Brand new analog scopes from Tektronix/Fluke/Agilent - are they still for sale?

[pascal_sweden]

Wouldn't you rather have MOST of those buttons in a menu?
And if the're all mechanical?   

You are aware that these scopes have full digital controls and on-screen menus, yes?

No I wasn't, but why so many buttons?

Dedicated button for every major channel specific function for each channel (the grouped buttons) plus dedicated buttons for major functions like trigger, time bases, operating mode, cursors.

Built by engineers, for engineers! Geprufte Sicherheit!

[HighVoltage]

No I wasn't, but why so many buttons?

This high end version of the series was something very special and still is today.
There is not one button too many.
And this makes this scope so easy to use.
The on screen real time math was unmatched at the time

I will take some detailed pictures, when I am back from my current trip.

[HighVoltage]

Could you provide the link to these pictures? When you build these test stands, you source new PM3394B and PM3380B scopes? Or second hand? Where is your NOS supplier for this candy?

I am traveling and do not have my normal laptop with me. When I am back in the lab, I will make some pictures.

There was a time when I bought every single one that became available.
But one time I got really lucky and bought 10 of the PM3394B brand new out of a US government surplus. The shipping to Germany was more expensive than the scopes.
Not only that, these 10 scopes had all hardware and software options, something I had never seen before.
Keep in mind, that these scopes cost as much as a car, when they came out.

Pictures coming soon.
I probably still have 15 of them in my storage room for implementation for future test stands.
For certain applications, I would not even know, of what to use today.
And I really do love my Agilent/Keysight scopes.
I have one application that I would not be able to use any modern scope for and the PM3394B works perfectly.
 

[pascal_sweden]

Please reserve a brand new Philips PM3340 for me!

I even consider to take two of them if they are New Old Stock

http://www.amplifier.cd/Test_Equipment/other/PM3320A.html

[HighVoltage]

Please reserve a brand new Philips PM3340 for me!

It is the PM3394B that you want to look for.
And then make sure you have at least the additional Memory and the MATH options installed and the latest firmware. Only on the klatest firmware did they fix many software issues for the RS232 and the GPIB communication.

[SaabFAN]

I have tried to get my hands on the PM3394-Scopes several times now, but they almost always go slightly beyond my budget^^
What is it that makes them so special, btw. that there are certain applications where only these scopes can be used effectively? And what are these applications?

Is there a possibility to upgrade the Firmware and retrofit the Memory-Option? Perhaps even build an aftermarket-solution to add the memory? I suspect it is a PCB that is put into the scope with some 7400-Logic and SRAM-Chips on it. If these Boards are nowhere to be found, it should be possible to build them based on the schematics in the service-manual, correct (assuming the Service-Manuals for the PM3394 contain the same level of detail the SM for the PM3320A does)?

[oldway]

Please reserve a brand new Philips PM3340 for me!

I even consider to take two of them if they are New Old Stock

http://www.amplifier.cd/Test_Equipment/other/PM3320A.html

PM3340 belongs to the same family as the PM3320, PM3323 and PM3310.
They are 100% digital oscilloscopes without analog option and it was the start of Philips in the field of digital oscilloscopes. (the first model was the PM3310 which I have the prototype of the plant that was used in product development)
A truck of components, 16kgs   ... For me, that's a white elephant for just 500 MS / Sec ... These were the beginnings of the DSO technique, nothing to do with current technology.

Regarding the PM3394, it is a good oscilloscope but DSO option is completely overwhelmed by what is currently available on the market.
That's why I preferred a PM3094 which is only analog. (4 channels, 200Mhz)

[SaabFAN]

I rather like my PM3320A, Its a really nice scope I often use when I'm dealing with analog stuff or something that requires termination (don't have a 50ohm BNC-Terminator, but the PM3320A has built in terminators that can be switched on), and the Random Sampling Method allows a much more detailed view on some repetitive signals than my DS1054Z does. In fact, the "Truck of component" is what makes the scope so interesting to me: Putting a really fast ADC behind a fast amplifier is not difficult (students do it and sell the results on Ebay^^), designing an aquisition-system that spans 3 large PCBs, uses P2CCDs to allow the use of a rather slow ADC and a DSP made out of 7400 logic + 1 very early FPGA, also requiring 2 Boards, and still deliver accurate results is a much more impressive feat. Also makes for a great learning experience when checking/repairing/calibrating. I think, I learned more about electronics trying to fix a broken PM3320A than with all the Arduino-Experiments I did combined.

Btw. How does the Tek 24XX-Series compare to the analog PM308X/9X Series?

[dom0]

You have both low-cost and high-end non-modular scopes in the 2000 series. For example, the 2225 is a typical low-cost scope: A couple dozen MHz bandwidth, two channels, one time base, mechanical switches. OTOH there are high-end (80s high-end) DSOs and CROs in there, too. 2467, 2440. I think there was also a mixed-domain scope (combiscope).

[oldway]

How does the Tek 24XX-Series compare to the analog PM308X/9X Series?

In the latest development of analog oscilloscopes, measurement functions were added and others functions as calibration, settings memory and autoset.

This has cost analog oscilloscope one greatest advantage he still has today: simplicity of use.

This is in my opinion the weak point of Tek 24xx and even more of PM308x / 9x.

At the time they were designed, the benefits were worth it, but now, not anymore.

These benefits are now available on all DSO, even low end, with a lot more performance.

If you need these functions, use a DSO, not a CRO !

Therefore, I would like to correct what Dave said : 24xx Tektronix were the best portable analog oscilloscopes, but currently they are no longer because what we can now expect from a CRO has changed.

The Tek 24xx and PM308x/9x have lost the simplicity, both in use and at the level of circuit design and repair.

For this reason, it would not be my choise if I had to buy an analog scope now.

I would prefer:
Tektronix 465B or 2235(A)
HP1740A
Hameg HM605

Tek24xx are 2+2 channels and PM3094 is (true) 4 channels.

[Wuerstchenhund]

PM3340 belongs to the same family as the PM3320, PM3323 and PM3310.
They are 100% digital oscilloscopes without analog option and it was the start of Philips in the field of digital oscilloscopes. (the first model was the PM3310 which I have the prototype of the plant that was used in product development)

PM3320A, PM3323A and PM3340A (the 2GHz variant) were the first DSO I've ever used (in the days these models were current), and actually were the reason I mostly abandoned analog scopes for good for my work. 250MSa/s (PM3320) and 500MSa/s (PM3323, can't remember what the sample rate was for the PM3340) real-time sampling rate was pretty good back in 1988, plus they offered 10bit vertical resolution, four separate sample memories with 4kpts each, plus optional FFT and digital filter. The PM3340A also had a nifty eye diagram mode.

And all of them had a numerical keyboard, something I miss on DSOs to this day (yes, I know some Teks have them, but I don't want a Tek).

A truck of components, 16kgs   ... For me, that's a white elephant for just 500 MS / Sec ... These were the beginnings of the DSO technique, nothing to do with current technology.

That's not really true, as these scopes work exactly as any modern DSO does. And speaking about specs, even a modern-day Rigol DG1054z does only 250MSa/s in 4Ch mode and 500MSa/s in 2Ch mode, plus it's only an 8bit scope. Even maths capabilities are comparable. Of course the Rigol is smaller, has more memory, higher waveform rates and warranty, but I'd say if its in good condition and not too expensive then a PM3320/PM3323 could still make a great beginner's scope.

[dom0]

I think he's referring to implementation rather than principle. Of course the principle of real-time DSOs didn't really change (neglecting analog CCD storage for the moment) since their inception, but the implementation techniques changed, drastically. In the 80s they used discrete logic and rudimentary programmable logic devices like GALs or PALs. Today all logic is concentrated in one or more FPGAs or ASICs. Expensive RAM isn't spread out across boards with discrete decoders, but is one of the cheapest items on the BOM and readily available.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I think he's referring to implementation rather than principle.

You're probably right.

[Bill158]

 :-+I just picked up a Tektronix 7934 500MHz storage scope on ebay for US$181.  Looks brand new in every respect.  It had been packed in a silver vapor/mylar "Marvelseal360" around the Tek box with another box around the Tek box and the outside box was exactly right for fit around the Tek box.  On the inside seal was a Raytheon label and on the outside box was another Raytheon label that matched the inside one, even Serial Number.  Inside was the original packing material/foam inserts was all original like Tek would have shipped it when the scope was made.  There was a Calibration sticker on it indicating a Cal in 1993 from Raytheon Quality Control.  The operating manual, green CRT filter (grey already installed), power cord and a return post card to send to Tektronix for the complete Service Manual.  Not even going to try to send that  postcard in.  No plugins however as expected.  Another label on the scope was "Contract Material / contract #xxxx".  So my guess right now is that this was bought with money to Raytheon from the US Government for some project but was never issued for use.  I was a little afraid that the caps/some compenents would be bad, but when I turn it on it worked perfectly.  This little jewel cost US$16k in the Tek 1991 catalog.  Another example of my government building a $600 toilet seat or a buying a $400 hammer.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/icon_smile_thumbsup.gif
Bill

[dom0]

The 7934 is kinda historic landmark for being the fastest analog storage scope ever made.

[commie]

:-+I just picked up a Tektronix 7934 500MHz storage scope on ebay for US$181.  Looks brand new

I think we need get out of the scope business all together

[dom0]

And I consider moving to the US
Yesterday a color LeCroy 4 ch / 500 MHz / 500 kpts (LC-something-something) sold for a mere 180 €. (Shipping to, well, here would have cost a similar three-figure number)

[HighVoltage]

And I consider moving to the US

Been there, done that for many year in California and other states!
And I do miss it !

It was paradise, if it comes to buying used equipment, like no comparison.
I had a business liquidator about 1 mile away and he had a warehouse full of stuff that he had no idea of what it was. Complete laboratory equipment of all kinds. Everything from very small solder irons to huge wave soldering machines. Well, with the advents of the financial crisis on 2008, even this company folded. Must have been the best day ever for those who bought stuff from him at that time.

Importing stuff these days to Germany only makes sense for very special equipment, because of the hassle, fees and shipping cost. But still, from time to time I do it.

[pascal_sweden]

When are the Germans at Philips back from holidays?

[SaabFAN]

I would think in about a week or so. Then summer-break in schools is over.

[Capt. Apparatus]

For switches and contacts, they are more subject to oxidation if they are not used.

Interesting anecdote for everyone, about a year ago I scored a nice used little Tektronix 2212 60 mhz digital analog scope with both the gpib and rs232 options on ebay for I think it was 80$ shipped, came from a college lab up in New Hapmshire or something. Anyhow it arrives I power it up and much to my dismay I find that most if not all the buttons were unresponsive to fiddly at best. At first I had thought maybe something had shorted out or blown on the board but nope, it turns out and I don't have the slightest idea how, but the contacts inside the little supposedly sealed switches had been oxidized/gunked up I almost want to say it was smokers residue or something equally grotty along those lines. 

Trying to source a spare board or replacement switches that would match the physical specifications was proving difficult (or expensive) so I decide to spend a couple of evenings over the weekend disassembling each, and every little switch and cleaning the tiny little dome contacts. Scope works like a dream now though so I'm satisfied.

But, to make a long story short, yes dickey switches are a real drag. 

[rvalente]

I am not a dealer, but I still have a brand new LEADER LBO-315 Oscilloscope new in a box and never opened.
This is the real small scope with real high quality knobs and controls and ultra sharp screen.
I have two of these scopes in use all the time but this one jewel stayed all these years in its original box.

Not an analog scope, But I also have one Tektronix THS720P brand new in box, just took the battery out a few years ago.

And a third one is a Fluke PM3394B, still sitting in its original holster.

I just heard from my calibration lab, that Philips in my town found 100 pieces of the PM3365 scopes in their storage, all brand new and never used.

May I ask if in your unit, does the LCD went real bad? Mine is almost unreadable, the SHARP replacement is almost the price of the scope nowadays...

[pascal_sweden]

And a third one is a Fluke PM3394B, still sitting in its original holster.

Still in its original holster, and vacuum sealed bag, plus the original carton box?

What is the origin of this scope? Has it been stored in a warehouse?

How much is your asking price?

Do you have more of these in NOS condition?

[HighVoltage]

How much is your asking price?
Do you have more of these in NOS condition?

Sorry to say, but this one is not for sale.

But you can find them from time to time on ebay for a reasonable price in good condition
This one here in Singapore needs a little work but looks ok
The price seems a little high
But lately the prices have increased for these scopes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-PM3394B-AUTORANGING-COMBISCOPE-OSCILLOSCOPE-/361361912321?hash=item5422d93201

[SaabFAN]

@HighVoltage, up to now I just assumed you were talking about Hamburg when you said that Philips found the PM3365 Scopes. Why I did that, I don't know, but just to be clear: Are we talking about Hamburg here?