Buying Keysight 34461A 6.5 Digit Bench DMM - Opinions?

[Majorassburn]

This MAY be my next DMM purchase based upon your opinions, advice & experiences.
I'm open to alternatives in the "under $2,000" price range.
I eliminated the Fluke 8808A because of its limited functions (no capacitance, etc.).
Your input is much appreciated. TIA.

[Demon Xanth]

The Keithly DMM6500 is a very comparable model.

[Antonio90]

Its either the Keysight or the Keithley DMM6500. I don't think there is any real competition at that price point, unless you want to go lower in price and quality or higher in both.

[Lstkartagi]

The 34465A seems to be going for around $1,860 before tax, so if $2k is the range, I would consider a 65A.  The DMM6500s are good, exceptional on the 10V scale and 4 wire ohms, however IMHO a far less user friendly interface.  Probably just depends in part on what you get used to or personal preferences in GUIs.  Does TEquipment still give an EEVBLOG discount?  Probably worth asking them anyway.

[Antonio90]

Well, if you can get the 34465A under 2k it's a really strong contender too. Here in Europe is €1990 before tax, which is already over $2000. I't an overall improvement in every aspect of the 34461A which I have, and it's excellent. I'd like to get the DMM6500, but haven't been able to find it used for under €500 yet 

[Hydron]

Definitely consider the Keithley unless there is a strong reason not to go for it (e.g. you simply must have the extra buttons of the Keysight). When I got mine it was actually (significantly) cheaper in the UK than a 34461A let alone a 65A and the extra features it has are important to me, so it was a no-brainer. That's back in early 2021 though, prices have gone up substantially since.

I also picked up a nice 34401A since though, and certainly enjoy having both available

@Antonio90 If you find a decent one used for <500EUR then I'd buy a lottery ticket at the same time Mine was ~850EUR + VAT for an ex-demo unit (full warranty and support, cosmetically almost perfect), but they're WAY more than that now

[Antonio90]

Definitely consider the Keithley unless there is a strong reason not to go for it (e.g. you simply must have the extra buttons of the Keysight). When I got mine it was actually (significantly) cheaper in the UK than a 34461A let alone a 65A and the extra features it has are important to me, so it was a no-brainer. That's back in early 2021 though, prices have gone up substantially since.

I also picked up a nice 34401A since though, and certainly enjoy having both available

@Antonio90 If you find a decent one used for <500EUR then I'd buy a lottery ticket at the same time Mine was ~850EUR + VAT for an ex-demo unit (full warranty and support, cosmetically almost perfect), but they're WAY more than that now

Yeah, not happening  . 850EUR +VAT is a bargain anyway, now it is around twice. I got my 34461A for 500EUR, but it was used, from a lab, and the light coloured version, so quite a bit older than yours I'd wager.
I would certainly buy the DMM6500 If I had the choice between the two of them new. Probably even over the 34465A at the same price.

[slugrustle]

Keysight won't deal with you (e.g., if you need warranty repair) unless you are a business.  See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-officially-lost-the-plot-dont-buy-if-youre-a-hobbyist/.  That's something to consider if you're buying this for personal / hobby use.

[J-R]

34461A vs. DMM6500 is a bit of a conversation and it's been covered in other threads.  They are quite different and even a single aspect might direct someone one way or the other.

In the US, Keysight doesn't actually require any documentation on whether you are a business or not.  I just made up a three letter acronym and they simply don't care.

At the moment, the 34465A is the better choice over the 34461A, as Keysight is having a promotion where you can get some free stuff after purchase: https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/3123-1921/flyers/Choose-Your-Reward-Promotion.pdf

[slugrustle]

In the US, Keysight doesn't actually require any documentation on whether you are a business or not.  I just made up a three letter acronym and they simply don't care.

Was this only for the initial purchase, or did you receive actual services such as warranty repair by this method?

[NoisyBoy]

Both the 34461A and 34465A are rock steady since I got them three years ago.  So no regret on either meter and I highly recommend them.

I presume you are buying a 6.5 digit meter for precision and accuracy, my suggestion is to set aside some funds for occasional calibration. 

I considered buying the 6500, but since my gears are almost all Keysight/Agilent in the lab and I know their sales and support team well, I decide not to get the 6500 as a one off.  But I will have no reservation with it as long as touch-based interface is OK with you. 

[J-R]

In the US, Keysight doesn't actually require any documentation on whether you are a business or not.  I just made up a three letter acronym and they simply don't care.

Was this only for the initial purchase, or did you receive actual services such as warranty repair by this method?

Extended warranty purchases and repair as well.  I sent in a U1461A with a bad screen and they sent a replacement unit.  In none of my dealings did they ask for any proof of a real business.

[nctnico]

34461A vs. DMM6500 is a bit of a conversation and it's been covered in other threads.  They are quite different and even a single aspect might direct someone one way or the other.

I second this. The DMM6500 has more ranges though. I have a 34461A myself but one thing I don't like is that the lowest Ohm range is 100 Ohm. I wish the DMM6500 existed when I needed a 6.5 digit dmm.

[Majorassburn]

Thanks for all the valuable info.
After studying specs and reviewing your comments, I'm leaning heavily toward the Keysight 34461A because:
1) 34661A's immediately available from the factory (Don't want to buy through distribution/dealers) unless I'm missing something here. 2 day delivery. I hate to wait! DMM6500 quoted 33 weeks!
2) The specs for the functions I use most are adequate to very good (Low Frequency AC, DC Voltage, Resistance, Diode, Continuity, Capacitance).
3) I like the tighter specs on the DMM6500 and the Lo-OHMS range but I don't like touch screen interface on anything.
4) The 34465A is nicer but I can't justify the extra $400 for what I intend to use it for.
The only spec I don't like is the AC-coupled TRMS. I like a switchable choice, AC or AC+DC.
I'll keep studying and I'll keep an open mind to any additional comments.
Thanks so much for all your input so far, especially on the promo program. 

[coromonadalix]

with the failing spear mcus in theses,  i would avoid them   personally speaking

not sure if the 65  has the same problems

[J-R]

Get the 34465A and get a free U1733C!  Pays for itself!

[Caliaxy]

Not sure if relevant to you, but be aware that 34661A doesn’t take thermocouples of any kind.

[J-R]

34465A also can measure up to 1G Ohm and adds a 1uA DC current range.  There are some other memory and speed differences.  Worth the extra money unless you just don't have it.

[Kleinstein]

Not sure if relevant to you, but be aware that 34661A doesn’t take thermocouples of any kind.

With most DMMs the use of thermocoules is limited, as the connector and cold junction temperature compensation don't work well. So don't expect much accuracy.
An exception is the Keithley 2110, with a proper TC connector.

[Hexley]

After using a 34465A for a year or two, I added a 6500 because I needed the expansion card capability for a certain project.
The 6500 is nice for some specialty tasks, particularly data acquisition; but I found that the UI of the 6500 did not suit my operating habits.
So for day-to-day use, I reach for the Keysight.
YMMV.

[J-R]

The 34465A is a no-brainer compared to the 34461A with the promotion and those features like the thermocouple support and extra current and resistance ranges.  From a price perspective, the 2M memory upgrade is worth about $300 and would add some value to the instrument, and the U1733C retails for about $550 and can be sold on eBay for $400 or more if necessary.  Either are good options depending on your needs.

[tszaboo]

We have both in the office. The 34461A is a good meter. If you can afford an update to the 34465A, you are golden.
The DMM6500 is OK, but it has some issues that gets on my nerves every time I want to do more than measure a value. No cold junction compensation for thermocouple. The battery dies in like 2 years, you have to take it apart a lot to replace it. The buffering somehow makes an excel starting the middle of the buffer. Sampling settings are unintuitive.
The only two things going for the DMM6500 IMHO are the high speed sampling, and the optional scanner card. If you don't need those, I would get the 34461A. Even though there was 1 out of 4 or 5 that died on me, it was replaced in warranty.

[Caliaxy]

Not sure if relevant to you, but be aware that 34661A doesn’t take thermocouples of any kind.

With most DMMs the use of thermocoules is limited, as the connector and cold junction temperature compensation don't work well. So don't expect much accuracy.
An exception is the Keithley 2110, with a proper TC connector.

Spot on, educational as always!

I only wanted to point out that 34661A can't read thermocouples, whereas both DM6500 and 34665A (34661A's bigger brother) can.

Why would one use a 6.5 DMM (with a dc voltage accuracy in the vicinity of 30 ppm) with a thermocouple of 1-3% accuracy? Not necessarily for accuracy per se (or lack of it...), but also for the excellent graphics/logging capabilities with real time trend display of many modern bench DMMs.

I am lucky enough to have both 34661A and DMM6500 on my bench. The night I took the picture below I was trying to optimize the cooling of a device I was putting together (the heat came form high-power blue LEDs running in different sequences). I could not find in my drawers any thermistor or temperture sensor my 34661A could read. Luckily, I had a bunch of K-type thermocouples that worked just fine with my DMM6500 (the one particularly used here came with one of my Flukes). Job done.

Might be relevant to some.

[Kleinstein]

It can absolutely make sense to use a 6 digit DMM with a thermocouple. The absolute accuracy of the TCs is limited, but the reproducibilty can still be good. All it needs is an external cold junction compensation and than some math (the DMM6500 should be able to do the math as a user programmable function).  One does not really need 6 digits, but may want 1 µV or better resolution for the voltage and this is usually found with 6 digit meters and few 5 digit ones.  There are few dedicated thermometers with comparable resolution and they may cost as much as a 6 digit DMM.

The scanner cards for the DMM6500 may include a cold junction sensor.

[mawyatt]

We have 3 KS34465s and a DMM6500. The DMM6500 was acquired when a KS34465 was backordered a year and we forgot to cancel the order when we found a DMM6500 in stock as a replacement (this was our first Keithley Instrument). When the KS arrived a year later we decided to go ahead and keep it since the price had really jumped up!!

Now that we have both types the DMM6500 lower ohms range is highly appreciated, both types are really good instruments and one can't go wrong with either!!

Best,