Author Topic: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs  (Read 401270 times)

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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1025 on: December 21, 2024, 04:43:46 pm »
DIY VESA mount has been made for the SDS800X HD series. That's no longer a win for the other win. 😉
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Online tautech

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1026 on: December 21, 2024, 05:02:32 pm »
You always revolve around the same, different things.
There is a kind of “general quality / excellence”. This is not always easy to define, but it exists in every area of life.
I am Swiss, a cheese matured for 14 months is considered “superior” to a young cheese.
Does that also mean that it necessarily tastes better to me?
Of course not, but it is still the more valuable cheese.

And that's always the point here.
I also think that the Siglent is technically superior to the Rigol and my Hantek anyway. You can hardly doubt that.

Nevertheless, there are always individual points that can be decisive for a person.
If you want HDMI, you buy the Rigol.
If you can't stand long boot times and fan noise, you might even stick with the Hantek, etc.

That doesn't change the fact that the Siglent is generally the better scope, but perhaps not for your purpose.

IMO HDMI instrument connectivity is overrated.  :horse:


If you must port the display to a big screen for any need, a good and powerful webserver is the better solution.

I have SDS6204A and SNA5004A both with HDMI and never used it other to check if it works....big deal  :=\

For 20+ yrs I've had a PC at the bench for PCB CAD, device datasheets and general electronics research, therefore what's another browser tab or 3 adding to the 20+ that are already open.  :-//

With the webserver I have full mouse and keyboard control without needing to touch the instrument along with capture of any files I might need to capture directly to the PC.

For EDU and presentation use the webserver wins again as EDU PC's or laptops can port to a large display via a projector or HDMI connection and provide full instrument control with a mouse.


At the 3 day EMEX exhibition in Auckland a few months back we used a 40" display in conjunction with a mini PC, smaller than a box of chocs and had all instruments connected to it via a private LAN using an old 4 port router and another switch or 2.
We could show each instruments connectivity in browser tabs with just a mouse click, 5x scopes and a few analyzers but sadly we at that time didn't have the recently released PSU's or Arbs with webservers.

No pissing about with $ $ HDMI cabling when a cheap LAN cable offers a much more powerful display porting solution.
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Online Fungus

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1027 on: December 21, 2024, 05:14:07 pm »
For EDU and presentation use the webserver wins again as EDU PC's or laptops can port to a large display via a projector or HDMI connection and provide full instrument control with a mouse.

How do you get it fullscreen instead of like this?

 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1028 on: December 21, 2024, 05:39:50 pm »
For EDU and presentation use the webserver wins again as EDU PC's or laptops can port to a large display via a projector or HDMI connection and provide full instrument control with a mouse.

How do you get it fullscreen instead of like this?

By clicking the expanding arrows in the bottom right corner next to the display image.

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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1029 on: December 21, 2024, 06:13:13 pm »
For EDU and presentation use the webserver wins again as EDU PC's or laptops can port to a large display via a projector or HDMI connection and provide full instrument control with a mouse.

How do you get it fullscreen instead of like this?



Like Josh said :-+

Best
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Offline Grandchuck

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1030 on: December 21, 2024, 06:13:32 pm »
Here is an example on a 28 inch PC.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1031 on: December 21, 2024, 06:52:57 pm »
Like Josh said :-+

Alright, I'm just asking... no need for everybody to take it so personal.
 
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Offline vcor

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1032 on: December 21, 2024, 07:16:22 pm »
On the Rigol fan noise, it seems like a non-issue today. Perhaps Rigol improved the design.  My scope was manufactured in October 2024. In a silent room, being 18" from the front, I can't hear any fan noise.  From 12" from the back, I can hear the fan, but not annoying or noisy.

I used a sound meter, and from 2" away from the back at the location with the highest reading, it was only 57 dB.  At 3" it drops to 53 dB.  This is a very quiet device and shouldn't be a factor in deciding which scope to get. 
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1033 on: December 21, 2024, 07:23:09 pm »
Like Josh said :-+

Alright, I'm just asking... no need for everybody to take it so personal.

In my old SDS1104X-E review, I showed it full-screen on a 32" monitor: https://youtu.be/HI7DGjgl2tw?feature=shared&t=378
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1034 on: December 21, 2024, 07:29:54 pm »
Alright, I'm just asking... no need for everybody to take it so personal.

Nothing personal here, we've got no "Skin in the Rigol/Siglent game"  ;)

We do have both DSOs, altho the Rigol was acquired for a client that has fallen on financial woes!!

Note: Our comments are from an actual use standpoint rather than speculation.

The Rigol is a very good all around DSO, nothing serious to complain about, does what it's supposed to do and does it very well, great value!!

However, the Siglent is what we reach for most of the time, it's performance, features and value are just outstanding IMO ;)

As we've said, don't know how Rigol and Siglent can offer these at this price point, remarkable values!!

Of course as always, YMMV!!

Best
 
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Offline ebastler

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1035 on: December 21, 2024, 08:35:07 pm »
[...] the Rigol was acquired for a client that has fallen on financial woes!!

Unrelated events, I trust?  ;)
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1036 on: December 21, 2024, 10:43:38 pm »
[...] the Rigol was acquired for a client that has fallen on financial woes!!

Unrelated events, I trust?  ;)

Yeah, client over extended themselves on their design side of the product. Went thru multiple mechanical product designs/redesigns with different resources and could never get things right, eventually burning up all their R&D funds. They have a superb PCB (no changes in 1st iteration) that's almost unbreakable with abuse (intended for unskilled users), but can't seem to get their act together wrt to packaging :P

We tried earlier to help them realize their situation (lack of electrical/mechanical skills), even offering to take over the entire project, but fell on deaf ears :o

Best,
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Offline KEY_HAT

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1037 on: January 07, 2025, 03:21:18 am »
Hello KunFu Josh! I just bought my first Siglent SDS804 with your recommendation after debating between the Rigol.  Unfortunately it looks like the hack videos and scripts were removed :(. Would you be able to share it with me? Thanks!
 

Offline mrisco

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1038 on: January 15, 2025, 12:35:18 am »
Can anyone confirm that the SDS804X hides one trace under another as in the picture unlike the DHO804 which has semi-transparent traces allowing both traces to be seen? I just saw it in a Youtube video.
DHO800-900 Extended UI: https://youtu.be/mT4ivaMY7zg
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1039 on: January 15, 2025, 01:09:34 am »
Yes, the SDS824X HD does not show one trace section behind another. However you can select which is the top trace and viewed in full.

Note how the highlighted channel gets front row!

Best
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 01:40:10 am by mawyatt »
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Offline eTobey

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1040 on: January 15, 2025, 06:22:55 pm »
Another example of not seeing everything:
Notice the bottom, where most, but not all the green negative pulses are hidden by the red. Giving the false impression, that green pulses are missing.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1041 on: January 15, 2025, 11:41:25 pm »
Can anyone confirm that the SDS804X hides one trace under another as in the picture unlike the DHO804 which has semi-transparent traces allowing both traces to be seen? I just saw it in a Youtube video.

These are two way to render multiple traces on the screen.
Problem with Rigol style is color mixing.
If you put all 4 channels on and decoding and other stuff, and apply some more complex signals that overlap more randomly, you get a rainbow where you don't know what is part of what.

With Siglent way you always have full view of focused channel and if you want some other channels, you move focus to that one.
Keysight does it same as Siglent, as are many others like Tektronix, R&S and even other Rigol scopes. And for a reason.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1042 on: January 16, 2025, 05:14:22 am »
Can anyone confirm that the SDS804X hides one trace under another as in the picture unlike the DHO804 which has semi-transparent traces allowing both traces to be seen? I just saw it in a Youtube video.

These are two way to render multiple traces on the screen.
Problem with Rigol style is color mixing.
If you put all 4 channels on and decoding and other stuff, and apply some more complex signals that overlap more randomly, you get a rainbow where you don't know what is part of what.

With Siglent way you always have full view of focused channel and if you want some other channels, you move focus to that one.
Keysight does it same as Siglent, as are many others like Tektronix, R&S and even other Rigol scopes. And for a reason.
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Offline mrisco

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1043 on: January 16, 2025, 06:03:52 am »
Problem with Rigol style is color mixing.

I have just seen that in the case of my DHO I have freedom of choice, if I want to hide one trace under another I only have to set the trace to 100%, and if I want to see one trace under another I can set it to +-50%. I normally have it at 50% by default.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 06:05:33 am by mrisco »
DHO800-900 Extended UI: https://youtu.be/mT4ivaMY7zg
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1044 on: January 16, 2025, 06:42:11 am »
Problem with Rigol style is color mixing.

I have just seen that in the case of my DHO I have freedom of choice, if I want to hide one trace under another I only have to set the trace to 100%, and if I want to see one trace under another I can set it to +-50%. I normally have it at 50% by default.

It is same as when working with any software that deals with multiple layers in multiple colors. PCB software for instance.

Thank you for the information. I would still have it non transparent for the reasons I stated.
You are are talking about difference between "hide one trace under another" and "traces mixing and interfering with each other".

It is a choice between clearly seeing selected channel no matter what and maybe seeing it Ok and some other stuff but maybe not or maybe complete confusion.
You might have personal preferences, but non-transparent mode must exist. Because it is only way to actually guarantee you will see the channel you need.

It is good they gave you choice.
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Online Fungus

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1045 on: January 16, 2025, 06:56:49 am »
With Siglent way you always have full view of focused channel and if you want some other channels, you move focus to that one.
Keysight does it same as Siglent, as are many others like Tektronix, R&S and even other Rigol scopes. And for a reason.

Rigol DHO800 does that, too.

Apparently it's not "The Siglent way", go figure.

 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1046 on: January 16, 2025, 11:57:51 am »
With Siglent way you always have full view of focused channel and if you want some other channels, you move focus to that one.
Keysight does it same as Siglent, as are many others like Tektronix, R&S and even other Rigol scopes. And for a reason.

Rigol DHO800 does that, too.

Apparently it's not "The Siglent way", go figure.

No, the "Siglent way" is not  meant as a statement that they invented it, don't be silly.
This is how things get wrong when you take statements out of context.

I said that in response to a specific comparison between the Siglent scope and the other one.

It is good if DHO800 does that too, like the rest of Rigol scopes before. I said that.

The point is that it is industry standard way and Siglent is doing it too.
The point is that it was not invented by Siglent.

This phrasing was used in response to malicious statement (by the usual bringer of libel, misinformation and fake news) that particular way of display was a bug and defect and just plain display (pun intended) of incompetence by manufacturer, for "failing" to do it "right way" (which is being defined as to whatever he feels like it should be at the moment).


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Offline eTobey

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1047 on: January 17, 2025, 11:45:28 am »
Problem with Rigol style is color mixing.

I have just seen that in the case of my DHO I have freedom of choice, if I want to hide one trace under another I only have to set the trace to 100%, and if I want to see one trace under another I can set it to +-50%. I normally have it at 50% by default.

Only the Rigol gives this choice? None of the other brands?
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Offline eTobey

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1048 on: January 17, 2025, 01:50:31 pm »
If you put all 4 channels on and decoding and other stuff, and apply some more complex signals that overlap more randomly, you get a rainbow where you don't know what is part of what.
I am wondering why you are always exaggerating things. An option for this would already help, when there are only 2 traces! No need to exaggerate here. And if you cant understand its usefulness, does not mean its useless.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2025, 07:18:16 am by eTobey »
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SDS800X HD issues/tips/workarounds (Updated 9. Feb. 2025)
 
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Offline awakephdTopic starter

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #1049 on: January 18, 2025, 01:22:27 am »
Hello KunFu Josh! I just bought my first Siglent SDS804 with your recommendation after debating between the Rigol.  Unfortunately it looks like the hack videos and scripts were removed :(. Would you be able to share it with me? Thanks!

Are you asking about upgrading to higher bandwidth & memory? Here's a thread that may help: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds804x-hd-same-upgrade-scripts/
 


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