buy a better oscilloscope than the Siglent SDS1104X-E

[uargo]

Hello, good afternoon. I wanted to ask you a question/query.
If you already had an oscilloscope (SIGLENT SDS1104X-E) and you were thinking of buying a better oscilloscope, one step further, which oscilloscope would you choose.

Stuff I already have:
* Riden RD6006P power supply
* Chinese linear power supply 30V 5A
* Siglent SDM3045X Multimeter
* UNI-T UT71E Multimeter
* Siglent SDG1032X signal generator
* Siglent SDS1104X-E Oscilloscope

Oscilloscope options I'm considering:
  * Siglent SDS2104X PLUS (8 bit, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol MSO5074 (8 bit, touch screen, 8GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol HDO1104 (12 bits, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)

Suggestions of other oscilloscopes are accepted but for no more than €1,500, preferably touch screen, 4 channels, minimum 2gsa/s, if it has 10 or 12 bits better, and that can be hacked at 200Mhz or more

Thanks in advance

[Martin72]

Hi uargo,

* Siglent SDS2104X PLUS (8 bit, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol MSO5074 (8 bit, touch screen, 8GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol HDO1104 (12 bits, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)

Exactly in this order...

In total, the siglent would be the "best" of the three, by the way it has a 10bit mode (with limited bandwidth 100Mhz).
The good old MSO5074 certainly has its charm and is over-featured, but has a slightly smaller screen, is still not bug-free and is not exactly low-noise.
The HDO has (in my opinion) currently only one advantage and that is the 12Bit resolution.
Otherwise, it is not yet mature, some features are missing.
I myself owned the siglent and the rigol MSO and had a HDO4024 on loan at the beginning of this year.

[tautech]

Oscilloscope options I'm considering:
  * Siglent SDS2104X PLUS (8 bit, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol MSO5074 (8 bit, touch screen, 8GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol HDO1104 (12 bits, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)

Suggestions of other oscilloscopes are accepted but for no more than €1,500, preferably touch screen, 4 channels, minimum 2gsa/s, if it has 10 or 12 bits better, and that can be hacked at 200Mhz or more

Thanks in advance

Considering you already have SDG1032X and if you use the SDS1104X-E Bode plot feature another Siglent DSO might be a sound decision for their plug and play capability.

SDS2104X Plus is on worldwide promotion with a free BW upgrade to the 200 MHz model, SDS2204X Plus.
I have tested both those models to ~185 and 300 MHz BW.

If not in a hurry, the soon to be released 12 bit SDS1000X HD also might be of interest however it only offers 1 GSa/s.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-coming/

[uargo]

The MSO5074 has the problem of very exaggerated background noise.
The SDS2104X plus has 10bit mode, but does it really work well?

[uargo]

Oscilloscope options I'm considering:
  * Siglent SDS2104X PLUS (8 bit, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol MSO5074 (8 bit, touch screen, 8GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)
  * Rigol HDO1104 (12 bits, touch screen, 2GSa/s, 4 channels, hackable)

Suggestions of other oscilloscopes are accepted but for no more than €1,500, preferably touch screen, 4 channels, minimum 2gsa/s, if it has 10 or 12 bits better, and that can be hacked at 200Mhz or more

Thanks in advance

Considering you already have SDG1032X and if you use the SDS1104X-E Bode plot feature another Siglent DSO might be a sound decision for their plug and play capability.

SDS2104X Plus is on worldwide promotion with a free BW upgrade to the 200 MHz model, SDS2204X Plus.
I have tested both those models to ~185 and 300 MHz BW.

If not in a hurry, the soon to be released 12 bit SDS1000X HD also might be of interest however it only offers 1 GSa/s.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-coming/

I didn't know anything about the SDS1000X HD, do you know the features, price and date?

[tautech]

I didn't know anything about the SDS1000X HD, do you know the features, price and date?

I have one. 

It's very much like SDS2000X HD with less features and only 200 MHz max.
No internal AWG and different LA/MSO which uses same module as SDS1104X-E.

Price is a guess but we expect under $1k. No release date is yet available but we expect before years end.

[Martin72]

The SDS2104X plus has 10bit mode, but does it really work well?

AFAIK yes, there are some demonstrations in the huge SDS2000X+ thread, but don´t ask me where exactly..
Another question is whether you really need 10, 12 or more bit resolution.

[coppice]

Hello, good afternoon. I wanted to ask you a question/query.
If you already had an oscilloscope (SIGLENT SDS1104X-E) and you were thinking of buying a better oscilloscope, one step further, which oscilloscope would you choose.

Define better. Some want more resolution. Some want more bandwidth. If you haven't specified I suspect you just want more expensive.

[tautech]

The SDS2104X plus has 10bit mode, but does it really work well?

AFAIK yes, there are some demonstrations in the huge SDS2000X+ thread, but don´t ask me where exactly..
Another question is whether you really need 10, 12 or more bit resolution.

In the first few pages of the SDS2000X Plus thread.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2786952/#msg2786952

In screenshots there in the timebase panel we can see the 10 bit mode indicator displayed.

[Martin72]

Btw @uargo,

I´ve daily access to both scopes, SDS2104X+ and SDS1104X-E, just saying..

[uargo]

ok thanks everyone, I think the question then would be:
SDS2104X PLUS or SDS1104X HD?

I am designing an antenna rotor controller and I need to reduce the noise from the power supply and the reference voltage for the ADC readings. I need a fairly accurate oscilloscope to see the noise at 600uV or less

[Martin72]

So the MSO5074 from rigol will be definitely out of the game...

[coppice]

So the MSO5074 from rigol will be definitely out of the game...

The MSO5074 is currently 810 pounds + VAT in the UK. The SDS2104X+ is 1050 pounds + VAT. If you can afford the higher price you get a better instrument. The market seems to be functioning properly.

[uargo]

but why do I want to buy the Rigol MSO5074 if it doesn't work for me later. The question is whether the Siglent SDS2104X PLUS will suffice, or better the Siglent SDS1000X HD or the Rigol HDO1000X HD.
Can someone who has these oscilloscopes advise me?

[2N3055]

But what does "better" mean in  this context?
You need to provide more detail of work to be performed to get more targeted advice.
Maybe you don't need a "better" scope at all?
What is a type of work you could not do that prompted you to want a "better" scope. Start with that.


Siglent SDS2104X Plus is a 500 MHz scope platform. Low noise, good for both high BW and small signals. MSO. Very good BODE plot.

Rigol MSO5000 is 350Mhz design without 50Ω inputs. It has 2 Ch AWG, 4 decodes. Higher noise and lower sensitivity. It is good for general purpose work, not ideal for fine analog work. For Arduino kind of work decent choice.

Both Siglent and Rigol 1000HD platforms are low BW, up to 200 MHz, so same as SDS1104X-E. They would be very good for fine analog work, but with BW limit.

So as @coppice already said, Siglent SDS2104X Plus is best compromise of all listed, with limited other info...
Even very expensive scopes will never be perfect for "everything". They all specialize something: BW, noise, math, screen size, decoding...That is why people end up with many scopes...

[Fungus]

but why do I want to buy the Rigol MSO5074 if it doesn't work for me later. The question is whether the Siglent SDS2104X PLUS will suffice, or better the Siglent SDS1000X HD or the Rigol HDO1000X HD.
Can someone who has these oscilloscopes advise me?

No, because if you don't know what you need then nobody does.

The only answer to that question is to buy the most expensive one and cross your fingers.

[markus_jlrb]

Dears,

beside all the pro and contra of the mentioned DSO's
I have obtained a SDS5034X this days due to the higher
sampling rate (5Gs) and the possibility to upgrade it to
a 750MHz BW. Price was a bargain due to a demo device
but with very less working hours.

I hope that later I will effort a HD version and could compare.

Markus

[uargo]

But what does "better" mean in  this context?
You need to provide more detail of work to be performed to get more targeted advice.
Maybe you don't need a "better" scope at all?
What is a type of work you could not do that prompted you to want a "better" scope. Start with that.


Siglent SDS2104X Plus is a 500 MHz scope platform. Low noise, good for both high BW and small signals. MSO. Very good BODE plot.

Rigol MSO5000 is 350Mhz design without 50Ω inputs. It has 2 Ch AWG, 4 decodes. Higher noise and lower sensitivity. It is good for general purpose work, not ideal for fine analog work. For Arduino kind of work decent choice.

Both Siglent and Rigol 1000HD platforms are low BW, up to 200 MHz, so same as SDS1104X-E. They would be very good for fine analog work, but with BW limit.

So as @coppice already said, Siglent SDS2104X Plus is best compromise of all listed, with limited other info...
Even very expensive scopes will never be perfect for "everything". They all specialize something: BW, noise, math, screen size, decoding...That is why people end up with many scopes...

I am designing an antenna rotor controller and I need to reduce the noise from the power supply and the reference voltage for the ADC readings. I need a fairly accurate oscilloscope to see the noise at 600uV or less

[uargo]

but why do I want to buy the Rigol MSO5074 if it doesn't work for me later. The question is whether the Siglent SDS2104X PLUS will suffice, or better the Siglent SDS1000X HD or the Rigol HDO1000X HD.
Can someone who has these oscilloscopes advise me?

No, because if you don't know what you need then nobody does.

The only answer to that question is to buy the most expensive one and cross your fingers.

I am designing an antenna rotor controller and I need to reduce the noise from the power supply and the reference voltage for the ADC readings. I need a fairly accurate oscilloscope to see the noise at 600uV or less

[BillyO]

I first got the SDS1104X-E then bought the SDS2104X-P for improved bandwidth.

I still have both.  I have used the 10 bit mode on the SDS2104X-P and it does work well, but as mentioned limits the BW to 100MHz.

Maybe if you have more specific questions about the scope we could continue to answer them instead of just asking for a general opinion.  We all use our equipment differently because will all do different things so our "general opinion" will be heavily colored by our own specific needs and may be meaningless to you, or worse, cause you to make a bad decision.

I will make one comment with regards to sensitivity.  The SDS2104x-P's enhanced sensitivity is very nice to have, but it requires that you have a very "quiet" lab environment EMI wise.

[Fungus]

I am designing an antenna rotor controller and I need to reduce the noise from the power supply and the reference voltage for the ADC readings. I need a fairly accurate oscilloscope to see the noise at 600uV or less

OK, so the Rigol MSO5074 can be eliminated, you're looking at one of the 10-bit or 12-bit 'scopes for that.

The Rigol HDO is the cheapest and is also the newest tech with really fast/modern user interface.



(nb. DHO1000 has identical functions...)

[nctnico]

I am designing an antenna rotor controller and I need to reduce the noise from the power supply and the reference voltage for the ADC readings. I need a fairly accurate oscilloscope to see the noise at 600uV or less

An oscilloscope is the wrong tool for that. You'll need a true RMS DMM with a high enough bandwidth if you want to go cheap. Otherwise you'll need some kind of pre-amplifier to visualise noise that low using an oscilloscope. Probing will also be challenging.

[uargo]

I first got the SDS1104X-E then bought the SDS2104X-P for improved bandwidth.

I still have both.  I have used the 10 bit mode on the SDS2104X-P and it does work well, but as mentioned limits the BW to 100MHz.

Maybe if you have more specific questions about the scope we could continue to answer them instead of just asking for a general opinion.  We all use our equipment differently because will all do different things so our "general opinion" will be heavily colored by our own specific needs and may be meaningless to you, or worse, cause you to make a bad decision.

I will make one comment with regards to sensitivity.  The SDS2104x-P's enhanced sensitivity is very nice to have, but it requires that you have a very "quiet" lab environment EMI wise.

thanks I wanted to know how the 10 bit mode of the sds2104x plus works

[uargo]

I am designing an antenna rotor controller and I need to reduce the noise from the power supply and the reference voltage for the ADC readings. I need a fairly accurate oscilloscope to see the noise at 600uV or less

OK, so the Rigol MSO5074 can be eliminated, you're looking at one of the 10-bit or 12-bit 'scopes for that.

The Rigol HDO is the cheapest and is also the newest tech with really fast/modern user interface.



(nb. DHO1000 has identical functions...)

thanks I'll look at the rigol too but they say they still have many bugs

[uargo]

I am designing an antenna rotor controller and I need to reduce the noise from the power supply and the reference voltage for the ADC readings. I need a fairly accurate oscilloscope to see the noise at 600uV or less

An oscilloscope is the wrong tool for that. You'll need a true RMS DMM with a high enough bandwidth if you want to go cheap. Otherwise you'll need some kind of pre-amplifier to visualise noise that low using an oscilloscope. Probing will also be challenging.

thanks for that I bought a SDM3045X It will arrive on Friday