EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: VBlack on March 08, 2017, 10:28:34 am
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Hello everybody,
I'm looking for 200-300 Mhz scope with 4 channel, 8-16 channel logic and CAN/LIN/I2C/SPI analyzer and rich triggering options.
Budget $2000-$2600.
Looking through forum and reviews I could find one suitable option: Siglent SDS2304X with logic and bus analyzer options (with current discounts it is fit to budget)
I am not using 4 channels all the time, but from time to time it is more convenient to use 3-4. So, if there much better scope with 2 channel - it also could be an option. I am not using FFT feature, so I'm don't care about its implementation.
Many scopes looks good from advertisements, but I'm mostly interested in real life usage. As I could see from reviews - SDS2000X series fixed a lot of issues of SDS2000 series, so now it look OK from my point of view.
Really appreciate for good options to choose from.
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Second hand or ex-demo/return Keysight MSOX3024A or MSOX3034A with the right option(s)*?
Second hand or ex-demo/return Tek MDO3000 with the right option(s)*?
*options, including bandwidth, can be liberated in many cases.
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Second the keysight. it also has richer automotive options
look on ebay, you'll surely find some scopemonth winners that don't need their scope.
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Look at GW Instek's new MSO2000. I'm sure it can do exactly what you want and fits your budget nicely. I have a GDS-2204E and it works well. From the looks of it the MSO2000 seems to be a GDS2000E series with logic inputs so it is not a completely new oscilloscope (the logic inputs are disabled in the GDS2204E so it seems the MSO2000 and GDS2000E use the same firmware).
The big advantages of the GW Instek MSO2000 over Keysight's current offerings are:
- The MSO2000 is easier to use due to the buttons at the bottom and side of the screen. The UI just works better.
- The MSO2000 has much deeper memory. In Keysight scopes the memory is shared between blocks of 2 channels and 8 digital inputs and it has double buffering which eats half the memory. In a scenario with 4 channels on you are left with 500kpts per channel on the '4Mpts' Keysight versus 10Mpts per channel on the MSO2000. The short memory will haunt you if you need to capture long traces or many segments to debug an illusive problem in a protocol.
- The MSO2000 has features like input filtering, free math equations, saving to a network share, slightly better protocol triggering when it comes to triggering on data inside a packet, moveable/scalable reference traces which can be used for input in math equations.
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Also look at used Agilent MSO6/7000 series. All options are easily enabled on these. Definitely has CAN, can't remember if it does LIN
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Thank you for suggestions. MSOX3024A is nice, but looks out of budget (found used on ebay for $4k), MDO3032 also (about $3k)
Used MSO6/7000 looks also starting from $3k
GW MSO-2204EA looks promising, however Siglent SDS2304X has twice RT sample rate (2GSa/s), Record length up to 140 Mpts/CH, waveform capture rate 500,000.
Is Siglent SDS2000x series that bad? Still they has buggy firmware?
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Thank you for suggestions. MSOX3024A is nice, but looks out of budget
look for the MSO3014A... same hardware, different key, some 100USD cheaper.
Or buy the 3014A without digital inputs and build them by your own - or buy them later.
Michael
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Thank you for suggestions. MSOX3024A is nice, but looks out of budget (found used on ebay for $4k), MDO3032 also (about $3k)
Used MSO6/7000 looks also starting from $3k
GW MSO-2204EA looks promising, however Siglent SDS2304X has twice RT sample rate (2GSa/s), Record length up to 140 Mpts/CH, waveform capture rate 500,000.
Is Siglent SDS2000x series that bad? Still they has buggy firmware?
I think you summed up about the only things which look better on paper for the SDS2000X. Decoding is limited to 1Mpts and it decodes only what is on screen which is useless. If you want to avoid pulling your hair out avoid scopes which only decode what is on screen. Once the beginning of a message is off-screen the decoding dissapears so you can't really look at things like timing problems, acknowledge bits, etc in SPI, I2C or CAN packets while seeing what is what from the decoding. I have bought a Siglent SDS2204 when it was introduced but I ended up selling it for scrap little over a year later because it was useless for anything serious. Siglent never got the firmware right and they didn't want to take it back either. Judging from the SDS2000(X) related threads on this forum the most recent SDS2000(X) firmware is still riddled with bugs. The Agilent MSO6/7000 series are really nice scopes but they are noisy (signals, not the fan) and not so easy to use like the GDS2000E series. In the end I'm using my GDS2204E all the time and I only used my DSO7104A for high frequency stuff so I sold my DSO7104A and got a (cheaper) 1GHz scope more geared towards signal analysis.
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Wait, it was my undertanding that the SDS decode on memory, not screen buffer. Then, the acquisition just fits the screen at selected timebase/frequency... but it doesn't decode based on screen buffer (a la rigol 1000 / keysight)
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Once the beginning of a message is off-screen the decoding dissapears s
Also your GoodWill do not decode anything what is out of captured memory. but this you forget to tell. :-DD
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Thank you for suggestions. MSOX3024A is nice, but looks out of budget (found used on ebay for $4k), MDO3032 also (about $3k)
Used MSO6/7000 looks also starting from $3k
GW MSO-2204EA looks promising, however Siglent SDS2304X has twice RT sample rate (2GSa/s), Record length up to 140 Mpts/CH, waveform capture rate 500,000.
Is Siglent SDS2000x series that bad? Still they has buggy firmware?
Welcome to the forum.
2kX scopes are just fine and those that think they know better are talking out of there aholes.
Any screen shots you'd like to see just ask.
Edit
There's also the SDS1000X+ series that has a similar UI and AWG std and 16ch MSO as well.
These like the 2000X have an Ext Trig input if that can assist as a defacto 3rd channel.
However the LA HW is of the older type used in SDS2000 (not X) and not as nice as what's now supplied with the 2000X series.
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Wait, it was my undertanding that the SDS decode on memory, not screen buffer. Then, the acquisition just fits the screen at selected timebase/frequency... but it doesn't decode based on screen buffer (a la rigol / keysight)
I really don't want to turn this into yet another battle or pissing contest but as can be seen here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-scopes-serial-decoding/msg1000435/#msg1000435) the Rigol DS4000 decodes from capture memory and as can be seen here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg994663/#msg994663) so does the Rigol DS2000. So please don't generalise and say "a la rigol" as if it applies to every scope model they make/made. If you're talking about the bottom of the range DZ1054Z (which isn't exactly in the same class (or budget) as what's being discussed) then please say so.
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no, you are right. i tought rigols would behave the same at least up to the 2000 series!
editing...
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@VBlack
Unlike most here you haven't disclosed your location for appropriate regional advice. :-//
If you go with a SDS2kX you can get a further discount when buying from Saelig, ask for the code in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
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@VBlack
Unlike most here you haven't disclosed your location for appropriate regional advice. :-//
If you go with a SDS2kX you can get a further discount when buying from Saelig, ask for the code in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
My bad, I'm from Ukraine, but find something good here is almost impossible and even if possible price is killing. I'm flying to business trips to USA from time to time, so I have a plan to buy scope in USA
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@VBlack
Unlike most here you haven't disclosed your location for appropriate regional advice. :-//
If you go with a SDS2kX you can get a further discount when buying from Saelig, ask for the code in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/)
My bad, I'm from Ukraine, but find something good here is almost impossible and even if possible price is killing. I'm flying to business trips to USA from time to time, so I have a plan to buy scope in USA
Great, so you have some time to firm up any decision.
http://siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy (http://siglentamerica.com/how_to_buy)
On the US Siglent "How to Buy" page you can find the dealers close to where you will travel but I'd advise you to contact them to make sure they have the model you want in stock.
Eg. I don't stock SDS2304X but I can get them in ~2 weeks.
As you've already discovered there's a lot of out of date info online so any threads here need to be almost read in reverse to know that historical problems with most brands are a thing of the past.
As already offered I have a 2304X fully spec'ed if there's anything you'd like to see. I'm a bit lucky as my demo units are also for personal use. :)
Link added.
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My bad, I'm from Ukraine, but find something good here is almost impossible and even if possible price is killing. I'm flying to business trips to USA from time to time, so I have a plan to buy scope in USA
You can't drive to Poland and buy a scope there? Perhaps have it send to a post office near the border and collect it from there? Still buying a scope more-or-less unseen is a big risk. You better make sure you can return it if it turns out to be a lemon.
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You can't drive to Poland and buy a scope there? Perhaps have it send to a post office near the border and collect it from there? Still buying a scope more-or-less unseen is a big risk. You better make sure you can return it if it turns out to be a lemon.
Well I am not too worry about such situation, because I will have at least week to play with it in US, so returning in such case is not a problem. And again it will be cheaper I believe (And of course I don't want to drive to Poland just for collecting scope from post office, better well check it during business trip)
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However the LA HW is of the older type used in SDS2000 (not X) and not as nice as what's now supplied with the 2000X series.
Could you elaborate on this? What's different between the logic analyzer hardware in the SDS2000 (also the SDS1000X, apparently) versus the SDS2000X?
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However the LA HW is of the older type used in SDS2000 (not X) and not as nice as what's now supplied with the 2000X series.
Could you elaborate on this? What's different between the logic analyzer hardware in the SDS2000 (also the SDS1000X, apparently) versus the SDS2000X?
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1542&id=1488&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1542&id=1488&tid=1&T=2)
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=4728&id=4688&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=4728&id=4688&tid=1&T=2)
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2)
The MSO LA pod for 2000X is split into two 8 ch headers whereas the 2000 is a more rigid single 8 ch affair.
I posted some pics on the 2000X pod, I'll come back with an edit when I find it.
From this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/?action=dlattach;attach=240660)
Edit
Corrections made.
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Unfortunately the new SDS2000X LA pods are way (2 or 3 times?) more expensive than the old one from the SDS2000. The only thing that needed changing on the old one was the cable. The original crappy flatcable:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2204-mso-review/?action=dlattach;attach=108471;image)
An alternative (standard SCSI cable BTW):
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2204-mso-review/?action=dlattach;attach=108467;image)
But the point is rather moot. Owners still report bugs after the latest firmware release:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/msg1077062/#msg1077062 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/msg1077062/#msg1077062)
And sure Tautech will come in claiming the SDS2000X is different than the SDS2000 but these scopes run 99.9% identical firmware.
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You can't drive to Poland and buy a scope there? Perhaps have it send to a post office near the border and collect it from there? Still buying a scope more-or-less unseen is a big risk. You better make sure you can return it if it turns out to be a lemon.
Well I am not too worry about such situation, because I will have at least week to play with it in US, so returning in such case is not a problem.
Just playing is definitely not enough. For example: on the Siglent SDS2204 I had triggering on specific CAN messages didn't work and I'm not sure this bug ever got fixed. When I bought the GDS2204E I took it through a long series of tests in order not to get stung again. See the review I made: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-(200mhz-4-channel-dso)-review/msg855862 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-(200mhz-4-channel-dso)-review/msg855862). In other words: bring along some test boards for signals, signal generator, etc to really check the scope and see if the firmware can do what you need. If it doesn't do what you need just put it back in the box and return it.
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Unfortunately the new SDS2000X LA pods are way (2 or 3 times?) more expensive than the old one from the SDS2000.
Why would that be ?
Oh yeah, 8 vs 16 channels. ::)
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2)
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And sure Tautech will come in claiming the SDS2000X is different than the SDS2000 but these scopes run 99.9% identical firmware.
You bet I will.
Really, I'm totally fucked off with your persistent trolling in regard to Siglent products. :rant:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-200-300mhz-4-channel-logic-and-canlin-analyser-budget-$2000-$2600/?action=dlattach;attach=298021)
You had one in the past.....the past, so move on.
You proclaim to know all about current products when really you have no idea at all.
To demonstrate your lack of knowledge with current Siglent products:
Note dates:
September 11, 2015
The comments in this thread warmed me up to considering selling the SDS2204 and coincidentally someone contacted me for that reason (he needed a simple scope he could use 'in the line of fire'). A deal was struck and so the SDS2204 is packed and ready to go to a new home.
Some weeks AFTER you sold your SDS2204, V2 firmware was announced and it went on to replace earlier firmware in SDS2k series and became the standard firmware for 2k, 2kX and 1kX Siglent DSO's.
November 23, 2015
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/)
SO HOW COULD YOU KNOW ANYTHING OF THIS V2 FIRMWARE OTHER THAN WHAT YOU HAVE READ ???????????
Nothing, no actual experience, none at all. :-DD
To further prove ignorance, some screenshots:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-200-300mhz-4-channel-logic-and-canlin-analyser-budget-$2000-$2600/?action=dlattach;attach=298023)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-200-300mhz-4-channel-logic-and-canlin-analyser-budget-$2000-$2600/?action=dlattach;attach=298025)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-200-300mhz-4-channel-logic-and-canlin-analyser-budget-$2000-$2600/?action=dlattach;attach=298027)
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And sure Tautech will come in claiming the SDS2000X is different than the SDS2000 but these scopes run 99.9% identical firmware.
You bet I will.
Really, I'm totally fucked off with your persistent trolling in regard to Siglent products. :rant:
Maybe you should look in the mirror and step up your game and proof me wrong with some solid evidence for a change. When I make a technically founded comment you never come up with anything else then 'I don't own one anymore so I must be clueless'. RF-loop even sinks lower by just making a stupid remark. The fact is I'm a very demanding oscilloscope user faced with many though measurements in an R&D environment so I get into every nook and cranny of a DSO. I have owned and used many DSOs (maybe 20 or so) in all kinds of price ranges. It seems I just know more about DSOs and their practical uses than you. If I see a potential drawback on using a particular scope for a certain purpose I'll call it out. It is not my fault Siglent doesn't test their equipment very well before releasing it so a warning to check the features you need immediately after buying a Siglent product seems like a very reasonable warning to me. If you don't like that then take that matter up with Siglent. It is also not my fault other manufacturers have released oscilloscopes with other strong points in the meantime which may be a better fit for the OP's requirements.
Play the ball, not the man.
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And sure Tautech will come in claiming the SDS2000X is different than the SDS2000 but these scopes run 99.9% identical firmware.
You bet I will.
Really, I'm totally fucked off with your persistent trolling in regard to Siglent products. :rant:
Maybe you should look in the mirror and step up your game and proof me wrong with some solid evidence for a change.
Just done that above, again you didn't read/examine the detail. :palm:
Thank you for suggestions. MSOX3024A is nice, but looks out of budget (found used on ebay for $4k), MDO3032 also (about $3k)
Used MSO6/7000 looks also starting from $3k
GW MSO-2204EA looks promising, however Siglent SDS2304X has twice RT sample rate (2GSa/s), Record length up to 140 Mpts/CH, waveform capture rate 500,000.
Is Siglent SDS2000x series that bad? Still they has buggy firmware?
Welcome to the forum.
2kX scopes are just fine and those that think they know better are talking out of there aholes.
Any screen shots you'd like to see just ask.
Edit
There's also the SDS1000X+ series that has a similar UI and AWG std and 16ch MSO as well.
These like the 2000X have an Ext Trig input if that can assist as a defacto 3rd channel.
However the LA HW is of the older type used in SDS2000 (not X) and not as nice as what's now supplied with the 2000X series.
No surprise you ran true to form. :palm:
When I make a technically founded comment you never come up with anything else then 'I don't own one anymore so I must be clueless'.
Your words, not mine. Mine would've been stronger.
The fact is I'm a very demanding oscilloscope user faced with many though measurements in an R&D environment so I get into every nook and cranny of a DSO. I have owned and used many DSOs (maybe 20 or so) in all kinds of price ranges. It seems I just know more about DSOs and their practical uses than you.
Not about Siglent products you don't. Period.
If I see a potential drawback on using a particular scope for a certain purpose I'll call it out.
I'll give you one :-+
It is not my fault Siglent doesn't test their equipment very well before releasing it so a warning to check the features you need immediately after buying a Siglent product seems like a very reasonable warning to me.
A lot has happened in over 2 years since you had your scope....but you seem to only remember the bad points and repeatedly rabbit on about them long after they've been fixed.
What I do revel in is those that provide constructive feedback about Siglent products that I can pass on to the engineers for them to address in the next firmware, it seems something you're unable to do. ::)
If you don't like that then take that matter up with Siglent. It is also not my fault other manufacturers have released oscilloscopes with other strong points in the meantime which may be a better fit for the OP's requirements.
Play the ball, not the man.
Again you have no fucking idea of what you're talking about, nor know what's happening behind the scenes. You have chosen to move away from Siglent products despite the best efforts of a good # of people trying to sort issues you had at that time, some 2 1/2 years ago.
Things are VERY different now, thanks in some small way to you, products are much more mature and advanced before market release and issues are addressed much more promptly. The SDG1 and 2kX, SDS1kX and SSA models particularly are testament to advances by Siglent and are current forum favourites.
Be well aware, further unnecessary degrading comments of Siglent products by you will be addressed with similar venom in any thread in which they appear. Watch your back cock.
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tautech has been given a couple of days to cool off.
Anyway, I'm supposed to be getting a new scope very soon to be released in this sort of price bracket I believe from one of the biggies.
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tautech has been given a couple of days to cool off.
Anyway, I'm supposed to be getting a new scope very soon to be released in this sort of price bracket I believe from one of the biggies.
Cool, I'll definitely wait for the news!
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Unfortunately the new SDS2000X LA pods are way (2 or 3 times?) more expensive than the old one from the SDS2000.
Why would that be ?
Oh yeah, 8 vs 16 channels. ::)
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2)
The SDS1000X LA pod is also 16 channel, it seems. At least, that's what the web page you pointed me at says (and it seems to have 16 probes). I realize you were answering the question about the difference between the 2000X probes and the 2000 probes, so no worries about that. :-+
Anyway, the 2000X setup does look more flexible, but is considerably more expensive ($369 versus $199, both prices from Saelig). Since the number of channels is the same, what accounts for the price difference (well, other than marketing considerations, since the 1000X series is aimed more at the hobbyist market)?
[Yes, I realize that tautech is currently in the cooler. Hopefully he'll see this and respond once he returns].
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Unfortunately the new SDS2000X LA pods are way (2 or 3 times?) more expensive than the old one from the SDS2000.
Why would that be ?
Oh yeah, 8 vs 16 channels. ::)
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2 (http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fjxx.aspx?fjid=1308&id=25&tid=1&T=2)
The SDS1000X LA pod is also 16 channel, it seems. At least, that's what the web page you pointed me at says (and it seems to have 16 probes). I realize you were answering the question about the difference between the 2000X probes and the 2000 probes, so no worries about that. :-+
Anyway, the 2000X setup does look more flexible, but is considerably more expensive ($369 versus $199, both prices from Saelig). Since the number of channels is the same, what accounts for the price difference (well, other than marketing considerations, since the 1000X series is aimed more at the hobbyist market)?
[Yes, I realize that tautech is currently in the cooler. Hopefully he'll see this and respond once he returns].
SPL1016 (1000X series) and SPL2016 (SDS2000X series) are very very different if look construction.
SPL1016 is cheap connector then normal cheap flat cable to probe head. Probe head is active. After probe head 16 short cables for connect signals. Comparators with adjustable treshold are in probe head.
Construction is cheap. Flat cable is flexible and connectors ok and small separate cables are very flexible and soft.. It can not separate two 8bit bus. (you can if you do one cable between head and short signal cables (there is 2 connectors between these and probe head) bit in this case you perhaps loose signal quality.
SPL2016 is much more like made for heavy use. Also it have 2 separate 8bit bus cables after scope front connector. (Also this connector is better (more robust) if think heavy use)
Bus cables are strong but very flexible. Both cables have probe head where is short cables for connect signals. Both bus can connect far away from each others. Probe head looks like passive and I suspect there is only matching circuit from single short cable to coaxial. (I have not looked inside heads but in use they stay cool unlike SPL1016 head what run warm and I know what is inside)
Overall both probes are much higher quality what was case in SDS2000 series.
SPL2016 building and construction quality do not shame if take some big brand comparable product.
Some may wonder if this SPL2016 is just cheap cable and connector. Look more close these cables and think again. Oh well you can try - after some trial time I come and ask - how are you. Yes it can do but.... Peoples are ready for pay 1000 euro for some simple differential probe what have 15 euro components there. Again can ask - do it your self and after some trial time it can ask - how are you. Of course as hobby - all can do.
These both probes are cheap if think they quality. Specially SPL2016 (335 euro 0VAT)
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That may be but for the SDS2000 buying the logic channels was a no-brainer while for a higher price it may be more interesting to buy a seperate logic analyser. Either a new USB based logic analyser or a used one from Tektronix or HP/Agilent.
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That may be but for the SDS2000 buying the logic channels was a no-brainer while for a higher price it may be more interesting to buy a seperate logic analyser. Either a new USB based logic analyser or a used one from Tektronix or HP/Agilent.
SDS2000 is different and also it is not active product in european market at all. It is still available example in China domestic markets.
In SDS2000X whole LA construction is different, including high grade real probe caable and not cheap flat ribbon as it was in your case with SDS2000. Totally different, nothing same. Only name Siglent is same.
Separate cheap USB analyzers yes but this is not at all MSO.
Separate real LA what can do time and state analyze is of course nice tool but mostly not very cheap. Example ZLG LAB7504
http://www.zlg.com/la/la/product/id/51.html (http://www.zlg.com/la/la/product/id/51.html)
But I have still HP16500B and C. (boat anchor - but fully working old "rolls royce"...)
I can not see differences except product label. Are they really same, perhaps from same supplier??? Also grabbers looks indentical.
Tektronix P6316
Siglent SPL2016
But SPL1016 is very different and not so handy in use because all 15 channels are in same probe head so distance to connect is quite limited. Also it looks like SDS2kX LA signals have less treshold jitter (perhaps less noise? or comparators works more accurate due to reason or other. Still also SDS1kX with SPL1016 is well inside specifications with these some individuals what I have tested.
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You are missing the point: if an MSO cable is expensive compared to alternative solutions then it is not attractive to buy an oscilloscope with an MSO connection. This is true for any oscilloscope/MSO no matter which brand or type. You always have to compare price versus functionality.
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tautech has been given a couple of days to cool off.
Actually it wound me up a little, not your actions but others that are responsible for things getting out of hand.
One might hope that some mention of their actions was made in order to help prevent further indiscretions.
Thank you for preserving the post content as some reminder to some that might care to carry on posting unnecessary BS.
Finally, sorry for disturbing your Saturday morning when at that hour it should've been with your family. :(
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The SDS1000X LA pod is also 16 channel, it seems. At least, that's what the web page you pointed me at says (and it seems to have 16 probes). I realize you were answering the question about the difference between the 2000X probes and the 2000 probes, so no worries about that. :-+
Anyway, the 2000X setup does look more flexible, but is considerably more expensive ($369 versus $199, both prices from Saelig). Since the number of channels is the same, what accounts for the price difference (well, other than marketing considerations, since the 1000X series is aimed more at the hobbyist market)?
[Yes, I realize that tautech is currently in the cooler. Hopefully he'll see this and respond once he returns].
One has to look at the bigger picture re this apparent pricing disparity.
For some time there's been promotions running for the SDS2kX series, it's taken a few forms but essentially the best deal is to buy the MSO option and probe set and get all other available options AND a BW upgrade thrown in free.
That equates to a $ 1220 saving on the 4 ch 300 MHz model which makes the LA probe set cost much less significant.
However if the LA probe set is the only option you want I can understand the concern but with the current deal you get all options for that price.
Show me comparable models that offer Decode, AWG, MSO and a BW upgrade for the price of the LA probe set and its option activation.
This reply is directed at kcbrown, no trolls need respond. :P
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Hello folks - R&S will be launching a game changer - killer scope with the right specs within your budget ... models RTB 2002 & 2004
It has advanced features - rather low budget - it is a true no brainer ... meets all your requirements (200-300Mhz 4 channel + logic and CAN/LIN/ analyser. Budget $2000-$2600)
https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_manuals/gb_1/r/rtb_1/RTB_GettingStarted_en_02.pdf
R&S will launch the scope at Embedded World 2017 - Nurnberg in Germany (14 - 16th March)
Enjoy
Flinstone
Looks really promising! Thank you, I think I need to wait for some detailed review to consider.
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I doubt it will fit the budget. The 4 channel 200MHz R&S RTB2004 MSO is over 3600 euro at Farnell which is twice as expensive as GW Instek's MSO2204 (assuming the decoding options are including in the RTB2004).
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Seems there is an amazing launch offer on the new R&S - My guess is very limited availability but if you can get it, it's an utter no-brainer - 300MHz, MSO, Arbgen and all options for $2080
https://www.testequity.com/products/33440/?pitem=45772#tabgroup (https://www.testequity.com/products/33440/?pitem=45772#tabgroup)
..and with free tool kit :
http://www.tequipment.net/Rohde-&-Schwarz/RTB2K-COM4/Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscopes-(MSO)/?v=0 (http://www.tequipment.net/Rohde-&-Schwarz/RTB2K-COM4/Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscopes-(MSO)/?v=0)
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Hm, I'm thinking is there useful benefits (except price) between new R&S and DSOX3034A+MSO option ?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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Hm, I'm thinking is there useful benefits (except price) between new R&S and DSOX3034A+MSO option ?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Mostly price, with that offer.
Obvious differences I can see :
R&S has Bigger screen, Touchscreen, more memory, colour intensity grading modes, built-in 1gb ethernet ( remote screen etc.) 10 bit ADC, 1mv/div without bandwidth limiting on
Keysight has higher waveform capture rate , two simultaneous decodes, zone trigger, more trigger modes ( nth edge burst & others) , measure trend
R&S appears to be aimed more at the DSOX2000, and is a no-brainer there, but DSOX3000 has a few advantages AFAICS
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Hm, I'm thinking is there useful benefits (except price) between new R&S and DSOX3034A+MSO option ?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Mostly price, with that offer.
Obvious differences I can see :
R&S has Bigger screen, Touchscreen, more memory, colour intensity grading modes, built-in 1gb ethernet ( remote screen etc.) 10 bit ADC, 1mv/div without bandwidth limiting on
Keysight has higher waveform capture rate , two simultaneous decodes, zone trigger, more trigger modes ( nth edge burst & others) , measure trend
R&S appears to be aimed more at the DSOX2000, and is a no-brainer there, but DSOX3000 has a few advantages AFAICS
Active probe support can be a big feature, but you generally know that already when you're buying a scope ;)
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Hm, I'm thinking is there useful benefits (except price) between new R&S and DSOX3034A+MSO option ?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Mostly price, with that offer.
Obvious differences I can see :
R&S has Bigger screen, Touchscreen, more memory, colour intensity grading modes, built-in 1gb ethernet ( remote screen etc.) 10 bit ADC, 1mv/div without bandwidth limiting on
Keysight has higher waveform capture rate , two simultaneous decodes, zone trigger, more trigger modes ( nth edge burst & others) , measure trend
R&S appears to be aimed more at the DSOX2000, and is a no-brainer there, but DSOX3000 has a few advantages AFAICS
Active probe support can be a big feature, but you generally know that already when you're buying a scope ;)
Thank you for main points. I'm just trying to measure some important difference for me. Since R&S does not have campaign on RTB2000 locally (yet?) I'm thinking that if bought from US it will cost totally about $3k totally($2k+customs+shipping), for about same price could be possible to get DSOX3034 (which actually could be "tweaked" to MSOX3054 + all options) locally. Currently I need to measure about 200-250Mhz and use LA, so 500Mhz looks overkill for now, but could be handy in future. Also rich triggering option is a big plus. Both of them has CAN/LIN decoding...
Another thing I am thinking that R&S has no separate Y control, is it not annoying? Cause I have Hantek 1202B DSO (portable) - it is has no wheels to control Y, just buttons - I really hate it from time to time (but it is portable). Anyway I am going to visit local R&S office to try by myself, but I have doubts that it could be OK for short time play and became annoying later, during real work.
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Guys,
One quick important question.
I am not US-resident, traveling for business trip to US. Is there could be problem to take RTB2004 bundle scope with me outside US (Ukraine) ?
I just do not want to get into some problems when I will fly back US with this scope.
Any suggestions?
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I don't see any problem with taking the scope outside the country. However be prepared to pay import duties at arrival in your country!
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I don't see any problem with taking the scope outside the country. However be prepared to pay import duties at arrival in your country!
Thank you, Import duties is well-known, I am more worried about this statement from the order:
The exportation of these commodities from the United States is, or may be, subject to the Federal Export Control Regulations and Licensing Procedures set forth in the Export Administration Act and the Federal Regulations promulgated pursuant thereto. Compliance with the applicable regulations and procedures is required as a prerequisite to the exportation of commodities governed thereunder, and this sale made by TestEquity LLC subject to the understanding that you will comply with all applicable regulations.
Cause I am not US-resident, most of mentioned documents is not well-known for me, so...
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I have CAN decoding enabled on my Oscilloscope, don't remember why I got it and what for, but I would rather use CAN bus analyzer with my PC than look at it on Oscilloscope. Bus analyzers are WAAAAY better tool for anything related to analyzing CAN packets etc.
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I have CAN decoding enabled on my Oscilloscope, don't remember why I got it and what for, but I would rather use CAN bus analyzer with my PC than look at it on Oscilloscope. Bus analyzers are WAAAAY better tool for anything related to analyzing CAN packets etc.
Yes, I absolutely agree, as well as for almost any other buses. But from my point of view bus decoding in scope mostly used, when you debug CAN bus waveform for example, with bus analyzer, and logic analyzer you will have only buggy stream output, without an idea what actually goes wrong (glitches, rise/fall time, etc). And also handy for quick overview of packets.