Author Topic: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs  (Read 347426 times)

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #800 on: May 07, 2024, 07:38:34 pm »
Back in the old days I spend quite some effort and money to get really high quality CRT monitors which had a super sharp image. The likes of 21" Eizo models with active deflection to get the image sharp right into the corners and LG Flatron have been on my desk. And ofcourse high quality VGA cables with seperate BNCs for each color. Blessed was the day I got a TFT monitor.
contrary to my experience. i didnt spend high end on CRT, they were all good enough... then came TFT age, CRT almost all (the good and big one) phased out from shop and it sucks, viewing angle of early TFT was too bad, dimmed or change color during photo editing, what made the pro difference though is the weight. but blessed to latest LCD/LED tech that viewing angle problem is no more.

Such a nice sharp picture. But then UI graphics designers came in and decided text should be unsharp again like on the worst CRT monitors. FFS!  :palm:
we can make analogy between line/vector plot and Sinc plot, edgy vs smooth. without antialiasing/blurry effect, fonts will visible edge pixelization.. i dont have problem with pixelized font, but i think i prefer smooth edge one.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Online awakephdTopic starter

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #801 on: May 09, 2024, 05:49:45 pm »
I have been working through the datasheets, user manuals, etc. for each of these units. There are a couple of specifications that I don't fully understand, and don't understand how to compare between the units:

History, waveform recording, sequence, memory depth - I'm not sure if some or all of these are the same thing, or if not, how they relate to each other. The Rigol specs are 25Mpts of memory depth and a max of 500K of frames for "hardware real-time waveform recording"; meanwhile, the Siglent specs are 50Mpts of memory depth and a max of 80K frames for "History" - but also adds up to 80K of "segments" for "Sequence."

Waveform update rate - the Rigol says up to 30k "vector mode" and up to 1M in "UltraAcquire mode"; the Siglent says up to 80K "normal mode" and up to 500K in "sequence mode." Do "vector mode" = "normal mode" and "UltraAquire mode" = "sequence mode"?

For either of these, presumably more is always better ... but how much difference do they make in actual usage, and when / where do they make a difference?
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #802 on: May 09, 2024, 08:10:02 pm »
Hi,

Quote
Waveform update rate - the Rigol says up to 30k "vector mode" and up to 1M in "UltraAcquire mode"; the Siglent says up to 80K "normal mode" and up to 500K in "sequence mode." Do "vector mode" = "normal mode" and "UltraAquire mode" = "sequence mode"?

"Normal Mode" means normal acquisition at siglent.
In this mode, the scope achieves up to 120000 wfs/s under certain conditions (other than specified in the data sheet).
In "Sequence Mode", which is another acquisition mode, it reaches up to over 500000 wfs/s.
"Vector mode" is somewhat misleading, it is also the normal mode that is meant with the rigol.
"Ultra Acquire" is actually the sequence mode.
Unlike the Siglent, the rigol does not allow you to choose between dot and vector mode in the display menu; the rigol always has vector mode active.
The same applies to interpolation.
Quote
For either of these, presumably more is always better ... but how much difference do they make in actual usage, and when / where do they make a difference?
In practice, I did not notice any significant benefit when using ultra acquire mode with the rigol.


« Last Edit: May 09, 2024, 08:13:38 pm by Martin72 »
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Offline aeberbach

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #803 on: May 10, 2024, 01:29:27 am »
@KungFuJosh
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However, even the VESA mount can be done for Siglent with the help of 3D printing and a little creativity.

Here's one: https://www.printables.com/model/863752-siglent-sds8xx-vesa-mount
Software guy studying B.Eng.
 
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Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #804 on: May 10, 2024, 09:28:33 am »
"Normal Mode" means normal acquisition at siglent.
In this mode, the scope achieves up to 120000 wfs/s under certain conditions (other than specified in the data sheet).
In "Sequence Mode", which is another acquisition mode, it reaches up to over 500000 wfs/s.

Sorry if this is an ignorant question, but is "sequence mode" the same thing as "segmented memory"? (the way that R&S, Keysight, etc. define it)

The "fast segmentation" mode on some of our scopes can significantly increase waveform acquisition rate, and that's why I'm wondering if "sequence mode" is the same thing

https://youtu.be/7KoMjKwI6qw?t=462

Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #805 on: May 10, 2024, 09:51:57 am »
"Normal Mode" means normal acquisition at siglent.
In this mode, the scope achieves up to 120000 wfs/s under certain conditions (other than specified in the data sheet).
In "Sequence Mode", which is another acquisition mode, it reaches up to over 500000 wfs/s.

Sorry if this is an ignorant question, but is "sequence mode" the same thing as "segmented memory"? (the way that R&S, Keysight, etc. define it)

The "fast segmentation" mode on some of our scopes can significantly increase waveform acquisition rate, and that's why I'm wondering if "sequence mode" is the same thing

https://youtu.be/7KoMjKwI6qw?t=462

Yes, they talk about segmented memory.
Funny enough, in Sequence menu, you set number of segments ....  ;D

There is also always running History mode, where scope also, in a same way, also remembers all previous (to extent of available memory of course) triggered captures from normal running mode.
You can use it same as Segmented mode, except Sequence(Segmented  mode) has advantage of much faster triggering.
I believe some R&S scopes have the same feature;D
 
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Online awakephdTopic starter

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #806 on: May 12, 2024, 05:02:01 pm »
I don't know if it is news-worthy or not ... but I have (finally) made my decision and submitted an order. Now anxiously awaiting my new DSO!
 

Online egonotto

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #807 on: May 12, 2024, 05:35:18 pm »
I don't know if it is news-worthy or not ... but I have (finally) made my decision and submitted an order. Now anxiously awaiting my new DSO!

?
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #808 on: May 12, 2024, 05:37:52 pm »
I don't know if it is news-worthy or not ... but I have (finally) made my decision and submitted an order. Now anxiously awaiting my new DSO!

And you have asked the seller to decide which model to send you, to keep up the suspense?  ;)
 
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Online awakephdTopic starter

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #809 on: May 12, 2024, 07:04:15 pm »
Maybe I should set up a poll - how many people think I went with the Rigol, and how many think I went with the Siglent?
 

Offline Antonio90

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #810 on: May 12, 2024, 08:04:01 pm »
My bet is the MXO 5

Edit: if I had to bet, which I don't, it would be the Rigol. And it would be a good choice. I don't think you can really go wrong here with the two options and your requirements TBH.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2024, 08:28:03 pm by Antonio90 »
 

Online awakephdTopic starter

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #811 on: May 12, 2024, 11:28:27 pm »
Here's a hint. I ordered it several days ago, but it hasn't shipped yet. Trying to be patient ...
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #812 on: May 12, 2024, 11:33:53 pm »
With the release of the SDS800X HD series, there is no longer any reason to choose anything else.

"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."
(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Offline Geoff-AU

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #813 on: May 13, 2024, 11:05:06 am »
Maybe I should set up a poll - how many people think I went with the Rigol, and how many think I went with the Siglent?

Please include option 3 for those of us who just blew in on page 33 and haven't invested any emotions in your predicament whatsoever  ;D

Whichever you chose, I'm sure you will enjoy it
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #814 on: May 13, 2024, 11:06:15 am »
Maybe I should set up a poll - how many people think I went with the Rigol, and how many think I went with the Siglent?

Please include option 3 for those of us who just blew in on page 33 and haven't invested any emotions in your predicament whatsoever  ;D

Whichever you chose, I'm sure you will enjoy it

3. Whatever. Good for you...
 

Online awakephdTopic starter

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #815 on: May 14, 2024, 05:26:40 pm »
My apologies - clearly my attempt to be funny (entertaining? cute??) has fallen flat. Ah, well ... my spouse regularly tells me that I'm only half as witty as I think I am. :)

I went with the Siglent. I had hoped to be able to follow up my "announcement" with a picture of the box, but alas, they have yet to ship it.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #816 on: May 14, 2024, 07:53:53 pm »
My apologies - clearly my attempt to be funny (entertaining? cute??) has fallen flat. Ah, well ... my spouse regularly tells me that I'm only half as witty as I think I am. :)

I went with the Siglent. I had hoped to be able to follow up my "announcement" with a picture of the box, but alas, they have yet to ship it.

I also hoped to be funny.. So we have common problem...  ;D

Seriously, whatever the choice is as long as you are happy with it.
 
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Online egonotto

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #817 on: May 14, 2024, 10:47:07 pm »
Hello, 

@awakephd: I would have also ordered an SDS800X HD if I were you, unless your workbench was stable enough to support a heavy Siglent SDS7304A H12.

Have fun with your new device

Best regards
egonotto
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #818 on: May 14, 2024, 11:52:19 pm »
Hello, 

@awakephd: I would have also ordered an SDS800X HD if I were you, unless your workbench was stable enough to support a heavy Siglent SDS7304A H12.

Have fun with your new device

Best regards
egonotto
Certainly 10.6kg is getting up there but lighter than many old boat anchors.  :P
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Online Martin72

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #819 on: May 15, 2024, 12:09:23 am »
I wouldn't care how much it weighs, as long as I had one. 8)
"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."
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Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Offline mrisco

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #820 on: May 21, 2024, 12:09:30 am »
Somebody just added a full screen mode to the Rigol...  :popcorn:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-dho800900-scope/msg5471431/#msg5471431


The full screen mod and other additions are now fully functional:


DHO800-900 Extended UI: https://youtu.be/mT4ivaMY7zg
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #821 on: May 21, 2024, 12:34:55 am »
Somebody just added a full screen mode to the Rigol...  :popcorn:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-dho800900-scope/msg5471431/#msg5471431


The full screen mod and other additions are now fully functional:



That's more like an Oscilloscope should look like.
First & foremost, it is a device for looking at waveforms, not reading numbers off a screen filled with clunky "graphics" just because they are "trendy".
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #822 on: May 21, 2024, 01:15:24 am »
The problem isn't in the interpolation filter at all. Rigol implemented the sin x/x reconstruction wrong. That's it. There is no trade-off to be made here.
In the screenshots that have been posted so far, I could not see that it were "wrong".

I agree.

Rigol isn't "wrong" (or showing a "bug"), they're doing what's practical.

PS: I've been away for a few weeks... did anybody ever try putting an actual AM signal into the Siglent?
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #823 on: May 21, 2024, 07:30:01 am »
... did anybody ever try putting an actual AM signal into the Siglent?

Of course not. Oscilloscopes are just decorations when furnishing a lab.

(I can't find a suitable smiley after that my statement. But I guess everyone understands that kind of thing.)
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Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs
« Reply #824 on: May 21, 2024, 09:06:51 am »
Certainly 10.6kg is getting up there but lighter than many old boat anchors.  :P

Indeed.  But even plenty of modern T&M instruments weight significantly more than 10.6 kg.  I used to tell people that one of the job requirements for working as an AE in T&M was "Must be able to lift 25 kilograms."  :-DD 

I feel sorry enough for my FedEx driver that I regularly help him load and unload instruments when he comes to my house. 

A good cart is also pretty much a requirement: field T&M professionals talk about and compare carts the same way that most people do with cars or boats :)

Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 
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