Author Topic: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?  (Read 16622 times)

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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2023, 02:48:27 pm »
It was bumped now by the user LinuxHata, that express rejection of online solutions.

I didn't see anything saying no networked solutions. If the classroom has ethernet, and the projector is smart, or connected to anything like a computer (which is common) then a web interface is a really easy solution, and doesn't require the projector being directly tied to the scope. Which is usually a good thing.

This is the #1 feature lacking from Siglent mid-range scopes. Rigol MSO5000 has it. It's not something I've seen on any low-end scopes.

I agree, some people might want that feature, but it doesn't feel missing when the web interface is so simple to use and fast. It's better functionality than just an output screen that still leaves you tied to the scope.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 02:51:53 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2023, 03:26:48 pm »
This is the #1 feature lacking from Siglent mid-range scopes.
Not quite true. SDS6000A has HDMI.
 

Offline LinuxHata

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2023, 06:23:28 am »
There is no ethernet in classroom, wifi and cellular networks are being jammed, to prevent misuse of various gadgets by students.

All your proposals are good, but very expensive - I was looking for something like DSO2C10, but with VGA or HDMI output. So As I see, that old way of doing LVDS<>HDMI connection seems to be the cheapest way.
 

Offline J-R

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2023, 07:35:52 am »
I highly doubt cellular is jammed, as that is very much illegal and can land you in jail.
 
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Online pdenisowski

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2023, 02:21:53 pm »
There is no ethernet in classroom, wifi and cellular networks are being jammed, to prevent misuse of various gadgets by students.

I highly doubt cellular is jammed, as that is very much illegal and can land you in jail.

I spent many years (professionally) tracking down radio frequency jammers in the field across the United States.  If you're jamming in licensed cellular spectrum, the odds are very good that the cellular network operator will detect high uplink RSSI levels and will (eventually) send someone out to investigate. 

If they find you*, they will probably first try to talk to you and/or send you a polite, but firmly-worded letter letting you know that you're interfering with them.  Either of these are (in my experience) usually sufficient to get the "offender" to stop using their jammer, and thus the FCC rarely gets involved in these cases. 

On the other hand, if you are jamming GPS, certain aeronautical navigational aids, automobile remotes, or emergency frequencies (police, fire, marine channel 16, etc.), then it is much more likely that someone working for Uncle Sam will come looking for you.  I could (but probably shouldn't) tell you some very interesting stories.

And if you're jamming unlicensed spectrum (like WiFi, ISM, etc.) it's extremely unlikely that anything is going to happen to you. 

Again, just my experience spending many years doing this on almost a weekly basis.

*Edit:  in order to be effective, a jammer must produce a signal that is wide, loud, and always on.  This also makes them VERY easy to locate.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2023, 02:24:34 pm by pdenisowski »
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Offline colorado.rob

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2023, 08:45:01 pm »
This is the #1 feature lacking from Siglent mid-range scopes.
Not quite true. SDS6000A has HDMI.
I don't consider the SDS6000A one of Siglent's mid-range scopes. It is, in fact, one of Siglent's top-of-the-line scopes.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2023, 09:16:43 pm »
I don't consider the SDS6000A one of Siglent's mid-range scopes. It is, in fact, one of Siglent's top-of-the-line scopes.
SDS7000A is in advanced development.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2023, 10:43:49 pm »
This is the #1 feature lacking from Siglent mid-range scopes.

In the "scope world", mid-range is not the priceclass you may have in mind... ;)
But that doesn't change the fact that siglent doesn't offer something as simple as video output until the SDS5000X series, and then only in the antique VGA format.
Even my (developmentally) 4 years younger HD model doesn't even have VGA (and costs the same as the entry model from the 5000 series).
There are people who value a video output on still affordable scopes, they will have to look elsewhere.
They won't find anything at siglent, but maybe siglent will realize that at some point and counteract accordingly.
Personally, this does not bother me, if I wanted to present something, I would use the web interface.

Offline skander36

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2023, 10:56:04 pm »
It was bumped now by the user LinuxHata, that express rejection of online solutions.

I didn't see anything saying no networked solutions. If the classroom has ethernet, and the projector is smart, or connected to anything like a computer (which is common) then a web interface is a really easy solution, and doesn't require the projector being directly tied to the scope. Which is usually a good thing.


No I don't need any online kind of connectivity.
One solution which I have used in past, but which requires a lot of yada-yada is to buy specialized LVDS 2 HDMI converter, which connects between the screen and the host, captures the LVDS data and sends it over HDMI.

I'll check these offerings, thanks.

 

Offline Someone

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2023, 11:26:58 pm »
I highly doubt cellular is jammed, as that is very much illegal and can land you in jail.
Where cellular communication sometimes is jammed.

OP is asking for a unicorn, lowest price, exact feature match, no compromises, wasting others times.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2023, 07:46:40 am »
This is the #1 feature lacking from Siglent mid-range scopes.
Not quite true. SDS6000A has HDMI.
I don't consider the SDS6000A one of Siglent's mid-range scopes. It is, in fact, one of Siglent's top-of-the-line scopes.
It might be Siglents top of the line scope, but that doesn't alter the fact that it still is a midrange scope, albeit an upper midrange one.

"Midrange" is an absolute term, indepedent of the manufacturer. Or would you, for instance, call a 200 MHz entry level scope from, say, GWI a "midrange" scope, just because their top offer is a short memory 300 MHz instrument, which you then consider to be "high end"?


 

Offline Someone

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2023, 08:11:27 am »
"Midrange" is an absolute term, indepedent of the manufacturer.
If it is absolute then you should be able to define yes?

As an example:
LeCroy Corporation, a leading supplier of oscilloscopes, protocol analyzers and serial data test solutions, today announced the launch of WaveRunner 6 Zi, its newest mid-range oscilloscope series
WaveRunner 6 Zi Oscilloscopes - 400 MHz–4 GHz (in 2011 they were calling that mid-range)

Quote from: MSO5000B, DPO5000B Series Datasheet https://www.tek.com/en/datasheet/mixed-signal-oscilloscopes
Tektronix Mid-range Oscilloscopes
Need more performance or have other application needs? Consider the DPO7000, MDO4000, or MDO3000 series.
Tek cover quite the span for mid-range.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 08:15:45 am by Someone »
 

Offline Messtechniker

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2023, 08:45:10 am »
My good old HMO1022 (now discontinued) has a jolly good DVI output.
Good to have when you have visitors in the lab.

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Offline Performa01

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2023, 11:55:21 am »
"Midrange" is an absolute term, indepedent of the manufacturer.
If it is absolute then you should be able to define yes?
Of course, like with cars, classes are not always sharply defined.

Yet there is a consensus about the main requirements for the various scope classes, mainly bandwidth, probe interface, math & measurements, available applications and software platform.

In this case it's quite simple and a single criterion is sufficient to know where to put the SDS6000. Above mid-range there is high-end. And today's high-end scopes are DSOs running on a PC platform. I'm not aware of a single high-end scope running an embedded platform. On the other hand, there are some upper midrange scopes running on a PC platform.

Now that it is clear that the SDS6000 isn't a high-end scope, how can we know it isn't just an entry level scope? Well, the answer shouldn't be hard either. 2 GHz bandwidth, active probe interface, Eye diagram and jitter measurement applications - all these are dead giveaways that this is not entry level anymore.

As an example:
LeCroy Corporation, a leading supplier of oscilloscopes, protocol analyzers and serial data test solutions, today announced the launch of WaveRunner 6 Zi, its newest mid-range oscilloscope series
WaveRunner 6 Zi Oscilloscopes - 400 MHz–4 GHz (in 2011 they were calling that mid-range)
They would call this "mid-range" even today. I don't see why these things should have changed during the past 12 years.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2023, 12:00:09 pm by Performa01 »
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2023, 12:10:54 pm »
In the "scope world", mid-range is not the priceclass you may have in mind... ;)
But that doesn't change the fact that siglent doesn't offer something as simple as video output until the SDS5000X series, and then only in the antique VGA format.
SDS6000 has HDMI, not VGA - and thankfully so for its screen resolution is 1280 x 800.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2023, 12:20:34 pm »
"Midrange" is an absolute term, indepedent of the manufacturer.
If it is absolute then you should be able to define yes?
Of course, like with cars, classes are not always sharply defined.

Yet there is a consensus about the main requirements for the various scope classes, mainly bandwidth, probe interface, math & measurements, available applications and software platform.

In this case it's quite simple and a single criterion is sufficient to know where to put the SDS6000. Above mid-range there is high-end. And today's high-end scopes are DSOs running on a PC platform. I'm not aware of a single high-end scope running an embedded platform. On the other hand, there are some upper midrange scopes running on a PC platform.

Now that it is clear that the SDS6000 isn't a high-end scope, how can we know it isn't just an entry level scope? Well, the answer shouldn't be hard either. 2 GHz bandwidth, active probe interface, Eye diagram and jitter measurement applications - all these are dead giveaways that this is not entry level anymore.
How can it be absolute if the definition is not sharp? That is plainly contradictory. Mid-range is relative (changes depending on competition/market/pricing) and not absolute.

I'm not disagreeing with any conclusion you come to about the SDS6000 because there are no agreed definitions. To say high end requires PC platform, but at the same time that is required but not sufficient such that mid range may or may not have that or any specific bandwidth/features/etc just proves the point. There is no agreement or widespread understanding/definition of low-end mid-range or high-end.

As an example:
LeCroy Corporation, a leading supplier of oscilloscopes, protocol analyzers and serial data test solutions, today announced the launch of WaveRunner 6 Zi, its newest mid-range oscilloscope series
WaveRunner 6 Zi Oscilloscopes - 400 MHz–4 GHz (in 2011 they were calling that mid-range)
They would call this "mid-range" even today. I don't see why these things should have changed during the past 12 years.
40GS/s and runs Windows, yet mid-range? other people would disagree, particularly 12 years ago as that sort of front end performance used to be limited to very few instruments/manufacturers. People can add these labels and categories all they like, but it's still mostly meaningless.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2023, 12:33:48 pm »
"Mid range" varies by brand.

Most brands have a lineup with 1000-series, a 2000-series, a 3000 series ... , an 8000 series, etc.

A 4000-series Rigol is a "mid range Rigol" but it won't be as powerful or in the same price bracket as a "mid-range Lecroy".

Similarly, an "entry-level" 4-channel R&S is going to be much better (and more expensive) than an "entry level"  Rigol DS1054Z.
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2023, 02:44:59 pm »
"Midrange" is an absolute term, indepedent of the manufacturer.
If it is absolute then you should be able to define yes?
Of course, like with cars, classes are not always sharply defined.

Yet there is a consensus about the main requirements for the various scope classes, mainly bandwidth, probe interface, math & measurements, available applications and software platform.

In this case it's quite simple and a single criterion is sufficient to know where to put the SDS6000. Above mid-range there is high-end. And today's high-end scopes are DSOs running on a PC platform. I'm not aware of a single high-end scope running an embedded platform. On the other hand, there are some upper midrange scopes running on a PC platform.

Now that it is clear that the SDS6000 isn't a high-end scope, how can we know it isn't just an entry level scope? Well, the answer shouldn't be hard either. 2 GHz bandwidth, active probe interface, Eye diagram and jitter measurement applications - all these are dead giveaways that this is not entry level anymore.
How can it be absolute if the definition is not sharp? That is plainly contradictory. Mid-range is relative (changes depending on competition/market/pricing) and not absolute.

I'm not disagreeing with any conclusion you come to about the SDS6000 because there are no agreed definitions. To say high end requires PC platform, but at the same time that is required but not sufficient such that mid range may or may not have that or any specific bandwidth/features/etc just proves the point. There is no agreement or widespread understanding/definition of low-end mid-range or high-end.
Oh yes - I've just learnt that.

As an example:
LeCroy Corporation, a leading supplier of oscilloscopes, protocol analyzers and serial data test solutions, today announced the launch of WaveRunner 6 Zi, its newest mid-range oscilloscope series
WaveRunner 6 Zi Oscilloscopes - 400 MHz–4 GHz (in 2011 they were calling that mid-range)
They would call this "mid-range" even today. I don't see why these things should have changed during the past 12 years.
40GS/s and runs Windows, yet mid-range? other people would disagree, particularly 12 years ago as that sort of front end performance used to be limited to very few instruments/manufacturers. People can add these labels and categories all they like, but it's still mostly meaningless.
You can disagree with LeCroy as much as you like. Possibly even 12 years ago, 4 GHz max. bandwidth was just not enough for the "high end" label, even though all other requirements for "high end" (for which there is no widespread understanding) would be met.

Btw, the fact that very few instruments/manufacturers are able to deliver top notch performance hasn't changed either. This is the whole reason why up to now, only these few companies are able to offer high-end gear (where there is no widespread understanding).

Now that even our top expert has chimed in and educates us that the Rigol 4000 simple scope is midrange, I give up and will stop derailing this thread.

All I wanted was to make it clear that Siglent does have a midrange scope (where there is no widespread understanding) with HDMI.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2023, 05:09:37 pm »
The recent activity in this thread gave me a great idea for a band name: "The Pedantic Semantics."  :popcorn:
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Offline Whitefoot

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2023, 05:16:34 pm »
The Owon SDS7102V is 100MHz two channel with VGA output. About $400 new. The VGA is optional, indicated by the V in the model nr.

VGA output is 800 X 600 pixel, same as the scope screen. This is good enough for a VGA monitor, but I don't know how it would look projected.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2023, 09:23:47 pm »
Quote
You can disagree with LeCroy as much as you like.

We´ve spend over 25k € for two lecroy scopes, a waverunner 9054 and a HDO6034A.
With a fat discount of 42% and yet that is upper middle class in their hierarchy.
Above there are the "Wave Pro" (up to 8Ghz and 5Gpoints memory) and of course the "Lab Master" (up to 65Ghz and 80 channels).
Or another example:
HDO4000A series...
Under HDO6000A(B) and Waverunner, here a price:

https://www.digikey.de/en/products/detail/teledyne-lecroy/HDO4054A-MS/7200922

That´s their middleclass.. ;)

Offline LinuxHata

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2023, 12:16:55 pm »
I'm not into technical details how it is done, but there no bluetooth, no wifi and no cellular data transmission working. And students are required to leave their gadgets in a special locker, before entering the class.

P.S. That classroom is not in US.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2023, 02:12:46 pm »
I wonder if a crossover ethernet cable would work directly from the PC to the scope?
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2023, 03:45:05 pm »
I wonder if a crossover ethernet cable would work directly from the PC to the scope?

I'm sure Aliexpress has a dozen pocket routers to choose from if not.
 

Online pdenisowski

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Re: Decent Oscilloscope with VGA/HDMI out?
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2023, 03:51:35 pm »
I wonder if a crossover ethernet cable would work directly from the PC to the scope?

If you need a crossover cable to connect a PC to your scope, you need either a new PC or a new scope :)

Almost all modern Ethernet interfaces support auto MDI-X, which allows most pairs of devices to communicate without needing a crossover cable.

I worked on Ethernet when Token Ring and FDDI were "competitors" to it, and I certainly don't miss having to color-code my cables so I could visually determine which ones were crossover cables (red seems to have been the convention).  One of my first troubleshooting steps when nodes wouldn't link up was to hold both plugs next to each other and check the order of the colors attached to the pins.

(sigh)  Good times :)


« Last Edit: August 19, 2023, 05:21:08 pm by pdenisowski »
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