Choosing between entry-level 12-bit DSOs

[Fungus]

NEWS FLASH: THIS IS NOT RIGOL DEDICATED THREAD.

Correct.

If it was, I wouldn't be here, would I?

If you want me to post links to some recent "pro-Siglent" posts of yours in Rigol threads I can do it, no problem...

[2N3055]

NEWS FLASH: THIS IS NOT RIGOL DEDICATED THREAD.

Correct.

If it was, I wouldn't be here, would I?

If you want me to post links to some recent "pro-Siglent" posts of yours in Rigol threads I can do it, no problem...

You want to do this again?

You wouldn't post if it was Rigol dedicated thread?
Confused much?

My last few posts in Rigol related threads:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-new-firmware-1-03/msg5723181/#msg5723181
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-new-firmware-1-03/msg5723385/#msg5723385
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-new-firmware-1-03/msg5723495/#msg5723495
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-new-firmware-1-03/msg5725033/#msg5725033
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-new-firmware-1-03/msg5725077/#msg5725077

Which one is factually incorrect, or which one I mentioned other manufacturers by name?
Or in Rigol threads truth and facts are not allowed?

[nctnico]

 

[Fungus]

You want to do this again?

No, I don't.

You started it. Again.

I'm done for this round. Don't bother replying.

[KungFuJosh]

This got silly fast. 

There's nothing wrong with liking the Rigol. But it is a lesser scope, now at a lesser price. If it really could hold it's own against the superior product, they wouldn't have changed the price. 🤷

[Fungus]

There's nothing wrong with liking the Rigol.

Exactly.

And not being able to see four 250Mhz signals simultaneously doesn't seem like a deal-breaker to me. I can't imagine the average Arduino hacker will ever do that.

I'm fairly sure I never will.

OTOH I appreciate the easy WiFi, the half-size form factor, etc.

I haven't seen it in real life but, judging from screenshots the text rendering on the Rigol is also far easier on the eyes (probably due to Android). I appreciate that, too.

In short, I have no compelling reason to switch even if you offered me a free swap for a Siglent.

And I can't be the only one.

[KungFuJosh]

You're being specific to your needs, which is fine for you. But other people are talking about fair comparisons between two devices, and considering other people's needs.

Yes, it meets your needs, and it costs less.

No, it is not as good as the more expensive scope that you don't need.

Simple enough. 😉

[Fungus]

No, it is not as good as the more expensive scope that you don't need.

Simple enough. 😉

I'm guessing you missed this part:

I appreciate the easy WiFi, the half-size form factor, etc.

I haven't seen it in real life but, judging from screenshots the text rendering on the Rigol is also far easier on the eyes (probably due to Android). I appreciate that, too.

In short, there's no "best".

[KungFuJosh]

In short, there's no "best".

From one troll to another, Respect. 😉

That's some straight bullshit though. 

[ebourg]

There's nothing wrong with liking the Rigol. But it is a lesser scope, now at a lesser price. If it really could hold it's own against the superior product, they wouldn't have changed the price.

Actually the price didn't change, there was a temporary 30% discount for the Black Friday and the price is now back to normal, at least on Amazon.

[KungFuJosh]

There's nothing wrong with liking the Rigol. But it is a lesser scope, now at a lesser price. If it really could hold it's own against the superior product, they wouldn't have changed the price.

Actually the price didn't change, there was a temporary 30% discount for the Black Friday and the price is now back to normal, at least on Amazon.

It's still $70 less on Amazon here. I guess they're trying to remove the only real benefit it had. 😉

[ebourg]

It's still $70 less on Amazon here. I guess they're trying to remove the only real benefit it had. 😉

The DHO804 with 150MHz probes is back to 480€ here, compared to the SDS814X with 100MHz probes at 600€. The improved sampling rate of the Siglent still comes at a price.

[KungFuJosh]

It's still $70 less on Amazon here. I guess they're trying to remove the only real benefit it had. 😉

The DHO804 with 150MHz probes is back to 480€ here, compared to the SDS814X with 100MHz probes at 600€. The improved sampling rate of the Siglent still comes at a price.

That's a silly combination. Why waste money for branded probes? Get TesTec or ProbeMaster probes. A ProbeMaster multi-probe kit with accessories costs less than that price jump, and is better quality than either scope. 😉

The DHO804 here is $370 on Amazon. $440 for the SDS804X HD. About the same prices on Saelig.

[nctnico]

It's still $70 less on Amazon here. I guess they're trying to remove the only real benefit it had. 😉

The DHO804 with 150MHz probes is back to 480€ here, compared to the SDS814X with 100MHz probes at 600€. The improved sampling rate of the Siglent still comes at a price.

That's a silly combination. Why waste money for branded probes? Get TesTec or ProbeMaster probes. A ProbeMaster multi-probe kit with accessories costs less than that price jump, and is better quality than either scope. 😉

Yep. The obsession people have on getting probes with a scope never ceases to amaze me. When I sell an oscilloscope I make sure to include a set of probes I bought for 5 euro (per 4 pieces) on Aliexpress. Gets me at least 100 euro more for the scope...  The bottom line is: the probes which come with cheap scopes are crap. So better buy quality ones from Testec. They don't cost much and will be useful until you wear them out.

[Martin72]

The DHO804 here is $370 on Amazon

Here the DHO804 still costs €475...

[ebourg]

Why waste money for branded probes? Get TesTec or ProbeMaster probes. A ProbeMaster multi-probe kit with accessories costs less than that price jump, and is better quality than either scope. 😉

ProbeMaster 4901-2 150MHz is sold $60, $240 for a set of four, a bit more with taxes and shipping.
TesTec TT-LX 312 150MHz is cheaper, about 35€ per probe, looks like a better deal.

So let's pick the SDS804X at 490€ (with VAT) and 4 x TesTec TT-LX 312, that's 630€. The SDS814X is cheaper than the SDS804X with other probes.

[ebourg]

The bottom line is: the probes which come with cheap scopes are crap. So better buy quality ones from Testec. They don't cost much and will be useful until you wear them out.

Do we know how the Rigol and Siglent probes compare to the ProbeMaster and TesTec probes?

[ebastler]

ProbeMaster 4901-2 150MHz is sold $60, $240 for a set of four, a bit more with taxes and shipping.
TesTec TT-LX 312 150MHz is cheaper, about 35€ per probe, looks like a better deal.

In Europe, the Testec probes are a better deal than ProbeMaster. The fact that Testec is based here is probably part of the equation; I think the pricing looks different in the US.

You would be paying too much for the Testec LX 312 at 35€. Reichelt has them for 24€, for example. But you might want to opt for the MX 212 or MX 312 instead, which are specified at 250 MHz, so you can upgrade your scope to an SDS824X HD.

[ebastler]

Do we know how the Rigol and Siglent probes compare to the ProbeMaster and TesTec probes?

I have had two cheap Rigol probes fall apart on me (after several years of light usage); no problems with the Testec probes yet. I have not used the Siglent probes that came bundled with the SDS814X HD since I got used to the Testecs. The Siglents look similar to the Rigols in quality.

Some other differences I noted: The plastic insulation around the ground crocodile clips was very stiff on the Rigol probes in particular, making it annoyingly hard to clip them on. The hooks on the cheap Rigol and Siglent probes are stamped sheet metal where the Testecs use spring steel. The Testec probes come with BNC adapters and spare tips -- but surprisingly without a ground spring. The Testec MX probes have dual compensation potentiometers capacitors, for separate LF and HF compensation.

[Martin72]

Yep. The obsession people have on getting probes with a scope never ceases to amaze me. When I sell an oscilloscope I make sure to include a set of probes I bought for 5 euro (per 4 pieces) on Aliexpress. Gets me at least 100 euro more for the scope...  The bottom line is: the probes which come with cheap scopes are crap. So better buy quality ones from Testec. They don't cost much and will be useful until you wear them out.

The probes from Testec that come with the Magnova are really good.
Likewise, the probes that come with a Siglent SDS3000X HD and with Lecroy it's really wild.
Their probes alone cost around €800 each, so you get 4 probes for over €3000 for free with a scope that costs €10,000.
Or would the scope cost €7000 without them....
It's really a wild thing with the probes.

[tautech]

Yep. The obsession people have on getting probes with a scope never ceases to amaze me. When I sell an oscilloscope I make sure to include a set of probes I bought for 5 euro (per 4 pieces) on Aliexpress. Gets me at least 100 euro more for the scope...  The bottom line is: the probes which come with cheap scopes are crap. So better buy quality ones from Testec. They don't cost much and will be useful until you wear them out.

The probes from Testec that come with the Magnova are really good.
Likewise, the probes that come with a Siglent SDS3000X HD and with Lecroy it's really wild.
Their probes alone cost around €800 each, so you get 4 probes for over €3000 for free with a scope that costs €10,000.
Or would the scope cost €7000 without them....
It's really a wild thing with the probes.

SDS3000X HD 500 MHz probes:
https://siglentna.com/product/sp3050a-500-mhz-oscilloscope-probe/

[Martin72]

As I said, the probes that come with a Siglent 3000X HD are good.
The probes that come with the larger Lecroy scopes are a completely different story. However, I doubt that they are worth €800.

[nctnico]

Yep. The obsession people have on getting probes with a scope never ceases to amaze me. When I sell an oscilloscope I make sure to include a set of probes I bought for 5 euro (per 4 pieces) on Aliexpress. Gets me at least 100 euro more for the scope...  The bottom line is: the probes which come with cheap scopes are crap. So better buy quality ones from Testec. They don't cost much and will be useful until you wear them out.

The probes from Testec that come with the Magnova are really good.
Likewise, the probes that come with a Siglent SDS3000X HD and with Lecroy it's really wild.
Their probes alone cost around €800 each, so you get 4 probes for over €3000 for free with a scope that costs €10,000.

My guess is they pay like 10 euro per probe in bulk. You can probably find the same probes (from the OEM) for a fraction of what Lecroy is charging.

[Martin72]

They will cost a little more than €10, they are too well made and too well equipped for that.
But €800 for a replacement is an absolute joke; €200 would be more understandable.
Well, the actual clientele won't care.

[ebourg]

I have had two cheap Rigol probes fall apart on me (after several years of light usage); no problems with the Testec probes yet. I have not used the Siglent probes that came bundled with the SDS814X HD since I got used to the Testecs. The Siglents look similar to the Rigols in quality.

Some other differences I noted: The plastic insulation around the ground crocodile clips was very stiff on the Rigol probes in particular, making it annoyingly hard to clip them on. The hooks on the cheap Rigol and Siglent probes are stamped sheet metal where the Testecs use spring steel. The Testec probes come with BNC adapters and spare tips -- but surprisingly without a ground spring. The Testec MX probes have dual compensation potentiometers capacitors, for separate LF and HF compensation.

So mostly a difference of build quality and usability, but is there also a noticeable difference in signal quality?