Author Topic: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E  (Read 2303 times)

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Offline sundance

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Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« on: April 08, 2019, 10:43:23 am »
Except from 2 GSa/s vs. 1 GSa/s and memory depth (28 vs. 7 Mpt/s):
Are there other main differences to justify a 200 $/€ difference in price?
(confessing: DSO rookie in the process of purchasing...)
 

Offline BillB

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2019, 12:35:43 pm »
All the stuff that was only available to the 1104X-E is now available on the 2202X-E:

▪ 16 Digital channels (MSO) (option)
▪ Bode plot
▪ Search and navigate
▪ USB AWG module(option)
▪ USB WIFI adapter(option)
▪ Web Browser based control
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 07:04:24 pm »
All the stuff that was only available to the 1104X-E is now available on the 2202X-E:

▪ 16 Digital channels (MSO) (option)
▪ Bode plot
▪ Search and navigate
▪ USB AWG module(option)
▪ USB WIFI adapter(option)
▪ Web Browser based control
Correct and to add:
50 Ohm inputs
Can control external AWG (SAG1021 option)

And SDS1202X-E can't do this:
New SDS2022X-E, unpacked and with the new firmware.

520 MHz from HP sig gen. (substantially attenuated amplitude @ some 300 MHz past rated BW)  :o


Soon, now with my SSG3021X RF sig gen back from Defpom I'll push SDS2202X-E and SDS2352X-E to higher frequencies to find where they cease to reliably trigger.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2019, 07:12:59 pm »
Except from 2 GSa/s vs. 1 GSa/s and memory depth (28 vs. 7 Mpt/s):
Are there other main differences to justify a 200 $/€ difference in price?
(confessing: DSO rookie in the process of purchasing...)

28 vs. 14Mpts.
(acquisition time length equal when both use max samplerate, for same acqtime double samplerate need double memory))
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2019, 07:21:33 pm »
All the stuff that was only available to the 1104X-E is now available on the 2202X-E:

▪ 16 Digital channels (MSO) (option)
▪ Bode plot
▪ Search and navigate
▪ USB AWG module(option)
▪ USB WIFI adapter(option)
▪ Web Browser based control

- 50 ohm inputs in SDS2000X-E.  ETA: as also @tautech previously told (my old eyes..)
 
- also one tiny difference is that SDS2000X-E fastest time base is 500ps/div when SDS1000X-E have 1ns/div
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 12:00:06 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline sundance

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 04:48:46 pm »
About bode plot & controlling external AWGs:
Is it correct to assume that (if your external AWG is an SDG1032X) this is an included (free) function?
(from the manual: "Note: At this time, the Bode Plot function is only supported by SIGLENT SAG1021 and
SDG generator products."
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 07:07:00 pm »
About bode plot & controlling external AWGs:
Is it correct to assume that (if your external AWG is an SDG1032X) this is an included (free) function?
(from the manual: "Note: At this time, the Bode Plot function is only supported by SIGLENT SAG1021 and
SDG generator products."


Yes, just out from box. No need any option.

Just USB cable from scope to SDG1032X and signal cables, thats all.
When using SFRA (BodePlot) no need touch SDG (exept turn power on)
(of course need do some selections and adjustments in oscilloscope BodePlot menu and it may need some exercises before can get all out from it. Later BodePlot UI is perhaps somehow more user friendly, but because UI is not simplest possible still need some experience and training)


Two very simple examples (SDS1104X-E  and SDG1062X)

(without phase info because  REF (CH1) not in use at all - if no need - then no need)


1.1MHz XTAL resonance  (most of this price class scopes and even bit higher can not do this due to total lack of SFRA resolution for this kind of work. Here 500Hz span 1Hz steps.)



22.4MHz very simple coaxial cable (T) notch filter (signal roughly -5dBm)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 07:17:24 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Harmony OS
 

Offline Via3

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2019, 09:21:51 pm »
Attention this product SDS2202X-E is with lots of bugs, Sillent does not yet have solution for these problems.
I with one without being able to use, this is a beta product.

Ref. Does not recognize probes other than X1
Gate Measurement does not track low-frequency signals









Hardware defect, makes Bip signal capture without probes



« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 10:04:33 am by Via3 »
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2019, 05:23:01 am »
SDS2000X-E FW version.

it is bit weird. 17R6 is  second version after initial version 17R5
17R6  have date: 24. December 2018 !   But Siglent side there read: Release Date 03.27.19
And this is quite new product. Weird. Is it some mistake or some unexpected delay with more new FW .. who knows..

It looks bit like measurement gate time position is wrong and then least some error with probe attenuation math.
(I have seen bit this kind of (gate, cursors and probe factor) error in very early version perhaps  SDS1002X-E if I remember model right. )

Then just very small sidenote with  ;)
What is meaning in your one image where you have noted M 2.00ms/   with yours M2.00mS
Do you perhaps mean  2.00 milli siemens (it is mS) what is this doing with scope time axis?

Sorry but I'm bit frustrated these  everyday frequently repeated common mess with mhz, Khz, nS,  DB,   etc. Yes I know many peoples mix these with happy and so on but then after we start point out errors and advice/teaching others... it is bit different case.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline Via3

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2019, 09:26:29 am »
I mean that this defect appears when the time base was defending for 2mS / Div.
This is definitely a bad oscilloscope, it also has hardware problems that do not resolve with the firmware update.
I can explain in detail in Portuguese the defects found.
 
 

Offline sundance

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2019, 09:42:38 am »
It would be very interesting to read your experiences and bugs found with this scope.

 

Offline Via3

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2019, 10:08:32 am »
Ref. Does not recognize probes other than X1
Gate Measurement does not track low-frequency signals
Hardware defect, makes Bip signal capture without probes
 

Offline sundance

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2019, 10:26:31 am »
about the Bip signal w/o probes:
Did you capture that with open input connectors for both Channel 1 and 2?
1 Meg or 50 Ohms termination?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2019, 11:03:38 am »
Something doesn't make sense about this screenshot  :-//



At first glance I wouldn't trust any measurement ^ as being correct. Check the trigger level, settings and waveform.
Something is not right.

To help us understand the screenshots better we need to see the menu settings so use the blue Print button to save a screenshot and NOT the Save menu.
TIA.

You are welcome to use my contact email on my website for a detailed report that I can pass to the engineers to study.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2019, 11:32:44 am »
about the Bip signal w/o probes:
Did you capture that with open input connectors for both Channel 1 and 2?
1 Meg or 50 Ohms termination?

As can see his image and he also told without probe at at all. There Ch2 is coupled with 20MHz BW filter and coupling DC and with 1Mohm impedance (B DC1M). Also true input sensitivity is selected 500uV/div (input BNC level) as can see there selected probe factor 100x and with this 100x sensitivity in probe tip is 50mV/div (if 1:100 probe is in use) but he told no probe at all so there is open 1Mohm BNC input with 500uV/div sensitivity.

But then it looks in other image that measurement Gate is wrong position (displayed position is other than measurement position) and other FW bugs also 

For OP: second (time) unit symbols is  s, siemens (conductance)  unit symbol is  S. (  ;) )
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline Via3

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2019, 12:04:53 pm »
This image represents well the problem of measurements in GATE.
Probe X100
As you can see the cursor measurements are right.
Gate measurements are completely wrong,
This error only happens with low frequency signals.
 

Offline sundance

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2019, 12:15:30 pm »
Quote
(...) so there is open 1Mohm BNC input with 500uV/div sensitivity
That being said: Would it be possible that the open input at max. sensitivity just captured some external (rf) event (e.g. nearby cell phone)?
 

Offline Via3

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 12:41:40 pm »
It is not an external signal and a hardware problem already confirmed by Siglent.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2019, 01:03:20 pm »
Quote



Quoted from OP

I have better "bip" and this scope is sure in very good condition etc.
And, all inputs just open BNC's without anything connected and even more, no any  LF or HF EMI source what can do it.

 :wtf: my good scope is now bad and sick... perhaps it get infection when it see this "Bip" and this Bip virus or bacteria  attack. I think it need now drink lot of water and go to rest in bed.
It can produce many kind of "Bip" figures... bamboo chopstics are good, beans can also be used.


But yes it looks that SDS2000X-E (as OP show) have some bug with measurement Gate function and in some simply math related to probe multipliers. Some kind of mess.


But then back to real...seriously, for OP. ETA: Add bolding and cursived
Just return this bad unit back to seller as soon as possible and ask full refund or how you ever want, asap so that you can still use this opportunity and when it is in "new" condition just as it arrive and with all included as arrived.

Then just for fun: Here my better "Bip" it wins clearly OP's "Bip" (and my SDS1000X-E is very health in real life.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 01:11:13 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Harmony OS
 

Offline Via3

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2019, 02:27:00 pm »
I'm not talking about a bump on the BNC inputs, I'm talking about the internal beetle.
And I can report two more bugs related to GATE.
If you end the oscilloscope with the active GATE, when you reconnect the oscilloscope the GATE is dead.
And it can not be activated.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2019, 05:11:49 pm »
Here is SDS1104X-E  button beep.
So do not talk loud if you make sensitive measurements. Scope is listening.

In image traces 3 and 4 display is off for make image more simple. (they are still working behind, but there is not detectable "beep".)

Personally I do not think this is problem in cheap oscilloscope.
Of course if we do front "500uV" front end with less 1/f and wide band noise then construction need be very different. Also "microphonic"  need solve. Whole mechanical (and circuit) construction need be very different.
But in your image, what make this "bip". Do you mean it is this internal button beep. If not, is it somehow repetitive or random.

But then, as told before, why you do not return it if you feel there is too many problems. Why knock head to wall. Just don't turn someone else's problem to your own problem.  Why marry a bad wife and then use all the time to be able to criticize and bark her everywhere.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 05:28:09 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Harmony OS
 

Offline Via3

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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2019, 08:00:42 pm »
You can check
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ReSCXRxg8&feature=youtu.be

Yes, now it is clear. There is true problem. I have no idea if it is only your individual unit or if it is common in all units. So, Siglent need urgently investigate it and solve how to do..
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Harmony OS
 

Offline sundance

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2019, 05:33:51 pm »
@via3:
"A picture says more than a thousand words" now it's perfectly clear what you mean. Thanks for the video upload.
How does this situation change when there is a probe connected?
 

Offline Masterval

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Re: Comparing Siglent SDS2202X-E and SDS1202X-E
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2019, 09:29:35 pm »
Hello everyone.

Has anyone already tried the new FW?

Specifically version 1.1.19R2, according to release notes they solved some problems.
 


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