Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown

[ThermalGuru]

Here is a tip. The TL-21 leads are silly short for lab bench use.
It was easy enough to open the TL-21 box and solder in longer Kelvin leads. You can pick those up on Ebay.
One example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LCR-Meter-Test-Leads-Lead-Clip-Cable-Terminal-Kelvin-Clip-Wires-with-4-BNC-/181391981262?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3bcdface

Cheers

[DoDaMaffs]

Greeting's All,
I recieved my De-5000 about a week ago from Japan with the tweezers and alligator
clips and agree that the clips are a bit short for practical use. I am wondering if
someone out there is able to come up with a modification to address the concern
about input protection,
 ie: adding protection diodes or similar without adversly affecting the units accuracy.
As Dave said in the video " I dont think there is enough".

Also on the subject of the meter mods, I after ordering one realised that the
USB IR interface may be of some use and It appears that the software is not to bad.
My issue is that the ebay seller wanted about  $80 AUD + $15AUD for postage for the
USB IR alone yet in the video Dave indicated that it would be around $30.
I cant find it anywere for that price and am considering
building one if I cant get the original for a reasonable price.

Another thought is to find on the chip the RS232 pins and go direct
serial possibly with optocouplers for isolation. Any Thoughts?
Beest Regards ......Pete

[robrenz]

........ I am wondering if someone out there is able to come up with a modification
to address the concern about input protection, ie: adding protection diodes or similar without adversly affecting
the units accuracy.  ......Pete

My DE-5000 is several years old but it has unpopulated footprints for input protection on the circuit board. Its just a matter of figuring out what the components should be.

I just put a Postit note I put over the display that says DISCHARGE CAPS so I don't forget. I put it back on every time I put it away so I will always be reminded.

[DoDaMaffs]

Reply to ROBRENZ,
I agree that it is good practice to discharge the cap before testing
on any meter, (and it is clearly declared in both the manual and
on the meter itself) but sooner or later as we all do you grab the
wrong meter probes from your cluttered bench or your mistress
taps you on the shoulder just as you are probing a lifted leg of a cap,
and bingo, one rooted LCR meter.
So can we confirm what the other meters that are using the Cyrustek
Chipset are doing for front end protection. ie: Mastech, CEM, Uniturd
( yes they are crap).
Until recently I have never had a use for an LCR meter but whist machining
aluminium on the lathe suddenly the spindle hessitated and the motor
started to sqeal like a pig, So I assumed a blown motor, I dismantled the
lathe and tested the start and run caps with a shity DMM that was nearby
and the caps were in tolerance. I took the motor around to a fellow expecting
a complete rewind but he rang two days later and said that the windings were
as new and the run capacitor had failed. I like you have a lot of machinery
lathes, mills, ect and the fact that I somehow missed that faulty cap was
enough to justify the purchase of a dedicated meter.... Pete

[omgfire]

So can we confirm what the other meters that are using the Cyrustek Chipset are doing for front end protection.

This great forum already contains PCB photos of Cyrustek ES51919/ES51920 based LCRs:
V&A VA520/VA520B (PeakTech 2170, Voltcraft LCR 300, Axiomet AX-LCR42A, Aktakom AMM-3320, Kusam KM-520B) have places for diodes at the PCB bottom: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/some-photos-from-a-peaktech-2170-teardown/
CEM DT-9935, Aktakom AMM-3035 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-lcr-meter-cem-dt-9935/msg194934/#msg194934
Mastech MS5308 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/mastech-ms5308-lcr-tester-member-discount/
UNI-T UT612, Tenma 72-10465 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-and-tear-down-of-uni-t-ut612-lcr-meter/msg198420/#msg198420
Lutron LCR-9184, Extech LCR200 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/extech-lcr-200-repair/
IET, DER EE DE-5000, Asita AS250.

[DoDaMaffs]

OMGFIRE,
Thanks for the links, I was not aware of the other LCR posts and did
not know that there were so many similar variants. I will open mine
up tomorrow and as robrenz said try and determine what components
may be added ( if any) to improve the unit.

First Notes on LCR Testing;   
01.. ESR Charts are a waste of time, they vary greatly in values
       and are not specific to a pertcular manufacturer.
Not sure about Q or Disipation Factors so I intend to use a silly
sounding method that a mate has used with great success for over
35 years in repairing TVs.
He uses of all meters a Fluke 12 and has found that +0% -10% of rated
value regardless of voltage rating. That is if the cap measures above its
nominated value or falls more than 10% than value whilst the back of
the TV is open and the soldering iron is hot that cap is out.
So based on that concept I cant begin to imagine how many good caps
he has discarded, But this works for him and I am not going to argue
with his method as it is not my field of expertise....Pete

[DoDaMaffs]

Furthermore,
I did not mean to hijak the thead, so I will leave a space for others.




Is that enough space, this is all new to me... Thanks Pete

[Salas]

Does anybody know if using the mains adapter requires the battery to be removed? I have noticed that the DER meter is kinda hungry. Not too efficient to work on battery when matching parts values, such sessions can take quite long. I don't have the AC adapter and I could order one, but if it takes removing the battery to use it, that would be a big nuisance.

[robrenz]

You do not need to remove the battery when using the AC adapter.

[Salas]

Thanks!

[rstoer]

...I after ordering one realised that the USB IR interface may be of some use and It appears that the software is not to
bad. My issue is that the ebay seller wanted about $80 AUD + $15AUD for postage for the USB IR alone yet in the video Dave indicated that it would be around $30. I cant find it anywere for that price and am considering building one
if I cant get the original for a reasonable price. Another thought is to find on the chip the RS232 pins and go direct
serial possibly with optocouplers for isolation. Any Thoughts?
Beest Regards ......Pete

IET LABS sells it for $39. It looks like it's out of stock though. Here's the link...
http://www.ietlabs.com/de-5000-dtk.html

I also see they're selling a DE-6000 now. That could explain why the DE-5000's have been showing up at bargain prices lately. Here's a excerpt from their website:
"0.2% Accuracy up to 33% Improvement from discontinued DE-5000"
A link to it: http://www.ietlabs.com/lcr-meter/de6000-lcr-meter.html

[omgfire]

Thanks for the links, I was not aware of the other LCR posts and did not know that there were so many similar variants.

I counted only 6 different Cyrustek based LCRs (16 if you count rebadge). But:
UNI-T UT612 and CEM DT-9935 don't support proper 4 wire measurement.
Mastech MS5308 has "hidden" calibration button and bulky case.
"Japanese" DE5000 is cheapest (for today) and don't have such problems.

[PedroDaGr8]

...I after ordering one realised that the USB IR interface may be of some use and It appears that the software is not to
bad. My issue is that the ebay seller wanted about $80 AUD + $15AUD for postage for the USB IR alone yet in the video Dave indicated that it would be around $30. I cant find it anywere for that price and am considering building one
if I cant get the original for a reasonable price. Another thought is to find on the chip the RS232 pins and go direct
serial possibly with optocouplers for isolation. Any Thoughts?
Beest Regards ......Pete

IET LABS sells it for $39. It looks like it's out of stock though. Here's the link...
http://www.ietlabs.com/de-5000-dtk.html

I also see they're selling a DE-6000 now. That could explain why the DE-5000's have been showing up at bargain prices lately. Here's a excerpt from their website:
"0.2% Accuracy up to 33% Improvement from discontinued DE-5000"
A link to it: http://www.ietlabs.com/lcr-meter/de6000-lcr-meter.html

As I mentioned earlier if you compare the actual specs,  the  DE-6000 is the same as the  5000. A few minor improvements in spec that could easily be established by slightly more rigorous calibration.

[BravoV]

Mastech MS5308 has "hidden" calibration button and bulky case.

As an owner of MS5308, actually I love the bulky case, and with that it has a really huge & massive lcd display to ease my deteriorating eyes.  And also with much-much bigger battery capacity, 8 AAs  vs 9V battery. But maybe its just me. 

[PedroDaGr8]

Mastech MS5308 has "hidden" calibration button and bulky case.

As an owner of MS5308, actually I love the bulky case, and with that it has a really huge & massive lcd display to ease my deteriorating eyes.  And also with much-much bigger battery capacity, 8 AAs  vs 9V battery. But maybe its just me. 

The mastech is far from a bad lcr. I have a like/dislike relationship with the form factor. It's definitely not standard both good and bad.  Plus the meter quality is quite good.

[Fsck]

...I after ordering one realised that the USB IR interface may be of some use and It appears that the software is not to
bad. My issue is that the ebay seller wanted about $80 AUD + $15AUD for postage for the USB IR alone yet in the video Dave indicated that it would be around $30. I cant find it anywere for that price and am considering building one
if I cant get the original for a reasonable price. Another thought is to find on the chip the RS232 pins and go direct
serial possibly with optocouplers for isolation. Any Thoughts?
Beest Regards ......Pete

IET LABS sells it for $39. It looks like it's out of stock though. Here's the link...
http://www.ietlabs.com/de-5000-dtk.html

I also see they're selling a DE-6000 now. That could explain why the DE-5000's have been showing up at bargain prices lately. Here's a excerpt from their website:
"0.2% Accuracy up to 33% Improvement from discontinued DE-5000"
A link to it: http://www.ietlabs.com/lcr-meter/de6000-lcr-meter.html

As I mentioned earlier if you compare the actual specs,  the  DE-6000 is the same as the  5000. A few minor improvements in spec that could easily be established by slightly more rigorous calibration.

but... it's BLUE

[BravoV]

The mastech is far from a bad lcr. I have a like/dislike relationship with the form factor. It's definitely not standard both good and bad.  Plus the meter quality is quite good.

Indeed, it's accuracy is even better than the specification, some measurement results comparison versus a monsterous $13000 LCR meter -> Wayne Kerr 6440B vs Mastech MS5308

I guess the real magic and the secret recipe lies within the Cyrustek chipset.

[PedroDaGr8]

The mastech is far from a bad lcr. I have a like/dislike relationship with the form factor. It's definitely not standard both good and bad.  Plus the meter quality is quite good.

Indeed, it's accuracy is even better than the specification, some measurement results comparison versus a monsterous $13000 LCR meter -> Wayne Kerr 6440B vs Mastech MS5308

I guess the real magic and the secret recipe lies within the Cyrustek chipset.

Yeah I have the utmost respect for Cyrustek. They have made some awesome measurement it's, many of which have dramatically reduced the cost of measurement for us hobbyists. Also, they don't sell to just anyone,  mmeaning the stuff that uses their ic's tends to be at least decent.

[DoDaMaffs]

Please lets not get into the " my Reboks are brighter than yours" thingo.

I was all ready to order the Mastech when the power supply issue
occured, 2nd choice was the IET DE 5000 then the japs offered up
the DER DE 5000, that was it all done at $100 US.

Look at all them batteries, thats not far off 3 phase.

[kripton2035]

And also with much-much bigger battery capacity, 8 AAs  vs 9V battery. But maybe its just me. 

I have my deree 5000 meter since october 2013 and still havent changed the "small" 9v battery !

[omgfire]

And also with much-much bigger battery capacity, 8 AAs  vs 9V battery.

By the way, VA520 has 6 AAAs, but I don't understand how 4 wire measurement works there. At first glance VA520 has proper kelvin clip with 6 banana plugs. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/handheld-lcr-meter/msg410780/#msg410780
But, isn't slot connector shorten sense and force?

[DoDaMaffs]

To OMGFIRE,
My understanding is that the blade and slot type connection is
a method of obtaining a kelvin type 2 x sense & 2 x source +
sheild and retaining electrical isolation between those points.
The blade is generaly double sided pcb.
A meter may also use banana jacks for 4 wire kelvin but would
then need 4 jacks plus sheild. As seen on the VA 520.
So dont be guided to buy a meter just because it has a slot,
It may or may not be capable of 4 wire kelvin connections and
low ohms, also you may not require 4 wire for your particular
application.
I studied alot of forums and videos before buying an LCR and
the unit I chose has both split slots and split jacks so I can
either use the connections that it came with (4 wire)
or standard probes (2 wire) or like Robrenz make my own
custom set.

ROBRENZ has some fantasic utube video's on this subject,
 if you havent already seen them then you and everybody
else interested in metering would be wise to have a look.
Regards .....Pete

[DoDaMaffs]

I just had a look at that meter (VA520) and as I previously assumed it
is using banana jacks ( possibly 2 x source & 2 x sense plus sheild)
It looks nice, I have'nt looked at the specs but I think we can aggree
that most of these meters including my one are very much similar.

Also what may be available in EU, UK, US and elsewere may not be
obtained here in AUST, And to buy one here in store the only
choices were BK or Agilent so I was  lucky when the DE 5000
was being offered here on ebay from Japan.

All the best....Pete

[robrenz]

Thanks for the advertising and glad you liked the videos

[DoDaMaffs]

To ROBRENZ
I was considering doing a video to compliment yours by
making 4 wire split banana's, but thought that as soon as
I do the edit yours would be up.
Been waiting 6 months, quality takes time and you take longer.

Best Regards.....Pete