Author Topic: CAN-FD Decoding  (Read 2137 times)

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Offline diilettanteTopic starter

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CAN-FD Decoding
« on: October 30, 2022, 11:08:33 pm »
I am going to have to work on a project with CAN-FD-SIC, so I thought I'd ask here: which is the cheapest oscilloscope that can be "persuaded" to decode CAN-FD?
 

Offline ADT123

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Re: CAN-FD Decoding
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2022, 05:46:47 am »
All PicoScope USB scopes can decode CAN & also CAN FD see https://www.picotech.com/library/oscilloscopes/can-bus-serial-protocol-decoding.  SIC (Signal Improvement Capability) helps improve the reliability by reducing signal ringing but has no impact on decoding so you only need to choose a scope with CAN FD decoding. 

Best to ensure you choose a scope with several MB of memory in order to allow decoding of long captures of data.  I would go for at least the PicoScope 2206B from this table https://www.picotech.com/products/oscilloscope-specifications

Disclaimer: I have worked for Pico Technology for over 30 years and designed some of their early oscilloscopes. 

We are always recruiting talented hardware and software engineers! Happy to answer Pico related questions when time permits but here as electronics is a hobby
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: CAN-FD Decoding
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2022, 06:11:27 am »
There are many scopes that can decode CAN-FD, the cheapest Picoscope can.
However, once you don't have signalling issues you have to put the scope away and grab a protocol analyzer (from kvaser,peak,vector, ...)
yes they cost more money than the scope but are the required tool for the job, because things happen at a higher level than what an oscilloscope can show you. With the bus analyzer you only see the content of the bus, with the tools you can decode frames on the fly, plot graphs, generate frames to simulate nodes.
 

Offline diilettanteTopic starter

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Re: CAN-FD Decoding
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2022, 10:24:41 pm »
It is a new project, moving from FlexRay and CAN to CAN-FD-SIC, CAN-FD and CAN. First prototype hardware arriving soon, a number of controllers and intelligent sensors and actuators. First few days and weeks will be when the scope and decoder will come in handy, once the Physical and Data layer are sorted, it's off to Vector and dSPACE tools.

I have a Rigol DS1000Z that I can use for simple analysis at physical level, but I have been thinking of buying a new scope, so might as well have something with the Automotive protocol decoding. PicoScope is not my favourite, as it uses screen real-estate, needs a PC, and I want something separate from the main screen. What is the cheapest bench scope that can be coerced into decoding CAN FD? Cheapest Rigol that mentions CAN FD is MSO8000, unless MSO5000 and MSO7000 can too, but I only found references to standard CAN in their user manuals. Siglent SDS2000X-Plus seems to be able to do it, and it has extra incentives… Anything else that might work?
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: CAN-FD Decoding
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2022, 11:03:46 pm »
It is a new project, moving from FlexRay and CAN to CAN-FD-SIC, CAN-FD and CAN. First prototype hardware arriving soon, a number of controllers and intelligent sensors and actuators. First few days and weeks will be when the scope and decoder will come in handy, once the Physical and Data layer are sorted, it's off to Vector and dSPACE tools.

I have a Rigol DS1000Z that I can use for simple analysis at physical level, but I have been thinking of buying a new scope, so might as well have something with the Automotive protocol decoding. PicoScope is not my favourite, as it uses screen real-estate, needs a PC, and I want something separate from the main screen. What is the cheapest bench scope that can be coerced into decoding CAN FD? Cheapest Rigol that mentions CAN FD is MSO8000, unless MSO5000 and MSO7000 can too, but I only found references to standard CAN in their user manuals. Siglent SDS2000X-Plus seems to be able to do it, and it has extra incentives… Anything else that might work?

As others have said, once you get over the physical layer issues (if any), all but the most expensive scopes are more or less useless, you need to get a proper frame analyzer, the Picoscope is the favorite of the car guys, I knew one that resin glued his PicoScope 3403D on the lid of his Toshiba Tecra Z40-A (and proudly shows me that in his workshop it occupies way less space than a classical scope, also these are pretty sturdy devices, a drop from the bench, or the car engine bay, will not destroy them, do this to a Siglent and see it become dust ;)), also there is a shit load of related software and community around them, from researchers and modders to mechanics.

If, on the other hand, you're mostly lab based and dislike Picos and  want a more classical scope approach, the Siglent + a good frame analyzer is as good as you can get for little money, higher than this and you're entering the Rhodes and Keysights territory and that means $$$$$$$$$$$....

Cheers,
DC1MC
 
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Offline JPortici

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Re: CAN-FD Decoding
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2022, 07:19:52 pm »
Yeah, picoscope is by far the cheapest that can support FD
 

Offline diilettanteTopic starter

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Re: CAN-FD Decoding
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2022, 11:41:28 pm »
I acquired a Siglent SDS2104X Plus on offer, with all the serial decoders thrown in, as well as the MSO option with the heavily discounted probe. It came out cheaper than a PicoScope, and I am very pleased.  I like it better than the Rigol that I have.
 


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