Rigol DSO2302A or DHO1072?

[tautech]

So the need for an ultra accurate scope might not be in my main focus. But why not looking for wide bandwidths and fast sampling rate?

Still, you need set yourself some basic requirements for these. ^^^

Typically 1 GSa/s is enough which with applying Nyquist will provide ~400 MHz but only for a single channel.
Engage a 2nd and sampling and mem depth halves and in DSO's with a single ADC, a 3rd channel can halve that again.

DSO's that use 2 or more ADC's don't suffer in the same way if we use them smart by assigning channels to each ADC. Only when a 3rd channel is activated are there impacts on the sampling rate and therefore also max BW.

[Fotom]

Yes, this is maybe the best question. So far I am well equipment with gear and I will figure out what exactly I miss when I start the project.

Like you said already, some gear has pros that others do not have.

The MicSig is well for in car operation, the pros are:

- very mobile
- no need to have a power cord
- cables for the probes are connected on the top (but sometimes they are slightly short)
- touch usability
- no ground issues

Let me finish my first setup on my bench with the equipment and I will find out what I maybe miss.

[Fotom]

After the teardown shown here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigols-new-dho800-oscilloscope-unbox-teardown/ the HDO800 will be out of my interest.

[Fungus]

So the need for an ultra accurate scope might not be in my main focus. But why not looking for wide bandwidths and fast sampling rate?

That sounds like a Rigol MSO5000 to me ... 350Mhz bandwidth, 8GSa/s sample rate.

(all hackable from the base model)

[Fotom]

The MSO5000 indeed is very interesting. I was a bit too slow... there had been a 5074 for €749 last week... couldn't fetch it.

[skander36]

Rigol 2K is a good scope fast and stable but as others said has an 8 bit ADC. It cand do Hi-Res with limited BW but software as many scopes do. It has 50 ohm input and LA with a proprietary format connector. You can do you job with him, but is a little outdated for this times. You will not get FW updates as last FW is from 2019. I've had a 2072 but I changed it for Rigol 5K.
HDO1072 (I have also this model) is a much better choice, because is a modern design. At the time it was launched this firmware was not very stable but now at v. 2.07 it do a good job. No LA, No AWG or Bode Plot.
I think Rigol 5K is better for you. It has 4 channels and full of features.(Touch zone trigger,more decoding protocols,2 ch. AWG, Bode plot, power analisys,). It can be noisy for very low signals but for protcol decoding is perfect.
The only problem with Rigol is lack of technical support. On rigol Europe is only an email adress(info-europe@rigol.com) where you get no answer. So I strongly recomend to purchase through resellers like Batterfly or Batronix which have their own support channels and help you with any problem.

[nctnico]

IMHO the Rigol MSO5000 has too much noise. Whenever you do want to look at a an analog signal, you'll be looking at a band of noise and missing out on the information you need. Hi-res is just a crutch. I used to own a very noisy scope (expensive model as well) and it was a nuisance to use.

[skander36]

IMHO the Rigol MSO5000 has too much noise. Whenever you do want to look at a an analog signal, you'll be looking at a band of noise and missing out on the information you need. Hi-res is just a crutch. I used to own a very noisy scope (expensive model as well) and it was a nuisance to use.

Yes it's clear that Rigol5k is not suitable for analyzing low level audio/radio signals. But over 50 mV RMS, is perfectly usable. Also you can analyze low signals captured with maximum memory (200 mpts).
I didn't find HiRes function too much useful on any scope I used.
If the OP is bind to these two models I would recomend HDO1072.

[Fungus]

IMHO the Rigol MSO5000 has too much noise. Whenever you do want to look at a an analog signal, you'll be looking at a band of noise and missing out on the information you need.

Simply not true.

It's only a problem when you're looking at mV signals, which plenty of people never do.

[Martin72]

So plenty of people do not need a 12 bit scope...
(Which is a fact)

Noise of the rigol 5000:

I´ve measured the ripple of a linear supply (1mV rms ripple according to the datsheet) with my former MSO5074.
First pic shows....Noise. 
Second pic shows the ripple when using averaging mode (64times).

[Fotom]

Good point. There are some amplifiers I want to check as well. NF signal at preout should be 470mV and above. Or am I wrong at that point?

The audio signal coming out of my radio unit in my car should be around 6 V and above. That I will find out latest tomorrow... and that is something I want to check with the scope, too.

The CAN signal is 2 - 4 V. All scopes should handle that without problem.

When looking at the available scopes then at least I am doing things at the lower end of the lines and all of them in a range below 2000 Euro seems to be the "entry" stuff in different degrees. Would it be worth to spend 2000 Euro and more for me? I guess not.

The special price offer for the MSO2302 is gone now. The DSO2202 is still available, but the latest I have seen is around 1070. Therefor I can get a MSO5074 or a DHO1074. Hm...

I had no time today for a pre setup. Hope there will be within the next days.

[2N3055]

Good point. There are some amplifiers I want to check as well. NF signal at preout should be 470mV and above. Or am I wrong at that point?

The audio signal coming out of my radio unit in my car should be around 6 V and above. That I will find out latest tomorrow... and that is something I want to check with the scope, too.

The CAN signal is 2 - 4 V. All scopes should handle that without problem.

When looking at the available scopes then at least I am doing things at the lower end of the lines and all of them in a range below 2000 Euro seems to be the "entry" stuff in different degrees. Would it be worth to spend 2000 Euro and more for me? I guess not.

The special price offer for the MSO2302 is gone now. The DSO2202 is still available, but the latest I have seen is around 1070. Therefor I can get a MSO5074 or a DHO1074. Hm...

I had no time today for a pre setup. Hope there will be within the next days.

For proper looking into CAN and FlexRay SI you would need a differential probe. To get decent results on 10MBit FlexRay 200MHz+ diff probe is preferred. Same with the scope.  100MHz should work for cursory check, but 200MHz+ would be preferred.

Make note that it is rise/fall time that is important, not actual frequency BW. Average 200MHz scope will have less than 1,8 ns risetime, and combined with 200 MHz probe (with similar risetime) will result in 2,5ns system risetime (they combine RMS) and that should be enough to measure 10 ns edges with cca. 3-4% error... 100MHz scope +100MHz probe (with 3ns risetimes estimated) would give cca. 8% errors..

You would need to check both signals in a pair single ended and differentially to see if all is in spec.
You also need triggering for those protocols if you plan to look for specific things, like errors or specific packets.

Some scopes will also do eye diagrams and full characterization of SI  on both protocols, but not in a price range we are discussing here.

There are quite a few whitepapers and info on SI testing on these protocols on Internet. I suggest a bit of dive into it to get a feeling how deep the rabbit hole goes and then decide how deep you want to go..

[Fotom]

Thank you for that point of view. It seems that the "bigger" scopes are not only more expensive because of higher BW, but also the probes need to be different as well.

That is maybe one reason to go for a >200MHz BW scope.

[Fotom]

Hello again,

a lot happened but unfortunately some bad things as well, so I had to spend some time in the hospital with my son.

But besides that I had an interesting visit in a technical section and was allowed to take a glance at several test- units, all equipped with all kind of scopes, power supplies, counter and frequency analyzing tools. Most impressive the Keysight 1GHz/ 5GSa/s scopes with, what, 15 or 17" TFTs? Several rack mounted stuff as well. That was "Wow"...

At least I know now, that I want to have a signal generator as well. Any suggestions therefor?

[Fungus]

At least I know now, that I want to have a signal generator as well. Any suggestions therefor?

The new Rigol DHO900 is arriving right now.

[Fotom]

DHO900 looks pretty well so far. Does it has a signal generator on board?

[Martin72]

Yes, the "S" version:

https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Rigol-DHO914S.html