Can someone help me pick a DMM? Fluke 87V, BM789, BM215, UT-61E, etc..

[nick779]

After reading 30+ threads and buying guides on different meters and comparing spreadsheets and datasheets, I'm a bit lost on what direction to take here. I also failed hard with searching this forum and relied on whatever google could guide me to on this forum. I hate to start another one of these threads, but here goes:

My 9 year old Ideal 61-340 is starting to show some issues from abuse over the years and I am looking to replace it with something that will hopefully outlast me.

At the moment I have settled on the Brymen BM786, purchased from Amazon EEVBlog store as they are the only distributor in NA I can find for this meter. My main concern is the complete lack of support for this meter in the USA and 1 year warranty.

I've also been looking at the Fluke line from the 117, 179, and 87V but get lost in the differences between them. I've also considered that I'm looking at way overkill meters for what my needs are and that's ok, but again I don't want to buy a DMM twice because I cheaped out.

I'm hoping someone can help me figure out what is the best for my needs and point me in the right direction. I'm pretty basic, but I want more advanced features to try and a very reliable meter when taken care of.

Primary uses in order of use frequency:

1. DC Voltage 0.001v - 20v
2. DC Current 0.1mA - to 10A
3. Continuity/resistance
4. Temperature (would be nice)
5. AC Mains testing (120V and occasional use)

Features I would like: Backlight, auto range, hold, true RMS, buzzer continuity.

Heart wants the Fluke based on name, but for the price difference between the 87V and the BM786 I could buy a clamp meter and a nice lead kit too.

Budget is up to ~$450

I appreciate anyone willing to read through that and help me out. Sorry for being one of those guys =/

[bdunham7]

At the moment I have settled on the Brymen BM786, purchased from Amazon EEVBlog store as they are the only distributor in NA I can find for this meter. My main concern is the complete lack of support for this meter in the USA and 1 year warranty.

That is one option and not a bad one.  The meter is a lot of bang-per-buck and you support EEVBlog, which is certainly a good cause.  There's been endless discussion of its technical merits, as I'm sure you've seen, and it does in fact seem to do everything pretty well according to others that have it.  There have been some issues discussed, but certainly not anything disqualifying.  However, your 'main concern' is spot on, IMO.  Dave Jones will honor the warranty at the very least, I'm sure, but there is no support, calibration (Brymen does not release their calibration procedures publicly) or service of any kind available, nor is it possible for the end user to update firmware if that becomes an issue.  Of course, firmware is often not updatable in handheld DMMs, but there are examples that are.

I've also been looking at the Fluke line from the 117, 179, and 87V but get lost in the differences between them. I've also considered that I'm looking at way overkill meters for what my needs are and that's ok, but again I don't want to buy a DMM twice because I cheaped out.

OK, so just to answer your questions directly, the 117 only has a 10A range, no lower current ranges, and no temperature range.  If you were working with AC mains projects, I might recommend the 116, which I have, plus a current clamp like the i-400.  However, that doesn't give you any low-current or DC-current ranges.  The 179 is a classic, but only slightly less expensive than the 87V and I wouldn't consider it.  So if you would prefer Fluke and it's within your budget, go for the 87V.  For your stated intended and possible uses it will do just fine.  The support and "lifetime" warranty mean a lot to me and perhaps you as well--meters can and do fail.  If your Brymen fails 5 years from now, you'll get nothing.  If your 87V fails 5 years from now, you'll get a repair and a new calibration certificate--or a new meter.  You won't regret the purchase of an 87V 10 years from now and you will likely be able to resell it for a good portion of what you paid for it if you need or want to in the future. 

It's not really a technical issue--both meters will do everything you need pretty well.  The BM786 may exceed the 87V in some instances, but I think we get a little bogged down in the minute details in some of these debates.  Try to find an 87V owner who bought their meter new and now regrets it for some reason.

Edit:  If you are looking at the $413 sale model on Amazon, the included test leads are just OK, but the unique insulated alligator clips almost make the deal worth it all on their own.  Also, if you aren't in a big hurry, TEquipment offers EEVBlog members a 6% discount and they have the 87V at the same sale price.

[Wolfgang]

I have Brymen and 87V and the 87V is what I use most of the time. It rips a hole in your wallet, but its almost undestructible and has lifelong warranty. So the investment spreads out over many years ...

[kcbrown]

I think it's important to know just how important support from the manufacturer is going to be to you.

I mention this because you can buy Fluke 87 series meters used for a steep discount.  For instance, I'm seeing 87 III meters go for around $160 or so on eBay, for something that's advertised to be fully functional (though I think the meter doesn't do temperature measurements).

Fluke might support it anyway, in the event it dies in an unrecoverable way, despite the fact that you're not the original purchaser and the 87 III has been out of production for quite some time (I'm unable to ascertain exactly when it went out of production).

There are some 87V meters on the used market as well, but they appear to command a minimum of around $250.

So, ultimately, I expect the decision will depend on whether it's just the Fluke build and general capability you're after, or if you also need a guarantee of the company's support.  If the latter, then buying new is the only way to get that.

Note that, strictly speaking, "lifetime" means 7 years after production of the meter ceases, or 10 years after purchase, whichever is longer.  That's what Fluke's warranty stipulates.  In reality, I seem to recall instances of Fluke providing support for their meters long after that point, even to people who weren't the original owners.  If my memory isn't faulty, then that would make purchase of even these older meters worthwhile for your purposes.

[nick779]

That is one option and not a bad one.  The meter is a lot of bang-per-buck and you support EEVBlog, which is certainly a good cause.  There's been endless discussion of its technical merits, as I'm sure you've seen, and it does in fact seem to do everything pretty well according to others that have it.  There have been some issues discussed, but certainly not anything disqualifying.  However, your 'main concern' is spot on, IMO.  Dave Jones will honor the warranty at the very least, I'm sure, but there is no support, calibration (Brymen does not release their calibration procedures publicly) or service of any kind available, nor is it possible for the end user to update firmware if that becomes an issue.  Of course, firmware is often not updatable in handheld DMMs, but there are examples that are.

Technically speaking the specs on the BM786 are more than I need, which is great. I don't know how necessary calibration is as I've never had one done on my DMMs in the past and and my projects typically don't require the utmost precision. I have read a few of the 786 issues, but I believe most were manufacturing defects or bugs that were resolved. 

OK, so just to answer your questions directly, the 117 only has a 10A range, no lower current ranges, and no temperature range.  If you were working with AC mains projects, I might recommend the 116, which I have, plus a current clamp like the i-400.  However, that doesn't give you any low-current or DC-current ranges.  The 179 is a classic, but only slightly less expensive than the 87V and I wouldn't consider it.  So if you would prefer Fluke and it's within your budget, go for the 87V.  For your stated intended and possible uses it will do just fine.  The support and "lifetime" warranty mean a lot to me and perhaps you as well--meters can and do fail.  If your Brymen fails 5 years from now, you'll get nothing.  If your 87V fails 5 years from now, you'll get a repair and a new calibration certificate--or a new meter.  You won't regret the purchase of an 87V 10 years from now and you will likely be able to resell it for a good portion of what you paid for it if you need or want to in the future. 

It's not really a technical issue--both meters will do everything you need pretty well.  The BM786 may exceed the 87V in some instances, but I think we get a little bogged down in the minute details in some of these debates.  Try to find an 87V owner who bought their meter new and now regrets it for some reason.

Edit:  If you are looking at the $413 sale model on Amazon, the included test leads are just OK, but the unique insulated alligator clips almost make the deal worth it all on their own.  Also, if you aren't in a big hurry, TEquipment offers EEVBlog members a 6% discount and they have the 87V at the same sale price.

I did somewhat factor in the cost of 8000 series probemaster leads for the 87V.

I think at this point based on my low voltage/current needs it's really between the 87V, BM786, and perhaps a few of the recommended ~$65-130 models (AN870 or 37XR or similar). That's a huge spread to look at but I guess I'll just have to deep dive into them to see what is adequate or if spending the money on the Fluke is worth it. It's a strange spot to be in considering the cheaper models are easily replicable as designs improve for the cost of the 87V. Granted the 87V might last 30+ years. Decision paralysis has always been something that I suffered from.

I have Brymen and 87V and the 87V is what I use most of the time. It rips a hole in your wallet, but its almost undestructible and has lifelong warranty. So the investment spreads out over many years ...

I work 99% with DC voltage. How annoying is needing to switch from AC at every power on?

I think it's important to know just how important support from the manufacturer is going to be to you.

I mention this because you can buy Fluke 87 series meters used for a steep discount.  For instance, I'm seeing 87 III meters go for around $160 or so on eBay, for something that's advertised to be fully functional (though I think the meter doesn't do temperature measurements).

Fluke might support it anyway, in the event it dies in an unrecoverable way, despite the fact that you're not the original purchaser and the 87 III has been out of production for quite some time (I'm unable to ascertain exactly when it went out of production).

There are some 87V meters on the used market as well, but they appear to command a minimum of around $250.

So, ultimately, I expect the decision will depend on whether it's just the Fluke build and general capability you're after, or if you also need a guarantee of the company's support.  If the latter, then buying new is the only way to get that.

Note that, strictly speaking, "lifetime" means 7 years after production of the meter ceases, or 10 years after purchase, whichever is longer.  That's what Fluke's warranty stipulates.  In reality, I seem to recall instances of Fluke providing support for their meters long after that point, even to people who weren't the original owners.  If my memory isn't faulty, then that would make purchase of even these older meters worthwhile for your purposes.

I'm not normally opposed to used, but I've seen a few threads on counterfeit meters over the last few days. Not sure how widespread that is. That said, I would probably buy new from an authorized distributor.


Overall though I suppose that's the chance I take. $475 for an 87V and leads for at the very least 10 guaranteed years from Fluke OR 2-4 meters over the years that could outlive the Fluke, but with no support.

[bdunham7]

I did somewhat factor in the cost of 8000 series probemaster leads for the 87V.

Granted the 87V might last 30+ years. Decision paralysis has always been something that I suffered from.

I work 99% with DC voltage. How annoying is needing to switch from AC at every power on?

I'm not normally opposed to used,

+1 for Probemaster

Many earlier 87 series meters have lasted 30 years, and unlike almost all competitors, a complete manual with schematics is available for it if it needs a repair long in the future.  Longevity was something you specifically mentioned, it may not be as important to others.

You don't need to switch from AC to measure DC voltage, it is only the current ranges that are initially AC, it takes a button press to change it.  The mechanical switch positions are different for AC and D voltage, but are shared for current.

I'm not opposed to used either, but very questionable stuff is bringing top dollar these days. 

[kcbrown]

I'm not opposed to used either, but very questionable stuff is bringing top dollar these days.

That is certainly true.  You have to look very carefully at what you're getting.

I suppose it's possible there are counterfeit 87 III meters out there.  Can't say.  I would expect to see a lot more of them if they were counterfeit, though.

No, to me, the biggest risk of buying used is that the meter doesn't perform properly, i.e. is either misrepresented or something that is presumed to be working actually isn't.  That's always a risk in the used market regardless.  But as you say, these meters have schematics available so save for a fault in a custom chip (and perhaps even in that case), the meter should be repairable as long as you can get replacement parts.

[bdunham7]

I suppose it's possible there are counterfeit 87 III meters out there.  Can't say.  I would expect to see a lot more of them if they were counterfeit, though.

There aren't counterfeits out there because it is/was manufactured in the US.  Now whether those imported 'grey market' 17B+ models are genuine or not, I don't know.

[J-R]

FYI, the BM786 from Dave's store is $170US delivered, vs. $185 from Amazon.   Get the fuse pack too.

Buying used is a great option.  For ebay: reputable seller, carefully look at the description and photos, check the seller's other listings and past sales, ask questions.  If you avoid used on ebay you'll really be missing out.
Sometimes good deals can be found at the Amazon Warehouse.

Have you considered the BM829s?  Very large digits, dual display, dual temperature, auto-check mode, IR-USB option.

The 121GW is also worth looking at.  It has a lot of great features.  Dave is sold out, but Welectron has them in stock.  (They are a good place for Brymen as well.  Get the BM27s too while you're there!)  Biggest negative is speed, unfortunately.


My personal opinion is that in 2021 an electronics hobbyist should not be buying their primary DMM without a communications option.  So that means no to the BM78x and the Fluke 87V/88V.  But yes to Fluke 287/289, Keysight U1282 (+ many others), or a bench meter (lots of new/used options).  But if that is not the use case then almost everything is on the table.

[rsjsouza]

My US$0.02:

I have a 87V and had a 179 - both are really excellent meters.

Nowadays it is not really difficult to surpass the 87V in features. Since you don't seem to really need the safety, the Fluke is overpriced for this parameter alone. However, its build quality and ease of use are great highlights - not to mention the track record of many decades of completely rotten meters in the used market that are still spot on w.r.t. measurements. A similar story goes for the 179, although it loses a few points to the 87V as it does not have a few other features such as relative and mA and it has 1kHz bandwidth (the 87V is 20kHz, which is good enough for measurements across the audio spectrum). The 87V defaults to AC current measurements. Not a huge deal in my opinion, but others will say the entire meter becomes useless simply due to this. YMMV.

I have also a Brymen, although a different one (BM857). It is an excellent meter, fully featured (a bit less featured than your candidate BM786) but it has more bandwidth (20kHz) and misses on the autohold (I love this on the Flukes and Keysights, although the BM786 has it as well). I can tell that Brymen has a superb customer service (I haven't had the need to use Fluke's) but the build quality, at least for the BM857, is two notches under the Flukes.

A third brand you might consider is Keysight: their U1272A/1273A are my favourite meters (I have a U1273A, as well as a U1282A) and fully featured - nothing really is missing: autohold, frequency, DC+AC, Low Z, one of the best datalogging features, etc. Build quality is a notch under the Fluke, although better than the Brymen that I have.

From the cheaper alternatives, both the AN870 (I have its Richmeters counterpart RM219) and the UT61E (non plus) are excellent. Both are fully featured but the Aneng loses the bargraph and has a worse display. The UT61E is more responsive, has a good bargraph and excellent capacitance meter but does not have backlight and NCV (if that matters to you).

Overall, the choices are plentiful. Good luck in your quest!

[Fungus]

At the moment I have settled on the Brymen BM786, purchased from Amazon EEVBlog store as they are the only distributor in NA I can find for this meter. My main concern is the complete lack of support for this meter in the USA and 1 year warranty.

I wouldn't obsess over the Fluke warranty.

Do the math: You have an incredibly small chance of it going wrong after the first year (one in a thousand?) and having to replace it vs. a 100% certain chance of paying twice the price for a Fluke.

Leave the Fluke 87V for the corporations and government contractors. All the lesser Flukes have missing features, this is deliberate by Fluke.

Heart wants the Fluke based on name, but for the price difference between the 87V and the BM786 I could buy a clamp meter and a nice lead kit too.

Yes, that's the correct way to think. You can have a good meter plus a nice soldering iron and a clamp for the same money..

Right now in the USA I'd get either the BM786 or the Amprobe AM-160-A which is a Brymen BM859 in disguise - a very capable meter. FWIW Amprobe is Fluke's sister company and Fluke/Amprobe both operate in the exact same building.

https://www.amprobe.com/product/am-160-a/

The Amprobe is simpler functionality and works more like a Fluke 87V than the BM786. The BM786 will have more users on EEVBLOG to talk with.

Either way you won't be missing out on anything compared to owning a Fluke except for the color.

[nick779]

I really do appreciate the advice everyone! I think for now I'm going to stick with the BM786 and look for a pocket meter like the BM27s, a clamp meter, and probably get a modular lead kit since I've only ever had typical factory junk leads.

[bdunham7]

probably get a modular lead kit since I've only ever had typical factory junk leads.

The leads that come with the BM786 are supposedly pretty good and if I'm not mistaken, compatible with Probemaster 8000 series accessories.

[Fungus]

probably get a modular lead kit since I've only ever had typical factory junk leads.

The leads that come with the BM786 are supposedly pretty good and if I'm not mistaken, compatible with Probemaster 8000 series accessories.

I don't know which leads come as standard but I don't think it comes with crocodile clips.

Multimeter leads don't need to cost a fortune though. You can get some pretty good ones for a few $$$ on Aliexpress and official gold plated Brymens with crocodile clips and banana adapters can be had for under $20. I included a set of these when I got my BM857.

https://brymen.eu/shop/silicone-test-leads-bl21s2-t4sc-brymen/

https://brymen.eu/shop/bac3/

[nctnico]

After reading 30+ threads and buying guides on different meters and comparing spreadsheets and datasheets, I'm a bit lost on what direction to take here. I also failed hard with searching this forum and relied on whatever google could guide me to on this forum. I hate to start another one of these threads, but here goes:

My 9 year old Ideal 61-340 is starting to show some issues from abuse over the years and I am looking to replace it with something that will hopefully outlast me.

At the moment I have settled on the Brymen BM786, purchased from Amazon EEVBlog store as they are the only distributor in NA I can find for this meter. My main concern is the complete lack of support for this meter in the USA and 1 year warranty.

I've also been looking at the Fluke line from the 117, 179, and 87V but get lost in the differences between them. I've also considered that I'm looking at way overkill meters for what my needs are and that's ok, but again I don't want to buy a DMM twice because I cheaped out.

I'm hoping someone can help me figure out what is the best for my needs and point me in the right direction. I'm pretty basic, but I want more advanced features to try and a very reliable meter when taken care of.

Primary uses in order of use frequency:

1. DC Voltage 0.001v - 20v
2. DC Current 0.1mA - to 10A
3. Continuity/resistance
4. Temperature (would be nice)
5. AC Mains testing (120V and occasional use)

Features I would like: Backlight, auto range, hold, true RMS, buzzer continuity.

Look at the DMMs from Keysight as well. Last time I looked for a handheld DMM I ended up with the U1241B from Keysight. Primary reason for choosing an A-brand is that I want to be able to use it on mains without being concerned for my safety.

[geggi1]

You should get a multimeter that fits your requirements.
For hobby use that only require normal accuracy you will get plenty of bang for the $ by looking at instruments from UNI-T https://www.uni-trend.com/meters/html/product/General_Meters/DigitalMultimeters/
You budget will probably give you more toys than only  multimeter.
In your post you say that you would like to measure current with your meter. If measuring from a power supply AC or DC without any kind of current limitation its very simple to damage the meter. The best way to measure current is with a clamp meter or a current-clamp for your multimeter.

If you are using your meter professional you better get one form one of the well known brands like BK, Fluke, Keysight and so on. The reason for this is that you will need a calibration certificate to do traceable measurements.

[Fungus]

Look at the DMMs from Keysight as well. Last time I looked for a handheld DMM I ended up with the U1241B from Keysight. Primary reason for choosing an A-brand is that I want to be able to use it on mains without being concerned for my safety.

The BM789 has the exact same safety certifications as your U1241B (ie. CAT III 1000V / CAT IV 600V).

[tooki]

Just don’t be tempted by the Keysight U1250 series: it’s got maddeningly slow continuity and a few other oddities. The U1240, U1270, and U1280 series are newer and don’t have those issues.

[bdunham7]

The BM789 has the exact same safety certifications as your U1241B (ie. CAT III 1000V / CAT IV 600V).

Look at the handheld meter robustness thread, the discussion about the UNI-T UT125C.  It has the same  CATIII/600V ratings as my Fluke 116, apparently all blessed by UL.  It even has 3 MOVs, 2 PTCs, a TVS diode and apparently, a questionable spark gap.  Do you really think they are equivalent in regards to safety and the jqs 'robustness' factor? 

This is not a criticism of Brymen, but rather of your apparent insistence that the CAT rating label is the only valid indicia of quality in this regard. 

[nctnico]

Look at the DMMs from Keysight as well. Last time I looked for a handheld DMM I ended up with the U1241B from Keysight. Primary reason for choosing an A-brand is that I want to be able to use it on mains without being concerned for my safety.

The BM789 has the exact same safety certifications as your U1241B (ie. CAT III 1000V / CAT IV 600V).

Yeah, but where does my wife send the lawyers to in case the Brymen blows up in my face? Keysight has deep pockets (same goes for Fluke).

[Shock]

Fluke 87V and Fluke 189 are my main meters. If I didn't have them the Brymen BM869s would likely be my number one choice. Haven't looked hard at the Brymen BM786, would consider if superior robustness, specs and features.

[Fungus]

Fluke 87V and Fluke 189 are my main meters. If I didn't have them the Brymen BM869s would likely be my number one choice. Haven't looked hard at the Brymen BM786, would consider if superior robustness, specs and features.

It's much lower down the Brymen line than the 869s - no dual display, no 500,000 count mode or anything like that.

It's a solid meter though, plenty of functions and the price is right.

[Fungus]

Look at the handheld meter robustness thread, the discussion about the UNI-T UT125C.  It has the same  CATIII/600V ratings as my Fluke 116, apparently all blessed by UL.  It even has 3 MOVs, 2 PTCs, a TVS diode and apparently, a questionable spark gap.  Do you really think they are equivalent in regards to safety and the jqs 'robustness' factor?

No, but we're talking about Brymen, not Uni-T.

PS: CAT ratings don't say anything about the meter surviving, only the user. It's pretty obvious by now that Uni-Ts die at the drop of a hat but are they unsafe for the users? I wouldn't know, I've never seen a Uni-T tested for that.

[bdunham7]

No, but we're talking about Brymen, not Uni-T.

I was specifically talking about using CAT ratings and labels in general as the basis for comparison. 

PS: CAT ratings don't say anything about the meter surviving, only the user.

I'm pretty sure that isn't exactly true. 

[Shock]

https://content.fluke.com/promotions/promo-dmm/0518-dmm-campaign/dmm/fluke_dmm-chfr/files/safetyguidelines.pdf

"Within a category, a higher voltage rating denotes a higher transient withstand rating"