Decided to Buy Brymen 869s - Help Me Avoid Buyers Remorse

[Majorassburn]

OK, I was going to buy a bench meter for high DC accuracy but all the biggies have shortcomings like frequent need for re-cal, display life, variety of testing capabilities, size, delivery time and COST, etc..

I sold my bench meter last year so now I want at least 4.5 digits with USEFUL LSD accuracy (like +/- a couple digits, NOT +/- 40 to 60, etc.)

So, I researched Fluke, Keysight and Brymen handhelds and found acceptable DC accuracy with much lower cost than bench types. 

A)  I own Fluke 87V's and 289's (Battery Eaters) and they don't fit my upgrade desires.
B)  I ruled out Keysight 1282A's because 5-6 weeks delivery is just plain silly too long.
C)  I looked at the overwhelming & confusing array of Brymens and the Brymen 869s seems to be the best fit for me based upon my on-line research and how well this blog regards them.

So, here's my dilemma:
1)  For all practical purposes, buying a Brymen in the U.S. is a one-way purchase. You better like what you get because there's no sending one back for a quick & easy exchange or refund and there's zero factory support.
2)  Am I missing something in my research like, is there another Brymen model or another brand that I should consider as a PROVEN high-accuracy handheld?
3)  When I buy a Brymen 869s, what source do you recommend based on your direct knowledge/experience of dealing with them re: Brymen meters?
4)  Anything else you might think of that would reduce my pre-purchase anxiety? 
Thanks for any help you can offer.

[tszaboo]

It's a good meter.
Everything will be OK.
You are smart strong and beautiful.

[Majorassburn]

It's a good meter.
Everything will be OK.
You are smart strong and beautiful.

Ooooh! That make me feel so good! 
Now, can you be a little more specific to my dilemma?  Thanks. 

[DaJMasta]

I've had a BM867s for like a decade now, bought it through TME and imported, only issue I've encountered is that in recent years the range switch on volts can stop just a tiny bit off of the actual stopping point, requiring a jiggle to get it to settle on the right spot and read, but only when first changing the switch.  I think I'm on my second set of batteries (though I'm not one to leave it on and it's not the only meter.)

It's a good meter.
Everything will be OK. 

[IanB]

If you are really concerned about warranty and local sales support, Greenlee sell the BM869s under their own brand name as the DM860a:

https://www.greenlee.com/us/en/dmm-500k-counts-dm-860a-dm-860a

That said, I got my BM869s from TME and everything was fine with the purchase.

An occasional sample might be faulty on delivery, but on the whole Brymen have good design quality and good manufacturing quality control. It is rare for there to be a problem with a meter.

[ejeffrey]

Given that you sold a functional bench meter last year, have fluke meters, and are dithering this much over getting the "right" meter I wouldn't let a shipping delay deter me from the meter I actually wanted.

I've never used the 869s but I have used other brymen meters and I've always been happy with their overall performance.  If you want US based service get the Greenley equivalents.

[shapirus]

C)  I looked at the overwhelming & confusing array of Brymens and the Brymen 869s seems to be the best fit for me based upon my on-line research and how well this blog regards them.

Make damn sure that you'll be satisfied with the accuracy, including the LSD uncertainty, specified in the manual, to avoid any post-purchase disappointment.

In short, and I believe it's not specific to the 869s, but is the case with pretty much any DMM, at least the handheld ones, the value you see in the LSD is not about accuracy, it's about resolution. It will allow you to track changes in the values you measure, but the accuracy spec will typically mean that the LSD, at least to a significant extent of its range, is in the uncertainty region.

The 869s is excellent for electronics (and electric as well) work and hobby, and accuracy is good for many or most practical purposes, including microamp measurements or hundreds of kHz AC volts measurements etc. But if you're into metrology and volt-nuttery, then probably not so much, and you'll be better off with an expensive multi-digit bench DMM.

There are very few things that are either questionable or poor about the 869s:

1) the 9V battery -- I personally think it's actually an advantage, as it's less prone to leakage than your typical AA or AAA, and there are rechargeable lithium batteries in this form factor that do not have a switching converter inside, with the 2 cells in series connected directly to the output. Even though it starts at below 9V (fully charged at 2*4.2V = 8.4V, which quickly drops to the plateau at 2*3.7V = 7.4V), it still provides a very, very long time of operation before you see the low battery icon;

2) slow update rate in the AC+DC measurement mode: 1 Hz or so (5 Hz, IIRC, otherwise); I'm not sure how other meters perform in this mode, maybe they're all like this;

3) range finding is not slow, but I would prefer it to be faster; again, not sure if the competitors are better, and how much so, if they are;

4) same for measuring large capacitors, but again same thing about comparing with the competitors;

5) you have to remove the back lid (and damage the warranty seal covering one of the screws, if present) to replace the fuses;

6) the fuses are good and properly selected, but because of this they are also expensive (but there are cheaper offerings of allegedly original bussmann fuses on aliexpress -- and they do look and feel the same as the originals) -- but again this equally applies to any of the comparable competitors and is dictated by technical necessity;

7) no publicly available information on readjustment procedures, which sucks, and no, this time I'm not gonna compare this with any of the competitors: this information must be free regardless of what the competitors do, there's no excuse and no technical reason for the manufacturer to be failing to disclose it -- it's a political decision;

can't light up white LEDs. The max diode threshold voltage it can output/measure is quite low by todays standards;

9) very short backlight timeout in older firmware revisions, but this only matters if you get an older used unit -- anything produced in the last, I think, 4 years or so must be fine.

That's pretty much it. Maybe there was another minor annoyance or two, but I can't remember anything right now.

p.s. dual display and dual temperature measurement support *are* cool.

p.p.s.

only issue I've encountered is that in recent years the range switch on volts can stop just a tiny bit off of the actual stopping point, requiring a jiggle to get it to settle on the right spot and read

Yes this too! The switch could have been a little more snappy to lock in position. I got used to it and don't really notice it, neither it is of any practical impact, but yes, it's there. Maybe could be fixed with some grease in the right spot and/or a stiffer spring loading whatever works for the snapping into position (a ball, I would guess), but for me it's nowhere near the level of annoyance which would warrant taking it apart and seeing how it works and if it could be improved.

p.p.p.s. Buying the 869s today won't stop you from buying yet another DMM (a bench one likely) in the future, so it's not really a dilemma. You're already hooked, admit it and go get the 869s: it's a good meter, and you'll always find a task where you need more than one meter at the same time.

[eloso]

Not too long ago I was making a decision between the BM869S and the BM789.   In my case the balance fell ever so slightly to the 789 principally because of its more practical weight/size, the Autohold, the Lo z and just a general feel from reading a lot of opinions that maybe it was somehow, in a nebulous kind of way, more modern and perhaps "better". 

There are of course important specs of the 869S that are better than the 789 - No doubt about it. Principally the higher count on DC and the PC connection facilities. 

So I guess all I am saying is that obviously both are highly thought of meters, but if the original poster doesn't mind taking a bit more time to make a very careful comparison - line by line of these two models,  the OP will make it even less likely that a slight case of buyer's remorse is in the offing. 

Regards

Eloso

p.s. after a few months now with the 789 I can say I am very happy with it. A perfect fit for my own needs.

[Majorassburn]

If you are really concerned about warranty and local sales support, Greenlee sell the BM869s under their own brand name as the DM860a:

https://www.greenlee.com/us/en/dmm-500k-counts-dm-860a-dm-860a

That said, I got my BM869s from TME and everything was fine with the purchase.

An occasional sample might be faulty on delivery, but on the whole Brymen have good design quality and good manufacturing quality control. It is rare for there to be a problem with a meter.

Thanks very much to all for their input and a super thanks to you for letting me know about the Greenlee.  I'm just calculating the AC & DC accuracy specs and uncertainties because they are called out differently by Brymen and Greenlee.

Also, considering the TME source. Thanks. I'll post back here my ultimate move...

[mwb1100]

I have purchased a few Brymen meters (though not a BM869s) from welectron.com.  Overall I think my Brymen meters are great.  The only problems I have with any of them (and neither applies to the BM869s AFAIK) is that some have a weak diode mode - won't light up some LEDs - and some have a short backlight timeout.

welectron is a great vendor:

  - the few questions I've asked have been answered quickly and completely
  - they have very reasonable shipping rates to the US - and for certain items such as most (all?) multimeters and oscilloscopes the shipping to the US is 10 EUR!  They ship via DHL, which I thought would be a detriment but every time I've gotten a shipment from welectron it arrived in less than a week with no fuss.
  - no VAT or sales tax is charged when shipping to the US
  - there's a 5% discount available to eevblog readers - just ask in a message to welectron (the discount is valid on nearly everything I've shopped for but not 100% of them)

Regarding the BM869s, the only complaint I can recall pretty much anyone having about it is that it is too big/heavy for them.  Note: the BM869s should light up blue and white LEDs, but since the diode range is limited to 2V it will only show "OL" on the screen for the voltage drop.

It looks like you'd pay about $150 more for the Greenlee DM-860A in order to get a US-supported (with lifetime warranty) version of the BM869s.

[shapirus]

The only problems I have with any of them (and neither applies to the BM869s AFAIK) is that some have a weak diode mode - won't light up som LEDs)

To put some numbers, my BM869s outputs up to 2.94 V in diode mode into a 10 MOhm (another DMM) load. Not enough for some (typically white) LEDs.

[Bud]

Be an adult, make your choice, and do not sweat over it.

[Majorassburn]

Be an adult, make your choice, and do not sweat over it.

Right-O. I'm buying the 869s instead of the Greenlee version because of the price difference and because the two lowest price sellers of the Greenlee are a telephone operation hiding behind a website based on a side street in Las Vegas!
I'll probably go with TME and/or Welectron. P.S. The bulkiness won't matter - its gonna live on a prototype design bench until our new Keithley DMM6500 gets delivered.

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I appreciate all of your comments. I'll let you know how much I love my new Brymen after I get it. 

[J-R]

The Keysight 1282A is easy to get from any number of top tier online sellers like Mouser.  For the money, I would suggest one from eBay then ship it out for calibration + data.

Greenlee is equally easy to find from any number of online sellers: https://www.greenlee.com/us/en/dmm-500k-counts-dm-860a-dm-860a
Probably just go here: https://www.tequipment.net/Greenlee/DM-860A/Multimeters/

But I agree, the Greenlee price is a bit steep.  It's better for someone who needs local support.

[HKJ]

Brymen meters are good meters, if BM869 work for you is up to you, read the specifications. It is not a cheap Chinese meter.

I do like Brymen meters, but they are not Fluke. What do I mean by that?
Most Fluke meters have a very good and simple user interface (289 excluded), they are very precise, they have very good specifications and are tested to handle anything you can throw at them. Brymen do not have as good user interface, mostly because they support more functionality, they have even better specifications that Fluke, but they lack the history of reliability that Fluke have.
I like and adore Fluke and wish more brand would make meters that match Fluke, but Brymen wins easily as a advanced meter as long as your do not demand a simple user interface (Again excluding 289).
If I had to equipment a couple of people with meters would I select Fluke or Brymen? If a standard Fluke meter could do it (Not 289), I would select Fluke, because it is much easier to teach people to use a Fluke meter, than a Brymen meter, even though the Brymen is technically best. $100 (or a bit more) is not really significant in that calculation, what is required is a simple meter that can do the job (Fluke excels in that) .

[shapirus]

Brymen meters are good meters, if BM869 work for you is up to you, read the specifications. It is not a cheap Chinese meter.

I do like Brymen meters, but they are not Fluke. What do I mean by that?
Most Fluke meters have a very good and simple user interface (289 excluded), they are very precise, they have very good specifications and are tested to handle anything you can throw at them. Brymen do not have as good user interface, mostly because they support more functionality, they have even better specifications that Fluke, but they lack the history of reliability that Fluke have.
I like and adore Fluke and wish more brand would make meters that match Fluke, but Brymen wins easily as a advanced meter as long as your do not demand a simple user interface (Again excluding 289).
If I had to equipment a couple of people with meters would I select Fluke or Brymen? If a standard Fluke meter could do it (Not 289), I would select Fluke, because it is much easier to teach people to use a Fluke meter, than a Brymen meter, even though the Brymen is technically best. $100 (or a bit more) is not really significant in that calculation, what is required is a simple meter that can do the job (Fluke excels in that) .

You seem to be comparing simpler Flukes to more elaborate Brymens to draw the UI compexity conclusions. That's not a valid comparison, apples should be compared to apples. An adequate, more or less, Fluke model to compare to Brymen BM869s would be the 289.
For a "simple meter that can do the job", look at BM2800 series, for example, or the BM230 series.

Fluke excels in providing stable long-term quality to corporate customers, for whom paying extra for each DMM is cheaper than having to deal with any issues and lose man hours which can potentially happen if they start replacing their Flukes with something else. The value of Fluke is not so much in the DMM itself (which are of course good nevertheless), but in its consistent meeting of the expectations and being a part of long established workflows.

[IanB]

Also, as a business purchase, I would say the BM869s is not an expensive tool. Rather than paying for a warranty, buy three 869's and compare them from time to time to make sure their readings align. If one happens to go wrong, recycle it and buy a replacement.

[HKJ]

You seem to be comparing simpler Flukes to more elaborate Brymens to draw the UI compexity conclusions. That's not a valid comparison, apples should be compared to apples. An adequate, more or less, Fluke model to compare to Brymen BM869s would be the 289.
For a "simple meter that can do the job", look at BM2800 series, for example, or the BM230 series.

You are in a way correct in this, but only partially. Nearly all Fluke meters are very easy to use and clearly marked, the exception is 289. With Brymen just about any meter looks complex when looking at it. That is not true, but you may need a bit of time to realize it.

To clarify: A Fluke meter only has a secondary function on a few of the switch position, a Brymen has secondary and tertiary (even quaternary) functions on a lot of the selections. It makes Brymen look complicated. In reality the Fluke has the function, but it is not directly marked i.e. the difference is often cosmetic (Or the Fluke do not have the function at all).

Fluke excels in providing stable long-term quality to corporate customers, for whom paying extra for each DMM is cheaper than having to deal with any issues and lose man hours which can potentially happen if they start replacing their Flukes with something else. The value of Fluke is not so much in the DMM itself (which are of course good nevertheless), but in its consistent meeting of the expectations and being a part of long established workflows.

I agree with that, Fluke is probably the best brand to provide long term (10+ years) stability. You have to pay for it, in many cases it is small change compared to other expenses.

If somebody believe I do not like the 289 they are wrong, it is one of my best meters (189 is often better), but it has some faults that makes a lot of other meters look favorable. Other top end meters are CA5293 and Gossen Energy, but they do also have some serious issues.

[shapirus]

To clarify: A Fluke meter only has a secondary function on a few of the switch position, a Brymen has secondary and tertiary (even quaternary) functions on a lot of the selections. It makes Brymen look complicated.

Ah, this is what you meant. Yes, totally agree. Having multiple functions crammed into a single position when there's still a lot of room remaining out of the full 360 degrees circle is a UI design failure, that's for sure (OTOH there has to be a limit to how far the switch can be rotated so as not to exceed what a wrist can do in a single movement). Maybe there's a technical reason behind this, the way the contacts are made, or something, I don't know. But while that is true, it's still not an issue in practice. Well, almost: for example, it's counterintuitive to rotate the switch into the mV DC position when you want to measure frequency of a high(ish) voltage signal, as the frequency counter is a secondary function in that position. And there's another Hz function in the AC volts position, too, with the former marked with the square wave symbol. Can anyone tell what's what exactly without a manual?
This can probably can be an issue in some circumstances (such as equipping a number of workers who aren't expected nor supposed to do any thinking outside of a very narrow scope required to do a particilar job).

[mwb1100]

I'd say the BM869s is closest to the discontinued Fluke 187 in both functionality and UI.  The UI is very similar, with the Fluke perhaps being a small bit simpler by having a dedicated button for selecting frequency and duty (which require additional presses of the general purpose select button on the BM869s).

One thing the 187 (and many Flukes) has is auto hold, which is sadly absent from the BM869s.  I believe that the BM78x meters are the only Brymens that have an auto hold feature.

[shapirus]

One thing the 187 (and many Flukes) has is auto hold, which is sadly absent from the BM869s.  I believe that the BM78x meters are the only Brymens that have an auto hold feature.

Yeah, another one I forgot to mention. All in all, the platform is showing its age. As good as the 869s still is, it could sure use a facelifting update.

[IanB]

Yeah, another one I forgot to mention. All in all, the platform is showing its age. As good as the 869s still is, it could sure use a facelifting update.

I agree. Autohold, higher diode check voltage, and diode check beep would definitely be useful additions.

Having multiple functions crammed into a single position when there's still a lot of room remaining out of the full 360 degrees circle is a UI design failure, that's for sure (OTOH there has to be a limit to how far the switch can be rotated so as not to exceed what a wrist can do in a single movement). Maybe there's a technical reason behind this, the way the contacts are made, or something, I don't know.

I don't worry too much about the multiple mode selections on buttons as you can cycle through these while the probes are connected, while turning the selection switch in the middle of a measurement is not recommended.

[joeqsmith]

4)  Anything else you might think of that would reduce my pre-purchase anxiety? 

Buying a toaster must really put you on edge.   

The BM869s is no bench meter.  I would never consider trading in my old HP34401A for the BM869s.   They serve two different purposes.  Get the right tool for the job.  Read the manuals before purchase. 

If you really want something high resolution, that Gossen Ultra is the closest thing I have seen.  Of course, it comes with it's own problems.  Good luck in your search.

[Lightages]

I have the calibration procedures for many if not most of the Brymen meters. If anyone want them please PM me.

[Lightages]

It seems I don't have the procedures for most models, or I can't find them. I can provide for the 250 series, AM-140/160, 520 and 820 series, 860 series.

[joeqsmith]

I have the calibration procedures for many if not most of the Brymen meters. If anyone want them please PM me.

Brymen had provided me with the alignment procedure for the BM869s under the strict pretense that I not release it, which I agreed.  Morally, I stand by my commitments.  I suspect the concern the companies have with letting this information loose is there are certain people that feel they can align a meter without having access to the tools needed.  They proceed to fuck up their meter, which is no big deal, but then they start posting about how inaccurate it is.  I imagine this could damage the companies reputation.   

(calibration and alignment are not the same thing....)

From Brymen:

Out of our practice, we can release our calibration data to user or calibration house only after we get his gentle promise that he will not release our calibration data to other. Can you and that calibration house promise this? 

My response:

Yes, we can make this promise that the alignment procedure would not be released to the general public.   

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/brand-new-bm869s-calibration/msg3472220/#msg3472220

[Lightages]

Brymen had provided me with the alignment procedure for the BM869s under the strict pretense that I not release it, which I agreed.  Morally, I stand by my commitments.  I suspect the concern the companies have with letting this information loose is there are certain people that feel they can align a meter without having access to the tools needed.  They proceed to fuck up their meter, which is no big deal, but then they start posting about how inaccurate it is.  I imagine this could damage the companies reputation.   

(calibration and alignment are not the same thing....)

Thanks for pointing that out. I reviewed my correspondence with Brymen and I too had agreed to not provide this information. I had forgotten that I had agreed to this stipulation.

Please accept my apologies for offering something I should not have.

[Fungus]

To clarify: A Fluke meter only has a secondary function on a few of the switch position, a Brymen has secondary and tertiary (even quaternary) functions on a lot of the selections. It

Brymen has the BM857s if you want a simple, "almost-function-per-position" meter to complete with a Fluke 87V.

"Dual display", etc., sounds like a cool feature but if you don't use it very often then it's just display clutter and OP has a Fluke 289 for that.

DC accuracy is on par with a BM869S.

I've had mine for about 8 years and as far as I can tell it's still accurate down the last digit in 50,000 count mode, and 500,000 count mode is pretty close. I don't believe any other Brymen will be superior in that respect.

Thinks I like:
Simplicity of the function selector, simplicity of the display
Really high-contrast/readable display (Flukes fall down a bit here IMHO)
Speed
Lights up any LED in diode mode


Things I don't:
Short backlight time, can't disable the timeout
The stand is maybe a bit small (although I don't use it much thanks to the good display angles)

Looks are a matter of taste but IMHO the Brymen "industrial" meters look better in person than the front-on pics they put on their web site, and their "curvy" meters look worse.

Also, as a business purchase, I would say the BM869s is not an expensive tool. Rather than paying for a warranty, buy three 869's and compare them from time to time to make sure their readings align. If one happens to go wrong, recycle it and buy a replacement.

No need if OP owns Fluke 289's (plural)

[shapirus]

BTW another function where the BM869s does not shine is sub-nF capacitance meaurement. It just doesn't have enough resolution there: the lowest range, which is 50 nF, is way too high. So much so that I'd say that it's completely useless below ~100 pF and can only give a rough estimate below 1 nF -- you need a separate device to measure in these ranges.

[temperance]

BTW another function where the BM869s does not shine is sub-nF capacitance meaurement. It just doesn't have enough resolution there: the lowest range, which is 50 nF, is way too high. So much so that I'd say that it's completely useless below ~100 pF and can only give a rough estimate below 1 nF -- you need a separate device to measure in these ranges.

That applies to any handheld DMM. Holding the probes is enough to screw up any measurement below a few nF's.

How does the continuity beeper work? The only meter I've got with a descent response is a Fluke. All the others I've used are too slow and can not be used to track down bad contacts.

Do Brymen DMM's go up in smoke if it's on resistance and you plug into a wall socket? That will happen anyhow sooner or later.

[Fungus]

How does the continuity beeper work? The only meter I've got with a descent response is a Fluke.

Do Brymen DMM's go up in smoke if it's on resistance and you plug into a wall socket?

Brymens are as good as Flukes for both of those.

...or better. eg. The 869s mentioned in this thread has a CAT IV 1000V safety rating - higher than any Fluke.

[shapirus]

How does the continuity beeper work?

Perfectly.

Do Brymen DMM's go up in smoke if it's on resistance and you plug into a wall socket? That will happen anyhow sooner or later.

I believe I saw a vid where someone tested it, and the meter survived (as many decent DMMs do). Don't quote me on this though, better search yourself -- there has to be a lot of vids showing transient protection, user error protection etc.

[Fungus]

I believe I saw a vid where someone tested it, and the meter survived (as many decent DMMs do). Don't quote me on this though, better search yourself -- there has to be a lot of vids showing transient protection, user error protection etc.

There's also vids of people hooking them up to machines and turning the selector switch 100,000 times then looking for wear under a microscope.

Result: A Brymen is as good as a Fluke.

(And Keysights fall apart after a couple of thousand turns)

[joeqsmith]

BTW another function where the BM869s does not shine is sub-nF capacitance meaurement. It just doesn't have enough resolution there: the lowest range, which is 50 nF, is way too high. So much so that I'd say that it's completely useless below ~100 pF and can only give a rough estimate below 1 nF -- you need a separate device to measure in these ranges.

That applies to any handheld DMM. Holding the probes is enough to screw up any measurement below a few nF's.

The BM869s only has a 10pF resolution.  I've seen a few that offer 1pF.   Yes, you need to not only zero out the meter and keep your hands away, you may also have to add some capacitance to get the meter into it's measurement range.   

https://youtu.be/tmB_xdUjQoc?t=361

Do Brymen DMM's go up in smoke if it's on resistance and you plug into a wall socket? That will happen anyhow sooner or later.

I have not looked at every Brymen DMM and can't answer that.  However, the ones I have looked at will certainly survive as I have demonstrated many times.

[shapirus]

That applies to any handheld DMM.

Not exactly any. A counterexample is a super cheap Uni-T UT33A+, which has a usable 2 nF range.

Watch around 3:35:



I don't know for sure, but it can't be the only DMM with a low-nF capacitance range.

Holding the probes is enough to screw up any measurement below a few nF's.

Yes, but that's irrelevant to not having a sufficiently low range.

[Fungus]

There's also vids of people hooking them up to machines and turning the selector switch 100,000 times then looking for wear under a microscope.

Oooh, Joe's here...

Just to be clear, that's 50,000 times to the far end of the dial then 50,000 times back again.

[temperance]

Superb, next meter will be a Brymen. That's if the Fluke fails because I don't need that many meters.

[joeqsmith]

Superb, next meter will be a Brymen. That's if the Fluke fails because I don't need that many meters.

The newer Fluke meters I have looked at have held up well to my tests.   I can't say that about their older products.

If yours is newer, I expect it will last you your life time, literally.   

[Fungus]

Superb, next meter will be a Brymen. That's if the Fluke fails because I don't need that many meters.

You should turn in your EEVBLOG membership card immediately.

[Lightages]

For what is worth, my opinion is that Brymen makes some of the best multimeters, and on top of that a better value than Fluke. Brymen is also the OEM for some Amprobe, Extech, Greenlee and other brands. I own 5 Brymen meters at the moment.

[temperance]

The newer Fluke meters I have looked at have held up well to my tests.   I can't say that about their older products.

It is a Fluke 11, about 30 years old and still correct when compared with a DMM6500.

[shapirus]

The newer Fluke meters I have looked at have held up well to my tests.   I can't say that about their older products.

It is a Fluke 11, about 30 years old and still correct when compared with a DMM6500.

I dare to assume that your usage pattern hasn't been quite like the tests that mr. Smith performs :)
Check https://www.youtube.com/@joesmith-je3tq/videos -- assuming of course that it's the same Joe Smith.

[temperance]

I dare to assume that your usage pattern hasn't been quite like the tests that mr. Smith performs

Of course not. The Fluke is a very simple yet practical with the push buttons, well build, easy to operate, doesn't eat batteries and does what a DMM has to do for many simple troubleshooting tasks.

I don't know how you use your meters. For a a simple bench meter for troubleshooting daily low power low voltage electronics, excluding ESD protection the test performed by Mr. Smith are not so relevant. If your job is taking measuring on a mains grid on a daily basis in large factories with extreme transients from switching heavy loads with mechanical means I agree that some descent over voltage protection isn't a luxury item. Those mechanical switches are the best transient generators on the planet with pico second rise time specifications. The same goes for ESD in large factories with machines winding up plastic foil at 150 m/s with sparks shooting trough concrete floors as if someone firing a gun next to you. Those sparks are deadly. Other parts of those machines can become charged as well and discharge into whatever comes near including wiring going into PLC's to operate those machines.

In comparison to that most people work with potato power and extreme protection isn't required. With respect to ESD one can hope that people in here know that you shouldn't operate a lab sitting on a glass chair dressed in sheep's wool. At least that's not what I prefer.

I do like the tests performed by Mr. Smith. Nonetheless my requirements some interesting stuff can be learned from those tests.

Do I still have to turn in my EEVblog membership card?

[shapirus]

That's all true -- the average user will very likely never expose the meter to anything near the conditions of those tests.
I was just commenting that the fact that a 30 year old Fluke still works and measures correctly today is not necessarily relevant to what you quoted in that message, that is, that the newer Flukes withstand harsh transient testing better than the old ones.

[joeqsmith]

The newer Fluke meters I have looked at have held up well to my tests.   I can't say that about their older products.

It is a Fluke 11, about 30 years old and still correct when compared with a DMM6500.

My first DMM was a Fluke 8000A.  It's much older, was very expensive and also very sensitive to any transients.

Recently I found a Fluke 77 in the trash bin that was electrically functional.  While it proved to be more robust than my original Fluke, it was no match for their more modern meters.   

A friend gave me their Fluke 189 which I really like.  They got it from a friend of theirs who had passed away.  Since I have owned it, my friend also passed away.  I'm next in line....  I wanted to see how well that meter would hold up and bought a non-working one for little cash for the sole purpose of testing it.  Turned out to just be missing some parts and worked fine.  I ran a full set of tests on it and it held up fine.   Fluke now makes some of the most robust (electrically and mechanically) meters I have looked at.  This includes the meters they are having made in China.   

My testing has nothing to do with 61010 AC mains safety tests.  Those tests are performed with what is known as a combo generator.  These generators are spec'ed for and open circuit voltage waveform and a short circuit current waveform.   My generators do not produce any where near the energy required.  It's never been a goal to test them for safety.   Rather, I run very low energy transients more inline with what I may expose the meters to.   

[Majorassburn]

UPDATE:

Well, I hate threads where you never know what happened to the OP's question, etc.
I had originally decided to buy a Brymen 869s to hold me over until my DMM6500 arrived.

Well, after all the GREAT advice and experience that everyone shared with me here, I decided to put the 869s on hold.

Instead, after much research (EEV threads, u-tube vids and speaking with Sig Sales), I bought a Siglent SDM3055 instead. It will be shipped today from Siglent factory. They just got a new boatload of them in last week - hopefully, they'll have the latest firmware, bug fixes, etc.

Why did I?  Because this value-priced DMM will probably always live on the prototyping bench where the Brymen was going to reside. I gave up portability and a few features for about the same $$$ outlay and I don't have to change batteries. Both great options but practicality prevailed because we have several new Fluke 87V's for portability.

That's it. I'm like a woman in a shoe store. I have trouble choosing my final pair because all the others look so good, too. Besides, I suffer from pre and post purchase anxiety even when at the grocery store trying to decide whether to get the small size or the large size box of Cheerios! I tremble with Decisional Insecurity Syndrome! 

Thanks for all the input.  I'll report on my experience with the new Siglent after I get some time on it.
Major. 

[shapirus]

Instead, after much research (EEV threads, u-tube vids and speaking with Sig Sales), I bought a Siglent SDM3055 instead.

Its specs look quite good. Unless it has some stupid bugs and poor UI choices that could spoil user experience, it should work, especially since you seem to have needed a bench multimeter after all, not a hand-held one.

I gave up portability and a few features for about the same $$$ outlay

This is curious. I bought my BM869s locally for about $180 IIRC, and it can be had today, still locally, for below $250. The SDM3055 sells for no less than twice that price (actually more like x2.5). Sounds like Brymen's pricing is very flexible in terms of taking geography into account :).

[Fungus]

... for about the same $$$ outlay

Huh?

I can get three Brymens for the price of one of those.

[Majorassburn]

I stand corrected.  My hasty conversion from Euros to USD was way off. Well, I still think (hope) the Siglent will serve better on the prototype bench even though it's more expensive.

Of course, my next handheld will probably be the Brymen 869s unless Brymen comes out with an updated version of the 869.

Thanks for all the help. 

[rsjsouza]

Congratulations on your purchase and thank you for reporting back the resolution!

Lurking on such threads as always, and I can also vouch for the quality ans customer support from Brymen. I have a BM857 for ~12 years and not only it is still quite accurate but it carries a very simple but useful UI, a great contrast LCD and is very silent! That is in contrast with the beep-a-pa-looza of the majority of the modern chinese DMMs.

I also have a BM251 from Greenlee (DM200A) bought new from eBay, but Greenlee honors the lifetime warranty. Quite the robust meter and compact for those field jobs.

[J-R]

I like Brymen well enough, but let's dial back the love affair a little bit and point out they have had their share of issues.  Plenty of reports of the BM869s drifting a bit over time and of course with temperature, and the BM78x series had the issue where the magnetic holder attachment muted the speaker (which they corrected in later units).  I got no support from Welectron/Brymen on either of these issues even right after purchase and had to correct them myself (https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM780-Buzzer-Shield-Spare-Part).  I also had an issue with my BM235 where I shut it off but the selector switch ended up in between two detents and it sat that way for some weeks.  Afterwards, the selector switch was just completely flapping in the breeze and I had to take it apart and stretch the plastic springs back overnight to fix it since it was out of warranty. The one issue I had with one of my Fluke test leads I e-mailed them with the DMM serial number and they sent me two new sets of leads 2nd day air without hesitation.

In the past I've suggested the Siglent SDM3045X for a new but low budget bench DMM.  It's $399 delivered (to most markets).  The BM869s delivered to US with carry case and USB interface is $255, so these are not worlds apart for a hobbyist wondering which to get for their bench.