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Choosing a ~$10K MSO (Keysight 3000G, LeCroy 4000HD, Tek MSO34, R&S ??)

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2N3055:

--- Quote from: tooki on November 05, 2023, 11:02:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on November 05, 2023, 10:18:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 05, 2023, 09:18:40 pm ---Lecroys typically can't zoom out which is something that is super handy for doing embedded development work.
--- End quote ---
And the scopes discussed have several other ways to achieve the same result. In many ways the more flexible windows/views of the Lecroy where the user can freely define the split between the views is far and away more useful than your hacky "zoom out", which while it may fit your construed workflow does not naturally make sense.

--- End quote ---
Bear in mind that the WaveSurfer models can’t do this with anywhere near the flexibility of the WaveRunners.

--- End quote ---

You need to include active probes into the picture... Many times that makes decision for you. If you already have some probes for certain platform that is big plus. Or when buying new probes, being able to sell "but it will work for other scopes too.." helps too..

If some of he work will be on precision analog (ADCs or something) then 12 bit is plus.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: tooki on November 05, 2023, 06:10:40 pm ---Am I giving too much weight to having digital inputs?
Would that be better spent on a separate USB logic analyzer like a Saleae or Analog Discovery?

--- End quote ---
There can be a lot of heated debate around this but in the end you are the one who knows best what kind of projects you get on your desk. Personally I like to have digital channels on a DSO in order to use it as a general purpose logic analyser / correlating digital signals with analog signals. The biggest advantage is that an oscilloscope is already on your desk and hooking up signals is easy. So no need to pull a computer screen + mouse + keyboard near the already crowded working area.

Another question is whether a generic USB logic analyser is a good alternative to a dedicated protocol analyser. For example: When I need to deal with a CAN bus, I typically use a dedicated CAN bus dongle together with software which can capture, analyse and save all data. Ofcourse decoding is still usefull up to a certain amount of data but a CAN bus generally has a huge amount of data being repeated so memory fills up fast with useless data.

tooki:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on November 05, 2023, 11:08:55 pm ---You need to include active probes into the picture... Many times that makes decision for you. If you already have some probes for certain platform that is big plus. Or when buying new probes, being able to sell "but it will work for other scopes too.." helps too..

--- End quote ---
It’s hard for me to guess whether I’ll do anything that would require active probes — my understanding/observation so far is that the faster signals are already on 50 ohm lines.

My former coworker (the one who repaired the WaveRunner) actually built his own active 4GHz (IIRC) differential probes for the LeCroy interface. (So far, with a 3D printed housing to plug in directly and draw power, but without I2C communication, for now.) Whether for the WaveRunner or potential future WaveSurfer, he said he’d share the design with me once he’s refined a few things. :P (I think he said it cost something like 50 bucks to build, and it’s similar in performance to some probes LeCroy charges 6000 for, albeit with a smaller input voltage range.)

2N3055:

--- Quote from: tooki on November 05, 2023, 11:21:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on November 05, 2023, 11:08:55 pm ---You need to include active probes into the picture... Many times that makes decision for you. If you already have some probes for certain platform that is big plus. Or when buying new probes, being able to sell "but it will work for other scopes too.." helps too..

--- End quote ---
It’s hard for me to guess whether I’ll do anything that would require active probes — my understanding/observation so far is that the faster signals are already on 50 ohm lines.

My former coworker (the one who repaired the WaveRunner) actually built his own active 4GHz (IIRC) differential probes for the LeCroy interface. (So far, with a 3D printed housing to plug in directly and draw power, but without I2C communication, for now.) Whether for the WaveRunner or potential future WaveSurfer, he said he’d share the design with me once he’s refined a few things. :P (I think he said it cost something like 50 bucks to build, and it’s similar in performance to some probes LeCroy charges 6000 for, albeit with a smaller input voltage range.)

--- End quote ---

Current probes, high voltage diff probes, or even a high impedance low capacitance single ended active probe. If you need to work of wide number of different devices it gets interesting sometimes..

tooki:

--- Quote from: nctnico on November 05, 2023, 11:12:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on November 05, 2023, 06:10:40 pm ---Am I giving too much weight to having digital inputs?
Would that be better spent on a separate USB logic analyzer like a Saleae or Analog Discovery?

--- End quote ---
There can be a lot of heated debate around this but in the end you are the one who knows best what kind of projects you get on your desk. Personally I like to have digital channels on a DSO in order to use it as a general purpose logic analyser / correlating digital signals with analog signals. The biggest advantage is that an oscilloscope is already on your desk and hooking up signals is easy. So no need to pull a computer screen + mouse + keyboard near the already crowded working area.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, unfortunately I just haven’t been in this position long enough to have a really good idea of what kinds of projects I’ll have, hence the nebulous requirements. What I’ve done so far is all stuff that would be easily handled by a $400 Rigol, but the laser labs full of expensive, fast pulse generation and detection gear, and the little bit I’ve been told about the one prof’s own boards, makes me fairly certain that wouldn’t suffice forever. But I also am reasonably certain that massive bandwidth isn’t needed either, it being my understanding that the 2.5GHz WaveRunner was acquired at a steeeeeep discount, far exceeding actual requirements.


--- Quote from: nctnico on November 05, 2023, 11:12:07 pm ---Another question is whether a generic USB logic analyser is a good alternative to a dedicated protocol analyser. For example: When I need to deal with a CAN bus, I typically use a dedicated CAN bus dongle together with software which can capture, analyse and save all data. Ofcourse decoding is still usefull up to a certain amount of data but a CAN bus generally has a huge amount of data being repeated so memory fills up fast with useless data.

--- End quote ---
What kind of interface would you recommend?
One PhD student I’m doing a project for would love to do some CAN bus reverse engineering (since Agilent doesn’t document their command protocol).


Is the dedicated interface you’re thinking of analogous to, for example, the Aardvark for I2C?

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