Considering a new Rigol DHO924 vs. Siglent SDS120X-E model - Any Bug stoppers?

[radiohomebrewer2000]

Hello,
There seems to be 2 topics related to the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 series scopes. 
One topic only allowS discussion of the bugs in the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 series scopes. The other seems about unboxing, teardown, and hacking. Neither topic seems suited to my question.

I heard there are bugs in the Rigol DH0924.  Technically, any new model from any electronics manufacturer will have bugs...  So, not a shocker.

Have the bugs been fixed?  Are they important? blockers?

I am no professional; I am just an amateur radio operator who likes to build and test radio equipment in the HF frequencies and below including audio frequencies.  So, are the bugs a blocker for an amateur who would only be doing common measurements, such as, measuring the frequency and voltage of a VFO?

I really like the FFT math function in the new scope.  Which is why i was also interested in the Siglent SDS-1204X-E.
But maybe I can get by with just a TinySA as a spectrum analyzer.  Sure, you can get a Siglnet SDS-1104X-E and hack it, but then you still need 4 count of 200 MHz probes. Pay that, you might as well have bought the SDS-1204X-E.  I really like the markers and table listing the peaks in FFT - very helpful for identifying the harmonics and if there are indeed down below enough to meet government regulations concerning transmitter emissions.

The new Siglent SDS800X HD series scopes look nice but past my budget of $700.  Besides, they just came out.  I would rather the professionals/experts find the bugs first.  As an amateur it is hard enough to know if I properly measured something vs. the device under test really does have such and such issue vs. some unknown bug. 

Yet, the Rigol DHO924 is a very nice looking scope with a lot of cool new features including a very nice FFT that gives Siglent a run for the money. 

So hard to chose between the two scopes which are around the same price right now in the USA.

Thanks in advance,
Daniel

[tautech]

Over some years I have really liked SDS1*04X-E however SDS800X HD is a big step forward and a next level product.

I can see my SN# 0012 SDS1104X-E gathering dust and SDS814X HD becoming my goto DSO despite access to much higher BW models.
Even the cheapest 70 MHz SDS804X HD seriously challenges the SDS1104X-E 100 MHz BW. 

You need compare the datasheets with more care.

[egonotto]

Hello,

I would consider a Siglent SDS804X HD and a version of the NanoVNA.

Best regards
egonotto

[thm_w]

Please read the existing threads and discussions if you can, there are many. There is really not much reason to buy a DHO900, its poor value. The choice would between DHO800 and SDS120X or the SDS800 HD model. Or some similar combination.

The DHO800 base and SDS800HD 4 channel base are both priced the same, $440.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho914s-vs-siglent-sds1104x-e-hands-on-(i-have-both)/

[radiohomebrewer2000]

OK.  I have been convinced to stick with Siglent.

To me 4 channel and 200 MHz are not something I have to have.  They are something nice.
So, I could get away with a 2-channel 100 MHz model.
Even though i am interested in HF frequencies and below (30 MHz and below), I probably will not be doing anything above 15 meters (21 MHz) anyways.  So, 100 MHz is good enough.  I am unsure about 2 or 4 channels though.

However, there is 2 features in the SDS1104X-E and SDS-1204X-E (4 channel scopes only) that are not on the SDS-1202X-E which is a 2-channel scope.
For FFT math, there is the very cool feature of peak markers and a table that lists those peaks.  I went "wow" when I saw those features. 

So, I have a question about the SDS800X HD series - in particular a model like SDS812X-E or SDS814X-E - can they do the peak markers and the table like the SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E can.  If not, I am not interested in the SDS800X HD series then. 

For the SDS800X HD, I think I have seen the peak markers in screenshots or videos (I could be wrong), but I have not seen the table of peaks.  Does someone have a screenshot of this?

I do know the price for the Siglent SDS-1204X-E when including the EEVblog coupon code at a place like Saelig in the US, the price is very nice...   

I have a TinySA and NanoVNA, but the screens are small. Plus, I have to get them out of their box when I use them. The scope would just stay on the desk to use immediately. 

Thanks ,
Daniel

[tautech]

You can find all you need to know in this post and excellent thread.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293765/#msg5293765

While the FFT screenshots are only showing a couple of markers, IIRC you can have 10.

[shapirus]

I am unsure about 2 or 4 channels though.

Just get 4, unless you have a *very* good reason not to. If you have them, you will need them sooner than you might think.

[skander36]

I don't see the reason to oscilate between DHO9xx and SDS120X-E. Siglent SDS120X-E is an old model (I had 1202X-E), poor construction and old, slow software.
What remain is DHO 9xx vs Siglent SDS800X-HD. But here again there is not much to choose. While Rigol is better in terms of hardware solution and inovation as well as design and physical contruction, Siglent is also better than Rigol in terms of software application, much better I can say. For me is a no brainer choose - Siglent SDS804X-HD is about 486E and can be "upgraded" to some extent.
(I have both SDS1000x-HD and DHO 1000, and in the past SDS1202X-E).
 

[baldurn]

Are you aware that the Siglent has a public key generator, so you can upgrade from sds804x hd to sds824x hd at no cost? Just beware that you only get 70 MHz probes with sds804x hd. It is still much cheaper to buy sds804x hd plus better probes.

The price difference between 2 and 4 port model is just 50 euro. Why not get the 4 port model but maybe only 2 upgraded probes (if you need them)?

804x hd is €409 plus 2x PP215 200 MHz probes at €30 = €469

[radiohomebrewer2000]

Video showing what I mean.  The link to the video starts in the middle of the video to show what I am talking about.   Siglent may not be advertising this even though it is included (or maybe not) because it is not a "new" feature.

https://youtu.be/2F-qECVs5L0?t=244

See the FFT Math - Marker type of Peak - Table - sort by amplitude

[KungFuJosh]

Video showing what I mean.  The link to the video starts in the middle of the video to show what I am talking about.   Siglent may not be advertising this even though it is included (or maybe not) because it is not a "new" feature.

https://youtu.be/2F-qECVs5L0?t=244

See the FFT Math - Marker type of Peak - Table - sort by amplitude

Rob responded- he said you can have up to 10 peak markers, and Performa01's thread shows a ton of examples, including the FFT peak markers you asked about.

BTW- don't buy Siglent probes. Check out probemaster.com for nicer probes if you need them.

[Fungus]

Hello,
There seems to be 2 topics related to the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 series scopes. 
One topic only allowS discussion of the bugs in the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 series scopes. The other seems about unboxing, teardown, and hacking. Neither topic seems suited to my question.

I heard there are bugs in the Rigol DH0924.

I wouldn't buy a DHO900, I would buy a DHO800.

You can get the cheapest model and "upgrade" it to any other in a few minutes over Ethernet.

The only thing I know that simply doesn't work is video triggering.

Apart from that everything else is minor annoyances. Some settings aren't remembered when you power off, serial decode needs you to set probe ratio to 1x for the threshold level to be displayed correctly. Half a dozen things on that level.

Apart from that it's awesome. I'll take those niggles over any old fashioned 'scope under $1000.

The future is here and I'm not going back.

[ebastler]

I wouldn't buy a DHO900, I would buy a DHO800. [...]
The only thing I know that simply doesn't work is video triggering.
Apart from that everything else is minor annoyances.

Since we have established that FFT is of specific interest to the OP, I think that alone tips the scales in favor of a Siglent scope in this case. The lack of FFT averaging and peak detect modes, sometimes inconsistent parameter settings, and dubious window functions are major drawbacks in Rigol's FFT implementation.

I highly recommend the new SDS804X HD, with the possibility to do a "free upgrade" to the 200 MHz SDS824X HD version. In that respect I agree with Fungus: "The future is here", including 12-bit and touch interface capability, so I would no longer buy the SDS1...X-E series.

Don't be deterred by the fact that the 800X HD series is new. The software is essentially the same as on the well-established higher end models, and actually is more mature than Rigol's DHO800/900 series. (Or Rigol's 1.5-year-old DHO1000 series, for that matter.) In fact, I have only seen one issue, in a rather exotic operating situation, described on the forum so far.

[tautech]

Video showing what I mean.  The link to the video starts in the middle of the video to show what I am talking about.   Siglent may not be advertising this even though it is included (or maybe not) because it is not a "new" feature.

https://youtu.be/2F-qECVs5L0?t=244

See the FFT Math - Marker type of Peak - Table - sort by amplitude

Sorry, been busy......
Zero signal but attached screenshot should give some idea of Marker capability and the FFT Tools menu.

[radiohomebrewer2000]

Thanks.  I am sold on a Siglent SDS800X-HD!

Great information and screenshots coming from Performa01, Tautech, and others.

Now, I am just thinking of the model.  I do not need the top model because I can "upgrade" later to a higher bandwidth but that would require buying scope probes that can handle that higher bandwidth.  Plus US$799 is too much for me to spend.

And finding an authorized Siglent seller in the USA that has the scopes in stock...  These scopes sell out fast when they get a few in stock I have noticed...

So, I have been eyeing Saelig but their site does not indicate in stock or not.  I may have to call them to find out.
Tequipment does indicate whether they are in stock or not.  But, with Saelig, I have their discount code from EEVBlog.

Amazon has a really good limited time deal for US$579 for their Siglent SDS1204X-E.  And if SDS800X HD series model had not come out, I would have already pounced on that!  No joke.

Some hams are telling me - I do not really need 4 channels, but get as much bandwidth as you can.  However, the 2-channel SDS800X HD scopes do not include a Ext trigger input.  Why did Siglent omit this?  So, I may need to go with 4-channel after all.   

I think 70 MHz should be good enough for ham bands like 80, 40, 30 - and just maybe 20m as well?  This would be 3.5 MHz, 7 MHz, 10 MHz, 14 MHz.   Sure, there are other HF bands (Shortwave) that would be interesting to build like a 15 meter (21 MHz) but these bands depend on good sun spots to be open.  Granted 2024 and 2025 are good years for sun spots.  I heard that the bandwidth of the scope should be 4 or 5 times the frequency you will measure. And then someone else said 10 times.

So, hopefully 70 MHz is good enough.  If not, I can always "upgrade" to 100 MHz or 200 MHz and get the scope probes for that.  And I do not necessarily have to get all 2 or 4 probes for 200 MHz.  Just get what I need for whatever scenario.

So, I am thinking of a SDS804X HD or SDS814X HD.  Well, at least I have seen the SDS814X HD in stock.  The others sell out quickly.

My current oscilloscope is a HP 54600B 100 MHz 2-channel digital oscilloscope.  Made in early 1990s I think.  I scored it off ebay for $55 in 2022.  Surprised it worked!  I have been eyeing the Siglent scopes for awhile though.

However, measuring a VFO signal above 2 MHz was not stable using my HP 54600.  The measurement bounced around - both the frequency and voltage.  I heard the Siglent SDS1000X-E scopes provide a more stable reading.  And I am hoping the SDS800X HD scopes provide even more stability.  So, if there is any big reason why I would get this scope - this is it!

Because the frequency from my HP 54600 scope was bouncing around, I had to switch to my HP 5314A frequency counter to measure a stable frequency.  Do not get me wrong - I am happy with my HP scope - it is my first scope.  And when I needed to see the waveform of my crystal tester I home brewed, it showed the wave form, frequency, and voltage.  The crystal tester was basically a Colpitts oscillator.

Or, I am not doing a measurement properly?  I just do not know.  I am an amateur after all.  But I do want to learn these things because I want to get to the point I can design my own radios.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,
- Daniel

[iMo]

@Daniel - the 54600 should work fine for watching your RF signals at all HF bands (considering its 100MHz BW). See my shots in the "54600A thread".
Your "VFO above 2MHz bounces around" - that could be easily caused by the construction of your VFO. Here you have to provide more info (ie in the RF, Microwave, Ham Radio section).

[baldurn]

Some hams are telling me - I do not really need 4 channels, but get as much bandwidth as you can.  However, the 2-channel SDS800X HD scopes do not include a Ext trigger input.  Why did Siglent omit this?  So, I may need to go with 4-channel after all.   

Those hams are saying that for only three reasons:

1) Their old boat anchor CRE only has two channels, so therefore it is enough.
2) They never touched anything modern electronics, not even a simple Arduino.
3) Their old boat anchor CRE can not do digital anyway.

You want 4 channels because it is needed to do protocol decodes. If you ever have a simple microcontroller project and need to figure out why the SPI communication is failing, you need this.

Even if you only want to do HAM stuff, unless you only want to work on restoring ancient radios, realise that radios all come with microcontrollers and digital internals these days. Especially all the kits that you can build.

I am going to recommend the SDS804XHD and 0, 1 or 2x Siglent PP215 200MHz probes. This combination is cheaper than SDS814XHD and gets you 200 MHz probes instead of 100 MHz probes. You can wait to buy the probes until you need them.

Remember that sometimes you will connect directly to the scope using a coax cable instead of probes and get the full bandwidth that way. Just make sure to have a through 50 ohm terminator for this purpose.

[Caliaxy]

Tequipment does indicate whether they are in stock or not.  But, with Saelig, I have their discount code from EEVBlog.

Be aware that there is an EEV blog discount code for Tequipment, too.

[mawyatt]

We get all our Siglent gear (11 instruments) from Saelig, including the new 814X HD. Their Siglent shipment arrived Friday 3/8 and they shipped out the same day which we received Monday 3/11.

Best,

[radiohomebrewer2000]

Baldurn, No.  The ham who mentioned he only needed 2 channels uses a Siglent SDS1202X-E scope as many other hams do.  But this 2-channel scope also has Ext trigger input as well.  The 800 series does not.  I was actually considering a SDS1000X-E series scope until I discovered the SDS800X HD series was being released to the West...  But you are correct about this ham not using microcontrollers.  But later, I will mentor him on them since he has been mentoring me on many homebrewing topics.  Last year, I built a VFO using a Arduino Nano, Si53531A clock synth IC, rotary encoder, and a i2c LCD Display, but I already knew Arduino since it was microcontrollers that got me into electronics in the first place.

Like iMo suggested, I will move my discussion of the ham radio stuff and measuring a VFO with an oscilloscope to the appropriate forums.

Thanks everyone for your replies.  I think I beat this topic to death.

[eTobey]

The good thing about siglent is also, you can download the firmware without a stupid login. I had to do this with the rigol, but their stupid login page was as buggy as their Oscilloscope. 

[alank2]

While Rigol is better in terms of hardware solution and inovation as well as design and physical contruction, Siglent is also better than Rigol in terms of software application

What is the general consensus about which unit is better built, the DHO800 series or the SDS800X HD series.  I saw the teardown of both of them, and honestly, it seemed to me like the Siglent was better built.  It had a full metal cage, real heat sinks on everything, it just seemed to my eye to be a higher quality build.  Am I wrong?  Do you guys think the DHO800 is better built?

[KungFuJosh]

While Rigol is better in terms of hardware solution and inovation as well as design and physical contruction, Siglent is also better than Rigol in terms of software application

What is the general consensus about which unit is better built, the DHO800 series or the SDS800X HD series.  I saw the teardown of both of them, and honestly, it seemed to me like the Siglent was better built.  It had a full metal cage, real heat sinks on everything, it just seemed to my eye to be a higher quality build.  Am I wrong?  Do you guys think the DHO800 is better built?

There are two positives for the Rigol: HDMI out and VESA mounting. That's it. Those don't matter to me, but some people prefer it.

Look at the demo thread for the Siglent, it's outstanding: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

[eTobey]

That VESA mount is actually stupid: It is very likely that you would block the air flow for the fan. 

[shapirus]

What is the general consensus about which unit is better built, the DHO800 series or the SDS800X HD series.  I saw the teardown of both of them, and honestly, it seemed to me like the Siglent was better built.  It had a full metal cage, real heat sinks on everything, it just seemed to my eye to be a higher quality build.  Am I wrong?  Do you guys think the DHO800 is better built?

I own the DHO804, and it's a half-toy really. Lots of dumb engineering decisions, both hardware and software (*especially* the latter). I bought it because: a) it's easily hacked to unlock full bandwidth; b) it's quite compact; c) it's cheap; d) it's readily available on aliexpress, and that's the only place where I can buy *any* scope for a reasonable price without an x2-x3 multiplier; e) I was ready to modify certain things such as add an external 120mm fan. And of course because its primary functions work quite well. But overall it leaves an impression that the only part in it that was designed by professionals who knew what they were doing is the analog frontend.

p.s. I still like it. It's an ugly duckling.

[radiohomebrewer2000]

Sadly, I have not found any USA sellers that have the Siglent SDS804X HD in stock.
I have found places that have the higher priced models in stock though.

[eTobey]

You better go with the higher prised ones.

Today i could not activate Ultraacquire, because some other function blocked it. Could not find which one. You need quite a checklist to figure out. Or restart and wait 53 seconds. Maybe it was a bug.

On another occasion, it just froze up. Thats about 1-2 crashes a day...

[baldurn]

You better go with the higher prised ones.

Today i could not activate Ultraacquire, because some other function blocked it. Could not find which one. You need quite a checklist to figure out. Or restart and wait 53 seconds. Maybe it was a bug.

On another occasion, it just froze up. Thats about 1-2 crashes a day...

There is no UltraAcquire as that is a Rigol thing. I am thinking we are a bit confused about which device we are talking about here? radiohomebrewer2000 is looking for the Siglent SDS804X HD not the Rigol DHO924.

[2N3055]

You better go with the higher prised ones.

Today i could not activate Ultraacquire, because some other function blocked it. Could not find which one. You need quite a checklist to figure out. Or restart and wait 53 seconds. Maybe it was a bug.

On another occasion, it just froze up. Thats about 1-2 crashes a day...

There is no UltraAcquire as that is a Rigol thing. I am thinking we are a bit confused about which device we are talking about here? radiohomebrewer2000 is looking for the Siglent SDS804X HD not the Rigol DHO924.

What I think is what he meant is that OP should buy SDS814xHD even at higher price because his Rigol was so infuriating...

[eTobey]

What I think is what he meant is that OP should buy SDS814xHD even at higher price because his Rigol was so infuriating...

Youre spot on!
I actually bought the DHO814, because i read the DHO914 was more buggy (it seemed).

[DaneLaw]

You better go with the higher prised ones.

Today i could not activate Ultraacquire, because some other function blocked it. Could not find which one. You need quite a checklist to figure out. Or restart and wait 53 seconds. Maybe it was a bug.

On another occasion, it just froze up. Thats about 1-2 crashes a day...

There is no UltraAcquire as that is a Rigol thing. I am thinking we are a bit confused about which device we are talking about here? radiohomebrewer2000 is looking for the Siglent SDS804X HD not the Rigol DHO924.

The emphasize on almost a minute in bootup time, do sound like a Rigol thing.

[shapirus]

The emphasize on almost a minute in bootup time, do sound like a Rigol thing.

Sometimes more. I notice that when it boots longer than normal, it also boots up being not connected to wifi.
There are apparently good hardware designers and FPGA programmers at Rigol, but they can't (or don't care to) find decent UI designers and userspace software developers.

[radiohomebrewer2000]

Is there a way to mark a topic as resolved? 

I ordered the Siglent SDS814X HD from Saelig since the lower priced scopes were out of stock.  And I got notification it has been shipped and expect it next week.   

Sorry for posting double-posting this in another topic.  But I thought I would clear things up here.   This scope should work fine for me.  And if I need 200 MHz, I can "upgrade" it to 200 MHz and buy the 200 MHz scope probes I need - I do not have to get 4 probes at once.  Based on the feeling of confidence of others about this scope on these EEVBlog forums, I think I made the right choice.

The FFT Math feature with its peaks and table look really cool.   And I like how sharp it looks.  But like how another person on this site said - the scope is the main tool to get frequency and voltage for audio and RF - the multimeter is to be mainly used for DC, continuity, and resistance.  I agree with that.  Not the exact words the person used.

Does the SDS800X HD series have a built-in frequency counter so it can display a stable frequency measurement? 

I am referring to the numbers - not waveform displayed - example:  2.345 MHz.  And does it have a stable voltage measurement as well - example: 850mVp-p?  Again, only talking about the numbers - not waveform.    I ask because my old HP digital scope bounces around - the numbers - not waveform displayed.  I have recently been told ways to make it stable on my old scope - like turn average on.   Please do not reply here about this old HP scope - I created a topic for that on another EEVBlog forum at the suggestion of another person on here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/how-to-get-a-stable-measure-of-v-and-freq-using-an-oscilloscope-on-a-vfo/

Oh by the way, I have been eyeing Siglent scopes since 2022, but I decided to buy an old used HP digital scope for $55 to break myself into learning it at the time.  And if I did not really get into, I only wasted $55.  But I have really jumped into this now...  So, time to move up to a nicer scope as a reward to myself.   

Thank you everyone for your replies.

[KungFuJosh]

Edit the subject of your first post and it will show whatever you add for the thread title. People will still respond anyway though. 😉

[mawyatt]

The spec sheet should tell you the worst case "numbers" wrt accuracy.

With a 100KHz Sinewave @-20dBm from a SDG6022X our 814 shows 100.0011KHz on the counter and -19.965dBm with a cheap 50 ohm terminator, so good enough for our needs at the moment.

Best,

[tautech]

Does the SDS800X HD series have a built-in frequency counter so it can display a stable frequency measurement? 

Yes top right in every screenshot and you can engage additional from the Measure menu to whatever suits your requirements and have Statistics and Histograms displayed for each.

See:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293750/#msg5293750

[baldurn]

The spec sheet should tell you the worst case "numbers" wrt accuracy.

The datasheet specifies 25 ppm. Which means that if a HAM was to measure his 145 MHz transceiver, he might be as much as 3625 Hz off. That is 29% of the channel spacing on that band.

[eTobey]

There are apparently good hardware designers and FPGA programmers at Rigol, but they can't (or don't care to) find decent UI designers and userspace software developers.

My guess is, that they have UI designers, but those have no clue about electronics. If they would release their sourcecode (they use 60 packages of opensource anyway), they would gain quite a bit of a lead. But then they would be hated by other manufacturers, so i guess they try to keep their "friendship" with them.