Author Topic: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy  (Read 10713 times)

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Offline The Electrician

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DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« on: March 22, 2014, 03:10:18 pm »
Here are some measurements of capacitors comparing the DER DE-5000 to the Wayne-Kerr 6440B.  The open/short cal on the DE-5000 was performed before making measurements.  The caps were measured using the blade terminals of the DE-5000.

Code: [Select]
Nominal Capacitance          Frequency    Wayne-Kerr          DE-5000

        100 pF                 100 Hz        102.3              102
        100 pF                  1 kHz        101.9              102.1
        100 pF                 10 kHz        101.7              101.9
        100 pF                100 kHz        101.6              101.8

       1000 pF                 100 Hz        988.6              989
       1000 pF                  1 kHz        988.0              988.8
       1000 pF                 10 kHz        987.5              988.2
       1000 pF                100 kHz        987.2              987.9

         10 nF                 100 Hz        9.622              9.626
         10 nF                  1 kHz        9.618              9.619
         10 nF                 10 kHz        9.616              9.617
         10 nF                100 kHz        9.614              9.609

        100 nF                 100 Hz        100.49            100.53
        100 nF                  1 kHz        100.49            100.52
        100 nF                 10 kHz        100.48            100.49
        100 nF                100 kHz        100.48            100.65
 
         1 uF                   100 Hz        1.102             1.102
         1 uF                    1 kHz        1.096             1.098
         1 uF                   10 kHz        1.083             1.085
         1 uF                  100 kHz        1.066             1.068

         7.5 uF                 100 Hz        7.512             7.516
         7.5 uF                  1 kHz        7.505             7.510
         7.5 uF                 10 kHz        7.513             7.520
         7.5 uF                100 kHz        9.954             10.78

The 7.5 uF cap is approaching its SRF at 100 kHz, which causes its measured value to rise.

I've noticed that large values, approaching the 20 uF max at 100 kHz, tend to read high on the DE-5000.

One nice thing is that even though the DE-5000 can't measure the value of large capacitances at 100 kHz, it does get the Rs (ESR) correct, even for very large capacitors.  For example, I have a "computer grade" capacitor with nominal value of 55,000 uF.  The Wayne Kerr says the ESR is 7.6 milliohms, and the DE-5000 says 6 milliohms; that's not too bad!

I'll do some measurements on inductors in another post.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 06:50:46 pm by The Electrician »
 
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Offline rstoer

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 03:22:14 pm »
Thanks for taking the time to do this. As a DE-5000 owner it's good to know. I use mine all the time and I'm very pleased with it.
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 03:44:26 pm »
Milli Ohm testing video
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 12:16:57 pm by robrenz »
 

Offline The Electrician

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 07:18:33 pm »
Here are some measurements on inductors.  I don't have a selection of inductors spanning exact orders of magnitude, so I had to use what I could find.

All these inductors have ferromagnetic cores, so their measured value depends on the applied excitation level.  The excitation applied by the DE-5000 is fixed, but I can vary the Wayne-Kerr's excitation from 1 mV to 10 V.  I see variations of the same magnitude as the difference of the readings on the two instruments when I vary the excitation level for the Wayne-Kerr measurement.

This means that we shouldn't expect the same level of agreement with ferromagnetic cored inductors.

I found a really old universal wound "air core" inductor and made a single measurement at 10 kHz.  The W-K measured 534.4 uH and the DE-5000 measured 534.9 uH.

I notice in all these cap and inductor measurements, the DE-5000 seems to be measuring a tiny bit high.

Code: [Select]
Nominal Inductance          Frequency    Wayne-Kerr          DE-5000

        4.7 uH                 100 Hz        4.84                 4
        4.7 uH                  1 kHz        4.810               4.9
        4.7 uH                 10 kHz        4.795               4.85
        4.7 uH                100 kHz        4.769               4.795

       100 uH                  100 Hz        113.6               115
       100 uH                   1 kHz        113.5              114.5
       100 uH                  10 kHz        111.8              113.7
       100 uH                 100 kHz        107.0              113.3

       500 uH                 100 Hz         512.9               507
       500 uH                  1 kHz         512.6              512.8
       500 uH                 10 kHz         511.7              511.8
       500 uH                100 kHz         508.2              510.1

        25 mH                  100 Hz        25.63              25.56
        25 mH                   1 kHz        25.57              25.61
        25 mH                  10 kHz        25.49              25.60
        25 mH                 100 kHz        27.54              27.75
 
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Offline Carrington

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 07:45:18 pm »
First, to "The Electrician", thank you very much for this post.  :-+
Please can you do a comparison with capacitors below 100pF? Between 20pF and 0pF, for example.
Thanks.

Edit: I'm sorry haven't seen this before:  :-[
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/handheld-lcr-meter/msg410735/#msg410735
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 07:47:53 pm by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline saturation

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 12:20:34 pm »
My kudos too Electrician  :clap:, good to confirm the specifications of the DE-5000 is way within the published accuracy in the manual. :-+
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Shock

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2014, 12:41:32 pm »
Just in case people missed it.  Roberenz's great video is showing the IET brand.
Would be interesting seeing them running back to back.

Brand: DER EE
Model: DE-5000

Brand: IET
Model: DE-5000
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
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Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 03:05:57 pm »
Just in case people missed it.  Roberenz's great video is showing the IET brand.
Would be interesting seeing them running back to back.

Brand: DER EE
Model: DE-5000

Brand: IET
Model: DE-5000

It's pretty much accepted that Der EE is the ODM for IET. The differences are likely minimal (based on whatever revision off the PCB Der EE was on when IET purchased their batch).
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Offline BravoV

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2014, 04:58:31 pm »
The Electrician, thanks for doing this, its an eyes opener for these "relatively" cheap handheld LCR meters, I guess this kind of price/performance was unthinkable say like 10 years ago, isn't it ?

Looking at so many results of many Cyrustek based LCR meters, its quite convincing that the true secret sauce of it's performance is in the Cyrustek chip sets.

Even my el-cheapo Mastech MS5308 which supposed to be far inferior compared to so called by their really proud owners  ::) , the ├╝ber alles "GenRad DE-5000", and still it performs very decent against your 5 digits priced LCR meter.   :P

Edit:
Btw, since you have your self a very good and decent handheld LCR meter now, any plan to sell that boring and bulky 6440B ... cheaply ?  >:D
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 05:02:47 pm by BravoV »
 

Offline Pasky

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Re: DER DE-5000 Measurement accuracy
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2014, 06:48:15 am »
Thanks for the info, gives me confidence in the one I bought, been using it just to measure unmarked ceramics and such so far.
 


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