically stress best practices should be phase to ground.

In any case, your point is taken.  A DMM was involved in an injury.  The MSHA determined that the meter did not meet it's IP67 rating, but did not say that was the cause of the failure.  I wonder what the UL report found?

[BeBuLamar]

The case was dismissed because Southwire had the middle man status. So if the meter was a Fluke then Fluke woouldn't have such a status but if it's a Brymen made Greenlee then perhaps Greenlee can claim the middle man status just like Southwire.

[joeqsmith]

...
Last time I looked I could buy 3 of these cheap junk Flukes to one model 11*  Fluke yet Joe Smith ran a one of these POS Flukes, a 17B+ through his tests and it performed as well as the best of anything else.
...

The 17B+ wasn't the only low cost Fluke I looked at.  For those interested, I maintain a spreadsheet that contains which meters I have tested and what levels they were damaged at.  Looking the the current release, there are two Fluke products that are not included.  I ran a 189 but it was obviously old and in poor condition.  The other was a Fluke T6-600 non-contact voltage fork that several people requested I look at after a Canadian expert had posted a video on it.   This meter is very unique and really doesn't fit in with the products I normally look at. 

I am not sure where Fluke makes their products or what defines Country of Origin vs Assembled in USA.  We have discussed this before.   I did post some comments about the general quality of a brand new Fluke 87V manufactured in Dec 2017 compared with a much older one.   Interesting thing with that 87V is the switch contacts are a different design and cut into the PCB, similar to what I saw with that last Keysight meter I looked at.  While the Keysight meter bound up to the point where the knob's plastic shaft broke after a few cycles, the Fluke just made really bad chattering sounds.