Author Topic: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?  (Read 38179 times)

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Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #75 on: May 19, 2016, 05:43:53 pm »
Finally, here is a python script to display the data coming from the BM869s via the Arduino.  Once again I had to rename the file from 'stripchart_BM869s.py' to 'stripchart_BM869s.py.c'.  So before using it don't forget to rename the file so it has the .py extension!  The attached image shows the output of the script.
I am having difficulty opening the GUI. I used the rename function to try to remove the .c file extension. The file does, now, display in the menu list without the .c extension, however the Properties shows that the .c extension is still there.

Anyone know how to clear this up? I am using Windows 8.1.
EDIT: Solved; I needed to go into the Folder Properties settings and enable seeing the full file name.

Still need to know: I am not accustomed to Python scripts... What software do I need, and how do I run, the app?
EDIT: I wasn't sure that I even had Python on my computer, so I installed v3.5... I still don't understand what to do next...

Board Update: The Eagle boards are in production at OSH Park...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 06:59:17 pm by t1d »
 

Offline JackM

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2016, 02:49:39 am »
Still need to know: I am not accustomed to Python scripts... What software do I need, and how do I run, the app?
EDIT: I wasn't sure that I even had Python on my computer, so I installed v3.5... I still don't understand what to do next...

Run the script using the Python interpreter. How did you install Python? I'm guessing that you didn't add the python interpreter to the PATH environment variable since the default install doesn't do that. You should however have the "py" Python launcher program though, since that is installed by default.

Open a Windows command prompt, change directory to where the python script is, and then run it with
Code: [Select]
py script_filename.py
Have a look here if you're still stuck: https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html

You should also note that jesuscf's python script that he posted makes use of a few other python libraries (numpy, matplotlib, etc). You will also need to install these libraries to python before you can use them. If they're not installed, python will give you an error when it attempts to import them.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 02:51:39 am by JackM »
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2016, 04:02:27 am »
Thanks, Jack, but I must admit this is outside of my skill set... Python27 was already installed on my laptop. I have also installed Python35. But neither seem to be added properly. I have gone into the system environmental variables to get the path, but I don't see the path information for either of the Python versions. So, I don't know the path to add to the command line... If it sounds like I might have some understanding, please know that I am faking it...
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2016, 03:09:22 pm »
I found a video with simple instructions and I installed the path for Python27:


Now, I am working on learning how to run the Reflow Oven script, itself...
 

Offline serggio

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2016, 07:47:44 pm »
Gentlemen,
Could you explain me, why you using PIC controller for your project instead of FTDI USB UART IC? I do not have any experience with Brymen, but Is suppose than they also use UART communication interface, because UART present in every microcontrollers. This is just Rx and Tx lines.
 

Offline jadew

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2016, 07:51:53 pm »
@serggio,

It's not the same protocol. It just transmits a stream of bits, each representing one segment of the screen.
 

Offline serggio

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2016, 07:59:46 pm »
@serggio,

It's not the same protocol. It just transmits a stream of bits, each representing one segment of the screen.
What you mean protocol? I asking about hardware, not about protocol. UART or COM, or USB, this is interface. Protocol can be defined by sets of commands, can be on physical or program layers.
How your connection adapter introduced inside of Brymen software? Like USB or COM device?
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2016, 01:57:11 am »
What you mean protocol? I asking about hardware, not about protocol. UART or COM, or USB, this is interface. Protocol can be defined by sets of commands, can be on physical or program layers.
How your connection adapter introduced inside of Brymen software? Like USB or COM device?
Hi, Serggio,

I joined in this thread, long after it was begun. It appears that the controller was selected early in the development. The Arduino controller platform was the groups preference, most likely because 1) of its ease of use, 2) lots of people already own one and 3) everyone's familiarity with programming it. This history is on the first couple of pages of the thread.

I will be using my controller design that I built around a Microchip PIC18F4550. It is similar to what is called a "Pinquino," a controller platform developed by the Microchip user community, in response to the Arduino.

I am using it, because 1) I have the hardware completed, 2) my brother is finishing up the software for all sorts of applications and 3) it is fun to use what we have built, ourselves. The PIC18F4550 will receive the IR code information and send the information to my laptop, by USB.

I don't think it is a matter of anyone thinking that one type of controller system is better than another. I think it is about what people simply want to do. However, these are just my personal observations and suppositions; I certainly am not speaking as a leader of the group. It just looked to be a fun project, of benefit to me, as I own a BM869s, and somewhere where I could make a contribution to the group, by designing the Eagle hardware files... I say use the controller of your choice and go for it...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 02:02:03 am by t1d »
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2016, 02:33:59 am »
Re: Lockstep Boards
My Lockstep boards have arrived from OSH Park. They were ordered on the 13th and came today. So, 13 days to delivery; not bad.
I have not had time to work with them, fully, yet. But here are my observations.
1) It appears that the curves on the board will seat properly in the brackets.
2) I will have to sand the tops of the curves, just a hair, to get them to slide under the bracket.
3) My concerns as to the placement of the IR components seems to have been correct, meaning that they will need to be moved in toward the center, a bit. I did use the 6mm measurement. But, this measurement may have been to the edge of the hole? I thought it was to the center of the hole.
4) All the pads seem to be adequate.
5) OSH Park placed break-off tabs on the curved ends of the board. I will sand them off, but I need to remember to ask them to refrain from placing them there, on the next batch...

I am pleased with these, as a prototype. I think I will be able to get all the information from them that I need to finalize the design.

I still could use instructions on how to launch the Python GUI from the command line. I have installed the path, correctly.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2016, 06:21:24 am »
I have done some measuring and confirmed that the center of the IR components should be at 7mm, not 6mm. So, I have reworked the board. Here is what I think the final layout will likely be... The sanding and testing the fit are still pending.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2016, 10:05:31 pm »
Re: Lockstep Board

I have done the final sanding and the board locks into the bracket, perfectly. I only had to sand off the break-off points and remove the top coat of the solder resist, under the bracket tab areas. It was very easy, and very minor, work.

Then, I built up the PCB, using purple LEDs as substitutes for the IR components. This made for a cool looking mock-up and made it possible to check the hole locations in the board. Yes, the holes did need to be relocated, inward.

Changes:
1) Rearranged component names to make them more legible.
2) Moved the logo from the bottom surface to the top, to limit scratching of the DMM lens and reduce the thickness of the board.
3) Moved holes, inward.
4) Moved the IR component pads, for better access.

I have contacted OSH Park, regarding not placing break-off points on the curved edges. Ordering the final (I  hope) design is pending their reply.

My new cell phone doesn't want to give me access to my pictures. I will try to have a friend make some and get them posted. But, no promises. Here is the lastest draft jpeg.
 

Offline serggio

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2016, 07:11:21 am »
You need rearrange not only component name, but entire all board should be redesigned.
You need go to double side PCB to prevent tracing connectors between components pads. Your board highly noisily with current designs.
Central pads is just contact pads or soldering pads? If it soldering, change it to connector pad.
R1, R2 pads seems oversized for standard 0805 components too


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Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #87 on: May 28, 2016, 07:51:56 am »
You make a good point about the noise, Serggio. I did give the design considerable thought and I did have to make compromises.

The traces are routed on top of the board, because the bottom of the board mates to the meter. This mating surface will be exposed to wear, which would erode any traces routed on that side. Additionally, traces on the bottom would add texture to the bottom and cause additional wear.

SMD pads were used as solder points for the through-hole components, because their pins can not penetrate the board. The through-hole components will require their pins to be trimmed and "feet" bent on the pins to rest on the pads, for soldering. I used this method to mock up the prototype, today, and it works well.

One thing that I could do to improve the trace clearances is to reduce the width of the traces. I used traces that are much wider than needed. I will heed your advice and make them more narrow, to try to avoid the noise problem, now.

Adding a ground plane might be an option, also. I will give that a look.

Only testing will indicate, if the noise level is a problem. I will only be able to do that level of testing, after I get the new version of the board.

Please feel free to propose your own design. I would be glad to have your help.

I would like to make a SMD version of the board, also. But, I am having difficulty locating the IR components in SMD. If you know of these components, please let me know.

Thank you very much for your observations.
 

Offline serggio

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #88 on: May 28, 2016, 08:24:35 am »
Make double side board with mini USB or other small one connector (molex and etc.) and join board to your meter with double side stickly (Scotch) tape. You will not need to disattaching board and scratching your meter, just attaching connector will be needed for connect it to PC.
But this is still bad, because your controller will be at separate board and you will need connect it with your board by wires.
When I worked with my prototype with same design (like your), I used ~ 50 cm wires between boards. I was not able to have good signal from my photodiode because of big capacitance in wiring and etc. It was worked, but not enough well. When I placed tr/rx diodes to main board I received double strength signal it tx line.
I do not know what SMD led may be suggest to you   because I dont test it. I told you about Vishay they have wide range diodes in any cases. Check availability required components to you and do some testing.
This picture from my final board where I measured signal on Vishay TEFD 4300 photodiode in series with 68 kohm resistor.
On my prototype board with wiring connection I have twice less signal with 36 kohm  and with 68-100 kohm signal was not acceptable to convert it to TTL


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« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 04:02:30 pm by serggio »
 

Offline npelov

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2016, 03:28:10 pm »
I checked the links in the first few posts and they didn't work, so I decided to post a link to all the protocols:

http://brymen.com/product-html/software-download/Protocols/

I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if it's already posted.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2016, 05:50:29 pm »
Make double side board with mini USB or other small one connector (molex and etc.) and join board to your meter with double side stickly (Scotch) tape. You will not need to disattaching board and scratching your meter, just attaching connector will be needed for connect it to PC.
This is a good suggestion, but it is not the type of functionality that I, personally, desire. I want to be able to remove the silicone cover to access batteries, fuses, etc.
But this is still bad, because your controller will be at separate board and you will need connect it with your board by wires.
When I worked with my prototype with same design (like your), I used ~ 50 cm wires between boards. I was not able to have good signal from my photodiode because of big capacitance in wiring and etc. It was worked, but not enough well. When I placed tr/rx diodes to main board I received double strength signal it tx line.
You may recall that the others that designed the system are using controllers separated from the IR board by wire. I am using this type of system, also, so a wire is necessary. They were able to get it to work. I am hopeful that I will be able to, also. Some folks lowered the resistor values to increase the output.
I do not know what SMD led may be suggest to you   because I dont test it. I told you about Vishay they have wide range diodes in any cases. Check availability required components to you and do some testing.
I did research the SMDs that you suggested. The best that I could tell, the SMD IRs have a higher amperage draw that  could not be readily fulfilled by the USB power supply. I may have that all wrong, as I do not know much about these components.

This picture from my final board where I measured signal on Vishay TEFD 4300 photodiode in series with 68 kohm resistor.
On my prototype board with wiring connection I have twice less signal with 36 kohm  and with 68-100 kohm signal was not acceptable to convert it to TTL
Yes, that is a cool picture. You have very nice measurement equipment.
 

Offline serggio

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2016, 06:02:36 pm »
I did research the SMDs that you suggested. The best that I could tell, the SMD IRs have a higher amperage draw that  could not be readily fulfilled by the USB power supply. I may have that all wrong, as I do not know much about these components.
Hi t1d.
Could you explain please, what you mean above? To receive signal from photodiode you should connect in reverse to your chain. That is mean cathode to positive rail, anode to resistor, resistor to ground rail. Absolute max reverse voltage for photodiodes usually 30-60 V. USB is 5 V only. You can use any photodiode in USB powered device.
Could you post your schematic pls?   
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2016, 06:52:51 pm »
Hi, Serggio,

Not voltage, rather, amperage. The controller can only supply 20mA, per pin, if I remember correctly. The SMD IRs seemed to require more than that, if I read the specs correctly.

I did not develop the schematic. I used the IR portion of the circuit specified at post #41/Pg 2.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2016, 06:54:52 pm »
Here is the updated board, per Serggio's suggestions.
 

Offline serggio

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2016, 06:58:57 pm »
Not voltage, rather, amperage. The controller can only supply 20mA, per pin, if I remember correctly. The SMD IRs seemed to require more than that, if I read the specs correctly.
:o
You telling about emitting LED. But you need use it in series with resistor! Resistor for limiting current consuming by LED. If your LED have 1,2 V forward voltage for 10 mA, then you need connect resistor in series 5-1,2 = 3,8 V. R=U/I = 3,8/0,01 = 380 Ohm.  :-//

« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 07:29:46 pm by serggio »
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2016, 07:15:44 pm »
Not voltage, rather, amperage. The controller can only supply 20mA, per pin, if I remember correctly. The SMD IRs seemed to require more than that, if I read the specs correctly.
:o
You telling about emitting LED. But you need use it in series with resistor! Resistor for limiting current that consume LED. If your LED have 1,2 V forward voltage for 10 mA, then you need connect resistor in series 5-1,2 = 3,8 V. R=U/I = 3,8/0,01 = 380 Ohm.  :-//
There was a discussion of the needed value of the resistor. Because flexibility in the value seemed to be needed, I did not specify the resistor values on the board; I simply provided the pads for whatever resistor might be used. My contribution to the development is really about making a board that will lock into the bracket, without having to make the board from scratch. JadeW will need to address your question, as to the resistor value. You are providing impressive help! Please keep it coming!
 

Offline serggio

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2016, 07:23:31 pm »
There was a discussion of the needed value of the resistor. Because flexibility in the value seemed to be needed, I did not specify the resistor values on the board; I simply provided the pads for whatever resistor might be used. My contribution to the development is really about making a board that will lock into the bracket, without having to make the board from scratch. JadeW will need to address your question, as to the resistor value. You are providing impressive help! Please keep it coming!
You no need to print components nominal on board. Only name needed.
Newer try projecting board without schematic! You need have complete tested solution first, then you can trace your board according your scheme and place it to production!  ;)
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2016, 08:11:31 pm »
Yes, that is the typical method of proper development. From my understanding of the work of the other contributors, the circuit has been tested and was successful.

You may have noticed that I have not released the my Eagle file, yet. That is because I will prove the design, for myself, before offering it to others.

I am having the prototype boards manufactured, because they are so cheap and I have had limited success, with printing my own boards.

Please stay involved and keep me on the right track. I appreciate you!
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2016, 10:00:54 pm »
I built a cardboard form to try potting the components on the board in hot glue. It is cooling, now.
Here is what I recommend:
1) Lay out the measurements of the box on thin cardboard; 32mmL x 10mmW x 32mmL x 10mmW. Make the fence high enough to cover the components and their bent leads... Mine is 12mmH. These dimensions will change on the new version of the board.
2) Cut the cardboard, vertically, at the vertical points. Do not cut the horizontals, yet.
3) Cover the cardboard with tape that is resistant to the hot glue... Kapton tape would be good.
4) Cut the horizontal line and remove the fence strip from the remaining cardboard. Do not cut the vertical tape joints.
5) Fold the fence strip into a rectangle with the tape to the inside of the fence.
6) Cover the outside of the fence with tape.
7) Secure the fence to the board. The fence will try to float up and allow glue to ooze out the bottom, if you don't secure it well.
8) Make a heat shield to protect the wiring.
9) Heat a stick of hot glue and fill the cavity. I used a heat gun.
You could use proper potting, or some sort of glue, but I did not want to go to that expense, for prototyping.
I can make a drawing, if the instructions are not clear.

EDIT: Things I learned
- Make a dam, out of aluminum foil, and wrap it around the convex end of the IR components, to close the gap between them and the board, to prevent glue from filling their holes.
- Cover the bottom of the board with tape, to protect that surface.
- Make the fence higher than needed, to accommodate shrinkage, due to the cooling of the hot glue.

I have an extra board, if someone would like to:
- Verify the traces
- Verify the fit in the bracket
- Practice potting
I would be glad to mail it to anyone in the USA/Lower48. Just send me a pm with your mailing address.
Please know that the IR component holes are not exactly in the correct spot, so this is not a functional board.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 01:59:37 am by t1d »
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #99 on: June 01, 2016, 01:21:51 am »
I have ordered the updated boards from OSH Park, as of tonight.
 


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