Brymen BM867s ???

[nubinstanley]

Hi All

Wanted to make a one time investment on a decent DMM and after a bit of research, I kinda locked on to the BM869s. Wanting to keep the budget a bit lower, started considering the BM867s.

My major use for the DMM would be for electronics projects. I would also be using it to repair consumer electronics devices occasionally (and other occasional mains use). Does a BM867s fit the bill ?

I am hoping to add one of those budget DSOs sometime in the near future as well...

[Fungus]

My major use for the DMM would be for electronics projects. I would also be using it to repair consumer electronics devices occasionally (and other occasional mains use). Does a BM867s fit the bill ?

Yes it does.

But ... personally I'd go for the BM857 because it's a much simpler user interface - less feature overload.

eg. The selector position for Ohms/continuity on the BM857s doesn't have nS on it (which you'll probably never use). This means you won't have to cycle through nS every time you want to go back to Ohms when you've been using continuity.

Brymens have a feature that they remember their last setting even when you turn them off. There's no escape from going through nS every time you use continuity then want to go back to Ohms. This is something you'll do a lot.



IMHO the BM857s is the "perfect storm" of the Brymen range. It's got all the features you really need in the simplest possible package. It's also a lot smaller than the big curvy dual-display Brymens and the "industrial" design means the screen is more recessed and protected against accidents.

The looks? That's obviously a question of taste. I quite like it. 

[nubinstanley]

My major use for the DMM would be for electronics projects. I would also be using it to repair consumer electronics devices occasionally (and other occasional mains use). Does a BM867s fit the bill ?

Yes it does.

But ... personally I'd go for the BM857 because it's a much simpler user interface - less feature overload.

eg. The selector position for Ohms/continuity on the BM857s doesn't have nS on it (which you'll probably never use). This means you won't have to cycle through nS every time you want to go back to Ohms when you've been using continuity.

Brymens have a feature that they remember their last setting even when you turn them off. There's no escape from going through nS every time you use continuity then want to go back to Ohms. This is something you'll do a lot.



IMHO the BM857s is the "perfect storm" of the Brymen range. It's got all the features you really need in the simplest possible package. It's also a lot smaller than the big curvy dual-display Brymens and the "industrial" design means the screen is more recessed and protected against accidents.

The looks? That's obviously a question of taste. I quite like it. 

Thanks for the input.

Anyhow, I actually do not mind the size (It will most likely be always on my bench). My only doubt was if the 867/869 itself is well suited for the kind of work I usually do. Also, this would most likely be a one time investment (at least I want it to be! Hopefully, it would last a lifetime!) for me, and so wanted it to be "right".

[Fungus]

Thanks for the input.

 

My only doubt was if the 867/869 itself is well suited for the kind of work I usually do. Also, this would most likely be a one time investment (at least I want it to be! Hopefully, it would last a lifetime!) for me, and so wanted it to be "right".

It's probably overkill.

PS: You need more than one meter. I'd get an AliExpress special as well as a Brymen. It's educational, good for reference, and you need it. :-)

eg. This one (Get the base one, the accessory kit is rubbish. Get some gold probes instead)

Edit: Get gold probes for your Brymen, too. They're only 10 Euros and well worth it.

[EEVblog]

Hi All
Wanted to make a one time investment on a decent DMM and after a bit of research, I kinda locked on to the BM869s. Wanting to keep the budget a bit lower, started considering the BM867s.
My major use for the DMM would be for electronics projects. I would also be using it to repair consumer electronics devices occasionally (and other occasional mains use). Does a BM867s fit the bill ?

Yes, great meter. Only major downsideis that it's physically very large. Not the best for small work spaces.

[EEVblog]

Thanks for the input.

 

My only doubt was if the 867/869 itself is well suited for the kind of work I usually do. Also, this would most likely be a one time investment (at least I want it to be! Hopefully, it would last a lifetime!) for me, and so wanted it to be "right".

It's probably overkill.

PS: You need more than one meter. I'd get an AliExpress special as well as a Brymen. It's educational, good for reference, and you need it. :-)

eg. This one (Get the base one, the accessory kit is rubbish. Get some gold probes instead)

Edit: Get gold probes for your Brymen, too. They're only 10 Euros and well worth it.

I'd second that. Two cheaper meters is likely to will be more useful than one expensive one. And the left over money can buy other stuff.

[nubinstanley]

It's probably overkill.

PS: You need more than one meter. I'd get an AliExpress special as well as a Brymen. It's educational, good for reference, and you need it. :-)

eg. This one (Get the base one, the accessory kit is rubbish. Get some gold probes instead)

Edit: Get gold probes for your Brymen, too. They're only 10 Euros and well worth it.

Overkill is OK.

I already have a cheapo UNI-T with me. Hopefully that can serve as the second meter for the time being. Will look into the probes. 

[nubinstanley]

Yes, great meter. Only major downsideis that it's physically very large. Not the best for small work spaces.

I'd second that. Two cheaper meters is likely to will be more useful than one expensive one. And the left over money can buy other stuff.

 

[Specmaster]

Yeah, get the 867s, you will not be disappointed if you do, the switching between continuity and resistance is not that much of an issue, and in any case you could always use the UNI-T for the continuity to avoid that small issue of the n$ range.

[Fungus]

Yeah, get the 867s, you will not be disappointed if you do, the switching between continuity and resistance is not that much of an issue, and in any case you could always use the UNI-T for the continuity to avoid that small issue of the n$ range.

That particular Brymen isn't too bad with the function overloading.

eg. The meters with temperature will usually combine capacitance/diode together so that's another small annoyance. More features = more overloading, so it goes...

[radiolistener]

Edit: Get gold probes for your Brymen, too. They're only 10 Euros and well worth it.

In my experience, Brymen probes are crap. My Brymen probes has 0.08-0.16 Ω when I bought it with my BM867S and now, after 2-3 years of rare usage at home conditions it has floating 0.2-0.4 Ω. I tried to clean its banana plugs with rubber and ethanol, but it doesn't help. The only way to restore 0.08 Ω is to move and pull the wire near banana plugs, at some position it returns to 0.08 Ω, but if I leave it for some time, it returns back to floating state with 0.2-0.4 Ω. It looks that there is a bad contact between wire and banana plug inside plastic.

For example, just tested them - 0.51 Ω.   

I asked Brymen why it happens and they said the following:

For reliability, our test lead design uses mechanical grab to harness wire for connection. Its design does not use soldering. Thus its loop resistance is slightly higher naturally. You may use Relative feature to offset it. 

But relative offset button doesn't helps. because probe resistance is randomly floating when you use it. If you set zero on DMM, it will show some offset when you move probes, because their resistance is changed. When it was new, the floating resistance was not a huge, it has floating from about 0.08 to 0.16 Ω and you can close eyes on that. I thought that this is related with temperature dependency. But after 1-2 years it drops to 0.2-0.4 Ω and this is not acceptable.

I tested my DMM with Chinese silicone wires 1 meter each with banana plugs to make sure that this issue is related to the probes and not to DMM. I bought these wires on aliexpress for 8 USD for 5 pieces and they show 0.01-0.02 Ω despite the fact that I bought them about 1 year ago. And there is no floating resistance with Chinese wires, like it happens with Brymen probes.

So I don't recommend these probes, they are not reliable, they have floating resistance issue just out of the box. And this floating resistance will be much worse after 1-2 years, because something is oxidized inside. I'm not sure if this is common issue for Brymen probes or I got just a defective probes, but as Brymen said - they don't use soldering, so at a glance it looks like the reason why they are oxidized.

They are gold plated and it really helps to get contact without pressure on probes, but their internal resistance which is floating when you use probes just make them useless for resistance measurements. You will need to use another probes or wires when you needs to measure low resistnace.


Regarding to the Brymen BM867S, that's my model and this is really good DMM. I can recommend it. But note that there is needs to buy a replacement probes, because branded one which comes with Brymen DMM has a bad quality.

The main difference between BM867 and BM869 is that BM869 has better precision for RMS voltage measurement and works up to 100 kHz. Also BM869 has temperature probes and a little better precision for voltage measurement. Nothig else.

[nez]

... My Brymen probes has 0.08-0.16 Ω when I bought it with my BM867S and now, after 2-3 years of rare usage at home conditions it has floating 0.2-0.4 Ω. I tried to clean its banana plugs with rubber and ethanol, but it doesn't help. The only way to restore 0.08 Ω is to move and pull the wire near banana plugs, at some position it returns to 0.08 Ω, but if I leave it for some time, it returns back to floating state with 0.2-0.4 Ω. It looks that there is a bad contact between wire and banana plug inside plastic.

Yeah I have the exact same problem, and it's annoying.  I likewise can mess around with the wires next to the connectors to get them back to 0.08 ohms, but the hidden contacts' resistances drift back up after a while.

I'm probably going to order some leads from Probe Master since I've seen a variety of people recommending them.

[Edit] The small downside is I lose the form factor of the leads that fit into the holders on the DMM rubber case..

Aside from the Brymen test leads, I do love the DMM itself (BM869s).

[radiolistener]

I'm probably going to order some leads from Probe Master since I've seen a variety of people recommending them.

I also read good feedback about Probe Master golden plated leads.

Does somebody have it? What about their resistance?

[Fungus]

They are gold plated and it really helps to get contact without pressure on probes, but their internal resistance which is floating when you use probes just make them useless for resistance measurements. You will need to use another probes or wires when you needs to measure low resistnace.

FWIW I just checked mine and it said 0.06 Ohms.

I've never noticed a problem but I hardly ever measure very low resistances so that's not surprising. If I did then I'd either look into other leads or techniques. I'd probably want something much sharper/needle-like anyway (eg. those $3 cheapies).

[rsjsouza]

@nubinstanley, as others have confirmed, your choice for the BM867S  is good and its other limitations w.r.t. to your original BM869S choice are the temperature and the lower bandwidth (20kHz instead of 100kHz for the 869). Unless you are working with audio and is interested in measuring the upper echelons of the frequency band, it should be alright.

Regarding probes, many threads in this forum praise Probe Master for its quality and features - even Dave made a video about it a long time ago. Just one aspect if you care for aesthetics: check the thread below for information about the banana jacks that may not be fully inserted depending on the model purchased.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/probe-master-test-leads/

Good luck in your purchase!

[Fungus]

Unless you are working with audio and is interested in measuring the upper echelons of the frequency band, it should be alright.

That's what oscilloscopes are for. 

[rsjsouza]

Unless you are working with audio and is interested in measuring the upper echelons of the frequency band, it should be alright.

That's what oscilloscopes are for. 

But not as accurate.

[nubinstanley]

Yeah, get the 867s, you will not be disappointed if you do, the switching between continuity and resistance is not that much of an issue, and in any case you could always use the UNI-T for the continuity to avoid that small issue of the n$ range.

 

[nubinstanley]

Yeah, get the 867s, you will not be disappointed if you do, the switching between continuity and resistance is not that much of an issue, and in any case you could always use the UNI-T for the continuity to avoid that small issue of the n$ range.

That particular Brymen isn't too bad with the function overloading.

eg. The meters with temperature will usually combine capacitance/diode together so that's another small annoyance. More features = more overloading, so it goes...

The BM867s has single channel temp measurement right ? Hopefully, it comes with one temp probe ?

[nubinstanley]

@nubinstanley, as others have confirmed, your choice for the BM867S  is good and its other limitations w.r.t. to your original BM869S choice are the temperature and the lower bandwidth (20kHz instead of 100kHz for the 869). Unless you are working with audio and is interested in measuring the upper echelons of the frequency band, it should be alright.

Regarding probes, many threads in this forum praise Probe Master for its quality and features - even Dave made a video about it a long time ago. Just one aspect if you care for aesthetics: check the thread below for information about the banana jacks that may not be fully inserted depending on the model purchased.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/probe-master-test-leads/

Good luck in your purchase!

Thank you for the input 

ANd, I have already asked this question, but lemme repeat. The 867s supports single channel temp measurement ? So, it should come with one temp probe ?

[Fungus]

The BM867s has single channel temp measurement right ? Hopefully, it comes with one temp probe ?

Nope.

Edit: But the cheapo Alixpress AN870 does - which is another reason you need more then one meter (did I say that already?)

[SMB784]

@nubinstanley, as others have confirmed, your choice for the BM867S  is good and its other limitations w.r.t. to your original BM869S choice are the temperature and the lower bandwidth (20kHz instead of 100kHz for the 869). Unless you are working with audio and is interested in measuring the upper echelons of the frequency band, it should be alright.

Regarding probes, many threads in this forum praise Probe Master for its quality and features - even Dave made a video about it a long time ago. Just one aspect if you care for aesthetics: check the thread below for information about the banana jacks that may not be fully inserted depending on the model purchased.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/probe-master-test-leads/

Good luck in your purchase!

Thank you for the input 

ANd, I have already asked this question, but lemme repeat. The 867s supports single channel temp measurement ? So, it should come with one temp probe ?

I have a BM867s, and I have found it to be an excellent, reliable meter.  It does not support temperature measurements as a setting on the meter.  That is reserved specifically for the 869s.  By the way, when purchasing a new 867s or 869s, make sure you ask the vendor to give you the one with the latest firmware on it.  The most recent firmware has the longer duration backlight (256 seconds rather than 16 seconds).  I have found the 16 second backlight to be basically useless, and you definitely want to get the version with the longer backlight.

[joeqsmith]

Hi All

Wanted to make a one time investment on a decent DMM and after a bit of research, I kinda locked on to the BM869s. Wanting to keep the budget a bit lower, started considering the BM867s.

My major use for the DMM would be for electronics projects. I would also be using it to repair consumer electronics devices occasionally (and other occasional mains use). Does a BM867s fit the bill ?

I am hoping to add one of those budget DSOs sometime in the near future as well...

So it's a one time buy suggesting that's the last DMM you will ever purchase.   Let's assume you're 40 years old and will die at the age of 60.   I suspect the meter if not abused will out live you.  Say the meter you want costs $400 but you plan to settle for one that costs $100 to save that upfront cost.  The $400 meter was $20/yearish  assuming you don't make any investments.  Or $1.70 / month. 

I would have no idea what meter would fit your needs but I recommend that is what you buy.  I often receive comments from people wanting to modify their meters because they bought something that didn't meet their needs. 

Personally, I still use the bench meters a fair amount but use both the BM869s and the Fluke 189.  I like meters that can display more than one parameter.  I use the two K-type inputs on the 869s.  The UNI-T UT181A and Brymen BM789 also have this feature.   I would like to combine some of the features from about five of them that I have looked at.       Enjoy your new meter.

[Fungus]

So it's a one time buy suggesting that's the last DMM you will ever purchase.   Let's assume you're 40 years old and will die at the age of 60.   I suspect the meter if not abused will out live you.  Say the meter you want costs $400 but you plan to settle for one that costs $100 to save that upfront cost.  The $400 meter was $20/yearish  assuming you don't make any investments.  Or $1.70 / month. 

a) Some of us have spouses ("SWMBO")

b) I don't know of any $400 meter that's significantly better than a $200 Brymen. Many famous $400 meters are worse.

c) A $200 meter is already in the "luxury item" area. It may be better to go the opposite way and use a $25 meter for a while until you have everything else sorted out. Multimeters are about the only item where the cheapo $25 option actually works. You can't say that about cheapo oscilloscopes, etc.

[pjwum]

My major use for the DMM would be for electronics projects. I would also be using it to repair consumer electronics devices occasionally (and other occasional mains use). Does a BM867s fit the bill ?

Yes it does.

But ... personally I'd go for the BM857 because it's a much simpler user interface - less feature overload.

What Fungus tries to tell you is that too much of anything can be a burden. The 869s/867s for a hobbyist is like an SUV in a small garage. It will make you happy when you buy it. Dreaming about camping in the woods. But in reality you struggle to find a parking place at your local grocery market (ok, here in Europe parking a car can be a real challenge).

I know, you want to be prepared to master all those measurement tasks to come. But believe me, a Fluke 115 will be a superb overall answer. The more you use it the more you love it. Or a nice EEVBlog BM235. Together with your cheap DSO and a 1k resistor (for measuring uAmps once a year) you are ready for your electronics adventures.