Author Topic: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)  (Read 118297 times)

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Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« on: January 09, 2013, 07:31:04 am »
I don't need to do a full review on this Brymen BM869. There are three other references to this multimeter series, BM86X, from other sources. The following are detailed examples.

On MJ Lorton's youtube videos, very detailed, but of the BM867.




By iloveelectronics on this forum, a teardown of the BM867.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/brymen-bm-867-teardown-pictures/

A rather lengthy review by a former member here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/brymen-bm869-review-by-the-eye-of-the-industrial-electrician/

Instead I will give my personal points that stand out for me.

For me this meter was a no brainer after watching/reading the above reviews. The price was much better than anything else with this build quality and specification. I purchased mine from a company in Poland mainly because I could not find it available to be shipped to me anywhere else. You can read about my experience with this company in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/bad-service-endemic-in-the-whole-world-now-anyone-deal-with-tme-eu/

This is definitely a good buy in high accuracy and safe multimeters. My cost for the BM869 was $241 USD, plus $52 USD for the USB data interface, and another $50 USD for delivery to Chile for a total of $343 USD.

It is built very well with thick and tough feeling materials. The Rubber holster is nice and "rubbery" unlike many of the cheap feeling PVC plastic holsters. Everything on the outside of the meter is easy to read and understand. The selector dial is a bit small, but feels pretty good and you can't easily get it stuck between selections. Actually I was not able to get it in between settings. Yes this meter is big and heavy.

On the inside, it matches the quality of the feel on the outside. The layout of the input protection is a little messy, but nothing that makes me uncomfortable. The fuses are both rated for 1000V, so based on everything I can see it matches its CAT ratings. The only thing that might be a shortcoming is that the battery wires run through a hole near the input jack for the high amp range. Is this a problem? I don't think so in this case as this meter comes with a UL rating pass label. I am confident that it actually has been tested and passed its ratings. The Uni-T UT71E has this same battery wire arrangement and maybe it isn't a problem for it neither, but the rest of the meter does not meet its CAT ratings in many obvious ways. If I want to feel safe when using a meter, this BM869 is definitely the one I will reach for.

All of the case seems to be sealed with rubber seals and o-rings. If not water tight, it is definitely very dust proof.

With any test I could throw at the BM869, it appears to be well within specification. It has almost any function I could think an electrician and/or electronics hobbyist could want, and a few more. Dual temperature, dBm with adjustable impedance, conductance, and filtered AC measurement for motor drives are the main outstanding additions to the usual functions. The meter will read its internal temperature if you short out the inputs instead of plugging in a thermocouple. The backlight is OK, not the best but pretty good.

What don't I like? Well, the leads I got are rated CATIV 1000V 10A and have nice soft insulation that is maybe silicone. They have very thin shrouded tips that are nice and sharp. However, they seem to have a high relative internal impedance of 0.12 ohms compared to some Uni-T probes I have that have an internal resistance of less than 0.07 ohms. The cover window for the display is made of really nice thick plastic, but the plastic seems a little soft and scratches easily. The holster has those built in probe holders but I find them next to useless in any work I have done and they add quite a bit of unwanted bulk to the meter.

So my dislikes are niggly little complaints and for the price of this meter they are really insignificant. If you want a truly well built meter that is going to take a bit of abuse, will be safe to use for high energy circuits, and doesn't cost far too much, then get this meter. I will be working regularly on 600VDC plus equipment in a solar installation and I will feel quite confident using it on this and on my electronics projects too.

If you can't find this meter then look for the Amprobe AM-160 as a close relative, or the AM-270 which is less than $90 and appears to built to the same level of quality. These are apparently made by Brymen as their OEM.

Additional Information:

I realized that I had not mentioned a couple of features that are important points.

The first one is that the optional settings for each selector position are remembered after power down. This is very handy for those who prefer to have their own default settings instead of what the manufacturer decides you should have. This is one of the pet peeves of Dave about the Fluke 87V in that it defaults to AC when he would prefer DC.

Second: The amp and milliamp range share the same dial position and the meter auto selects which is active based on what input the probe is connected to.

Third: The auto power off can be disabled by holding "SELECT" while powering on, or the beep can be disabled by holding "RANGE", but you cannot have no beep and no power off at the same time.

I cleaned the tips and the lead resistance dropped from 0.12 ohms to 0.07 ohms. Even though they have a lower resistance than I originally reported, these are not the leads that Brymen supplied in the official review sample to Kiriakos
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 08:57:54 am by Lightages »
 
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Offline ttp

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 11:33:07 am »
Thanks for sharing your opinion

What don't I like? Well, the leads I got are rated CATIV 1000V 10A and have nice soft insulation that is maybe silicone. They have very thin shrouded tips that are nice and sharp. However, they seem to have a high relative internal impedance of 0.12 ohms compared to some Uni-T probes I have that have an internal resistance of less than 0.07 ohms.

I think I got the same leads, BTC branded, isn't it? I didn't like them at first and don't like them too much now. I happen to have a 20+ years old thing with oxidised solder joints on my bench when I got them and it was first test for the leads. They got me very stable readings without too much effort while I had to wiggle and push on Uni-T leads to get similar stable results. In the end I don't use BTC leads for everyday work but they are within reach just in case I need to measure some older PCBs. Fluke TL175 are my favorite probes.
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 02:15:08 pm »
Yes they are BTC branded. I am sure they have their uses as you have discovered but I certainly would prefer something more robust and convertible like the ones mentioned in the other review.
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 04:06:04 pm »
Yes they are BTC branded. I am sure they have their uses as you have discovered but I certainly would prefer something more robust and convertible like the ones mentioned in the other review.

I thought they would supply the silicone leads with the gold plated probe tips with the BM-869? The BM-257 I have comes with those and they are REALLY nice. The silicone rubber insulation feels top quality and the internal resistance is only 0.06R as measured by the BM-867 (which I also own and it comes with the same leads too because I special ordered them). Being top of the line in the 860's series I thought the 869 would come with these leads too. You can see a picture of the leads I have here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/brymen-bm-257-pictures-and-mini-review
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Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 12:48:00 am »
Yes it would have been really nice to have those leads. Why a lower end model got them and their top didn't? Who knows?
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 11:50:04 am »
I'm not sure that this meter is such a good deal. At USD300.00 (USD320.00 with the cost of decent leads), you're getting awfully close to Agilent's and Fluke's offerings. This is a meter that looks good on paper, but has no track record of its accuracy and sturdiness, after some months of rough use in the field.
The interconnected PCBs look very busy indeed, with lots of discrete components scattered all over the place around some unknown microcontrollers and ADCs, adding to the possibility of failure. Does it normally come with a lifetime warranty?
Its input protection looks top notch, although the PCB's original sparkgap footprints are populated with what looks to me like MOVs.
From what I can see, the screen display quality is very average and the tiny range switch looks horrid. I would want to work it a few times in person to make sure it won't frustrate me in the long run.
At that price point, I'm also very disappointed that it has no internal data logging and I cannot understand why that USB connection cable has to be so expensive.
It wil be interesting to hear a year from now if your current appraisal has changed somewhat.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 02:06:24 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 04:33:37 pm »
You have some valid points as far as the possible long term reliability goes as this particular model has no track record that I can find. The one thing it does have going for it in this case is that Brymen is an OEM for Amprobe and Extech and this meter is built to the same or better standards as far as I can see. It certainly is much better, MUCH better, than any Uni-T offering I have seen.

I must say though that the Uni-T UT61E display is one of the clearest and easiest to read displays I have seen on any multimeter. The Brymen isn't too bad bad but not as good as the UT61E. As far as the range switch goes, yes it is small but I don't find it an annoyance.

The price of the meter is actually $240. One cannot compare shipping as it does not apply equally. The USB cable is not that much different in price than other offerings from Agilent nor Fluke. So if you count the cost of the meter itself on its own merits compared to other higher end meters, the Brymen is much less expensive.
 
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Offline jjman

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 08:49:14 am »
I'm not sure that this meter is such a good deal. At USD300.00 (USD320.00 with the cost of decent leads), you're getting awfully close to Agilent's and Fluke's offerings. This is a meter that looks good on paper, but has no track record of its accuracy and sturdiness, after some months of rough use in the field.
The interconnected PCBs look very busy indeed, with lots of discrete components scattered all over the place around some unknown microcontrollers and ADCs, adding to the possibility of failure. Does it normally come with a lifetime warranty?
Its input protection looks top notch, although the PCB's original sparkgap footprints are populated with what looks to me like MOVs.
From what I can see, the screen display quality is very average and the tiny range switch looks horrid. I would want to work it a few times in person to make sure it won't frustrate me in the long run.
At that price point, I'm also very disappointed that it has no internal data logging and I cannot understand why that USB connection cable has to be so expensive.
It wil be interesting to hear a year from now if your current appraisal has changed somewhat.


Can you share which is the equivalent (feature wise) Agilent multimeter next to BM869?
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 09:00:13 am »
I think one of the features the Brymen BM-860's series offers that you don't see very often with Fluke or Agilent meters is the dual display. It's obviously not an essential feature as you can always take 2 measures instead but sometimes it could be quite handy. You can measure both the DC and AC components of a voltage at the time for example.
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Offline Wytnucls

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 12:13:31 pm »
http://www.transcat.com/catalog/productdetail.aspx?itemnum=U1251B
5 digit secondary display on the Agilent, 4 digits on the Brymen.
Internal data logging.
3 year warranty.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 12:50:02 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 12:59:13 pm »
http://www.transcat.com/catalog/productdetail.aspx?itemnum=U1251B
5 digit secondary display on the Agilent, 4 digits on the Brymen.
Internal data logging.
3 year warranty.

For the sake of argument, it's only True RMS AC so it still won't do my example measurement :p
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Offline Wytnucls

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2013, 01:10:29 pm »
Well, if you need AC+DC, the U1252B does that too, but that will cost a little more. I'm not sure if both AC and DC can be displayed at the same time actually, so the Brymen may win in this special case.  ;D
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 05:21:57 pm »
Certainly the Agilents can offer other features and a better range on the frequency meter function, but at a much higher price. The Brymen succeeds in a very good safety design and with all the features anyone is likely to need. I would have preferred a higher frequency range but it is only one "big" problem IMHO. I would have liked to see a better hold function than the lame one it has too but the crest factor function or record function can be pushed into service for that.

The Agilent 1251 that you linked to is $390 vs $240 for the Brymen. I would hardly call that a fair comparison.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2013, 05:41:13 pm »
Yes, but if you want data logging, the cable costs another $50, a decent set of leads $20, it then pushes the price to $310. With the $390 Agilent, you get a free BT module worth $50, internal logging and a three year warranty, not to mention a solid reputation.
You didn't say what kind of warranty your seller is providing.
I think that when you weigh it all in, these meters aren't so far apart and one should give pause before a buying decision is made.
It doesn't reflect badly on the Brymen. If it lives up to the specs sheet in the long term, I'm sure you won't regret your purchase.
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2013, 06:37:04 pm »
The Brymen has a 1 year warranty. Sorry I kept forgetting to mention that. Not great compared to other companies.

Yes I agree, when you compare it the way you have done it does bring the price closer. I see your point to that extent. But I still contend that taken on its own merit, the BM869 is a good buy and a good price. If you want data logging and the 3 year warranty then maybe the Agilent is a better buy but still at least $80 more, or $100 if you accept the Brymen leads as they are. They are not bad, they are just not what I expected.

I just did something I forgot to do when testing the leads. I cleaned the tips and the lead resistance dropped from 0.12 ohms to 0.07 ohms. They are acceptable leads rated at 1KV 10A CATIV. They will be great leads for fine electronics work, but it is my preference to have two or three sets of different leads for different work anyway.

So, given that you don't need different leads as they are decent, there is a $100 price difference. That is not small. For that difference you can buy an Amprobe AM-270 and have the two meter minimum that anyone should have and both of them CATIII 1000 CATIV 600 rated and with good accuracy. Or if you want to make a closer price comparison then I would compare my other choice for a multimeter in this class, the UEi DM397. All included for around $280 plus it has a 5 year warranty. It does stand alone data recording, but only 20 readings. It might even be a better buy than the BM869 but I knew the inside construction of the Brymen and was more comfortable with it for current hazardous solar energy work.
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2013, 11:21:52 pm »
I emailed Brymen asking about the different probes I received. This is their reply:

"Standard BM869 or BM257 unit is with the test lead set which is same as the one which you received. Some of our agents thought to use the test lead set which you mention for our meters would help their sales in their markets, even if they would increase listing prices. Thus they decided to pay higher and requested us to send their order units specially with that test lead set. "
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2013, 08:50:58 am »
After reviewing the reviews, I realized that Brymen perhaps has misrepresented what probes are included as standard equipment when they send Kiriakos a review sample with the leads he had and then sell the meter with much lesser leads. If there is something I am not truly happy with Brymen is that they seem to be misrepresenting the included equipment as far as leads go.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 08:55:50 am by Lightages »
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2013, 09:21:59 am »
After reviewing the reviews, I realized that Brymen perhaps has misrepresented what probes are included as standard equipment when they send Kiriakos a review sample with the leads he had and then sell the meter with much lesser leads. If there is something I am not truly happy with Brymen is that they seem to be misrepresenting the included equipment as far as leads go.

I think what's "standard" depends very much on who you are buying from. I am ordering a few BM-521's and 525's directly from Taiwan for my eBay store, and specifically asked if they would come with the silicone insulated and gold plated probes and they said yes.
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Offline Tepe

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2013, 11:56:31 am »
The Brymen has a 1 year warranty.
In the EU, you are covered for the first two years (unless of course the seller goes away).
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2013, 12:35:56 am »
I'm not sure that this meter is such a good deal. At USD300.00 (USD320.00 with the cost of decent leads), you're getting awfully close to Agilent's and Fluke's offerings. This is a meter that looks good on paper, but has no track record of its accuracy and sturdiness, after some months of rough use in the field.
The interconnected PCBs look very busy indeed, with lots of discrete components scattered all over the place around some unknown microcontrollers and ADCs, adding to the possibility of failure. Does it normally come with a lifetime warranty?
Its input protection looks top notch, although the PCB's original sparkgap footprints are populated with what looks to me like MOVs.
From what I can see, the screen display quality is very average and the tiny range switch looks horrid. I would want to work it a few times in person to make sure it won't frustrate me in the long run.
At that price point, I'm also very disappointed that it has no internal data logging and I cannot understand why that USB connection cable has to be so expensive.
It will be interesting to hear a year from now if your current appraisal has changed somewhat.
You've some valid points here IMHO.

I didn't see a warranty period listed for Brymen at all, though rebrands do. Greenlee offers a limited lifetime warranty, and Extech 3yrs (same as the older 85x series).

I picked up a BM857A on eBay, and should get it in the coming week (only paid $70 for it, including shipping in the US). But this isn't the norm vs. buying either from www.tme.eu or a rebranded as an Extech (MM560A is the same unit I have on the way).

Here in the US, I managed to locate a Greenlee DM-860A for $312 (other sources were ~$387). At that price, it's nearly what I paid for my Agilent U1252B ($350). Not much value in comparison (none with the wrong vendor), even without accounting for accessories, shipping, or reliability history.

The price of the meter is actually $240. One cannot compare shipping as it does not apply equally. The USB cable is not that much different in price than other offerings from Agilent nor Fluke. So if you count the cost of the meter itself on its own merits compared to other higher end meters, the Brymen is much less expensive.
For a true value comparison, shipping would need to be included, as well as any accessories. Problem is, this would have to be done by each individual due to location, as importing may remove the value vs. something that can be had within country.

As per accessories, the data connector for Agilent is actually cheaper than Brymen (paid $30, and the software is a free download). Seeing the Brymen/Greenlee/Extech for $80 (US source). Leads can be had anywhere, and I'd use Probemaster due to the value they offer (i.e. $15 for silicone leads only). BTW, these prices don't include shipping, but they're within the US, so would very likely be cheaper than importing.

However, if someone can find one at a much better price, such as the older BM857A I managed to locate on eBay, the value would be there. At the price I paid, even adding an $80 cable and set of leads, would put it ~$165. That's less than half the cost of the U1252B without accessories.

Can you share which is the equivalent (feature wise) Agilent multimeter next to BM869?
U1252B (dual display LCD, 1kV fuses, 50k counts, similar features).

After reviewing the reviews, I realized that Brymen perhaps has misrepresented what probes are included as standard equipment when they send Kiriakos a review sample with the leads he had and then sell the meter with much lesser leads. If there is something I am not truly happy with Brymen is that they seem to be misrepresenting the included equipment as far as leads go.
Sadly, this isn't really surprising.  :'(

But because I expected something like this (poor quality probes), figuring in a good set of probes will still keep me under $100.  :) Just wish deals like this were much more common, and available to people regardless of location.
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 07:42:32 am »
After a couple of email exchanges with Brymen, I am going to eat my words.

"We supply different product combinations to different importers to serve their specific markets. The test leads you received are made of stainless steel with finely ground tips. Stainless steel is more expensive than brass, and is more difficult to machine. The reason for using that is to increase the toughness and ductility of the tips making them sharp enough to stab into oxidized conductors as commonly found in CAT III and CAT IV areas. They are more durable and are less apt to break for heavy duty use.
 
Brass tips with electro-plating protection are good for minute signal changes with minimized contact resistance. However, they wear out faster over time than that of stainless steel, and is not suitable for stabbing into rusty areas.
 
If you think that Brass tips work better in your application, we can offer you a free replacement in such case. However, to save the work for both of us, you will need to send back your stainless steel test leads to us with prepaid shipment before or after you get the free replacement from us in principle. That is, we will absorb our replacement test leads and mailing cost to you, and you will need to pay for the mailing cost for your return test leads to us. Please advise if you really want to do so."


It is obvious that Brymen takes their customer's satisfaction seriously and I apologize for anything I have said contrary in this regard about Brymen. I have decided to keep the leads as supplied.
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 09:12:14 am »
Brymen is a great company. They make good quality products and they are very responsive to customer inquiries. That is the only reason why I continue to stock their products even though it makes no financial sense for me to do so. I simply love them.
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 07:02:46 pm »
Brymen is a great company. They make good quality products and they are very responsive to customer inquiries. That is the only reason why I continue to stock their products even though it makes no financial sense for me to do so. I simply love them.

I think the only negative things to say about Brymen are

- Their joke of a web site. I much prefer a company with good products and a lousy web site than the other way around, but doesn't Brymen have some pride?

- Not enough distributors. Or maybe they have, but they don't tell anyone who they are.

From all the no-name brands they are the only one where I think they are honest with their CAT ratings.
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Offline Spawn

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 07:23:54 pm »
- Not enough distributors. Or maybe they have, but they don't tell anyone who they are.

Yes, after having the rebadged Brymen from Extech I was looking for different models to get one, but  I can’t find any distributors and I refuse to buy rebadged stuff from our friends (Extech) again, even on ebay only one I can find is the one sold by Franky which ships to my country.
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 07:50:06 pm »
I had a bit of a rough time with TME in Poland, but it all worked out in the end. I would give them a try again. www.tme.eu

Their prices are really good on the Brymens too.
 


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