Author Topic: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown  (Read 94077 times)

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Offline crystal

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2015, 08:31:24 pm »
switch ro Rs instead of Cs and you will get the esr at the choosen frequency
if there are too many capacity the meter cannot measure them
or also you can switch to 120hz or 1khz eventually it will measure the capacity

Hm....I didn't know that. So basically RS = CS (ESR measurement). Been testing right now, readings seam the same except for the one extra digit.
 

Offline ted572

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2015, 10:24:04 pm »
The DE-5000 has been replaced by the DE-6000.  Much improved over the DE-5000, although I prefer the Agilent/Keysight U1733C over the DE-6000.     Ted
 

Online macboy

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2015, 11:12:58 pm »
The DE-5000 has been replaced by the DE-6000.  Much improved over the DE-5000, although I prefer the Agilent/Keysight U1733C over the DE-6000.     Ted
No, the DE-5000 is not discontinued except by IET, and the DE-6000 is not (necessarily) better. You may want to look at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/de-5000-vs-de-6000-lcr-showdown/
The DE-6000 is IET's attempt to justify charging 3x the price for the same instrument, by increasing the model number and very slightly tightening the specs.
 

Offline rosbuitre

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #78 on: June 12, 2015, 11:49:14 pm »
Hi
Someone has a new version of software for DE-5000 (I use the Ver:1.0.0.23) ?, it is interesting but does not record ESR/RP, and error on export to excel, send an email to deree.com asking for a firmware / software newest and no answer

Regards
Osvaldo
My instruments: DMM Keysight 34461A / Tektronix DMM916 / Fluke 12, Rigol DS1074Z, Deer DE-5000, Siglent SDG805 / SDP3303D, Dayton Dats2
 

Offline ironcurtain

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2017, 06:06:11 pm »
Anyone knows what diode/zener type is used for D5? I toasted mine with reversed polarity for the battery :(
 

Online macboy

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2017, 04:41:22 pm »
It's just a protection diode. Hopefully it did its job, and the meter isn't damaged.
Replace it with any normal silicon rectifier diode (NOT Schottky), installed reverse biased (cathode band at +/red).
 

Offline ironcurtain

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2017, 05:28:36 am »
It's just a protection diode. Hopefully it did its job, and the meter isn't damaged.
Replace it with any normal silicon rectifier diode (NOT Schottky), installed reverse biased (cathode band at +/red).

Fixed with 4148 and applied conformal coating around since I had to use a PTH part... I noticed when I insert the alligator clip module the capacitance is nonzero. How can this be fixed? Is it a bad idea to directly insert components into the slots?
 

Offline technogeeky

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #82 on: November 23, 2017, 08:55:10 am »
It's just a protection diode. Hopefully it did its job, and the meter isn't damaged.
Replace it with any normal silicon rectifier diode (NOT Schottky), installed reverse biased (cathode band at +/red).

Fixed with 4148 and applied conformal coating around since I had to use a PTH part...

Quote
I noticed when I insert the alligator clip module the capacitance is nonzero. How can this be fixed?

Just insert the alligator clip module and calibrate it open/short. If it refuses to calibrate correctly here (I would think anything like > 2 pF would be wrong), then probably the cables are not connected. There are four wires, and they are (on my unit) both soldered directly to the alligator clips. However (on my unit) this quickly failed presumably due to mechanical stress at the location where the wire meets the alligator clip (the alligator clip crimps were not done properly, evidently).
Quote
Is it a bad idea to directly insert components into the slots?

No problem. And if you need to calibrate here, feel free to do so. The open is trivial, the short could just be a short through hole lead.

Enjoy!

 

Offline ironcurtain

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2017, 06:51:53 pm »
It's just a protection diode. Hopefully it did its job, and the meter isn't damaged.
Replace it with any normal silicon rectifier diode (NOT Schottky), installed reverse biased (cathode band at +/red).

Fixed with 4148 and applied conformal coating around since I had to use a PTH part...

Quote
I noticed when I insert the alligator clip module the capacitance is nonzero. How can this be fixed?

Just insert the alligator clip module and calibrate it open/short. If it refuses to calibrate correctly here (I would think anything like > 2 pF would be wrong), then probably the cables are not connected. There are four wires, and they are (on my unit) both soldered directly to the alligator clips. However (on my unit) this quickly failed presumably due to mechanical stress at the location where the wire meets the alligator clip (the alligator clip crimps were not done properly, evidently).
Quote
Is it a bad idea to directly insert components into the slots?

No problem. And if you need to calibrate here, feel free to do so. The open is trivial, the short could just be a short through hole lead.

Enjoy!

That did it! Thank you! Self-calibration was painless.
 

Offline JDW

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2018, 01:33:12 pm »
What is the purpose of the TL-23 guard lead?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2018, 11:26:40 pm »
Does anyone know whether the DE-5000 talks SCPI or something else?
 

Online macboy

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2018, 08:52:09 pm »
Does anyone know whether the DE-5000 talks SCPI or something else?
Definitely not SCPI. In fact, it is not capable of accepting any command over serial link. The serial link is output only, so it just sends all readings as they happen, nothing else.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/decoding-der-ee-lcr-meter-de-5000-serial-bitstream/
 
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Offline mwb928

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #87 on: May 15, 2018, 10:20:56 am »
For those who would like to perform unit calibration, here is the information and it is also works on Mastech MS5308, UNI-UT612 or whatever using Cyrustek ES51919 and ES51920 chip set.

For DE-5000, adjust DC 500mV between TP1 and TP2.

For others, adjust DC 500mV between pin 26 and pin 28 on ES52920.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:08:21 am by mwb928 »
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2018, 10:26:22 am »
For those who would like to perform unit calibration, here is the information and it is also works on Mastech MS5308, UNI-UT612 or whatever using Cyrustek ES51919 and ES51920 ship set.

For DE-5000, adjust DC 500mV between TP1 and TP2.

For others, adjust DC 500mV between pin 26 and pin 28 on ES52920.

Thanks , and I assume you have access to that chip documentation ?

Offline mwb928

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2018, 11:04:36 am »
The test points are for the ES52920 reference voltage adjustment.  It needs special software and different standard values for LCR calibration which will involve thousands dollars.  If the chip set burn out due to over voltage or whatever, get a new one. 
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #90 on: May 16, 2018, 05:25:10 am »
The test points are for the ES52920 reference voltage adjustment.  It needs special software and different standard values for LCR calibration which will involve thousands dollars.  If the chip set burn out due to over voltage or whatever, get a new one.

Ok, but whats that 500mV for ?

I mean how it affect the measurement if this reference say drifted out ?

Edit : I also updated the giant Mastech MS5308 thread, with close-up photo with the location -> Post $250.


At MS5308, wonder whats the TP_VRH test point for, any idea what voltage ?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 07:35:00 am by BravoV »
 

Offline bugi

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #91 on: May 19, 2018, 08:03:56 pm »
Looked into my DE-5000 after I got interested due to another thread mentioning (lack of) measurement input protections, but while at it, noticed other interesting points, especially in the power input reverse polarity protection (or lack of it) already seen in this thread.

My recently acquired DER DE-5000 has no battery/DC-input reverse polarity "protection" diodes at all (D3 and D5 are not populated). So no worries of replacing them if I accidentally put the battery wrong way around - I probably would have to replace the whole device instead. (Or figure out what components are broken, and what the components are/were, "Q1" etc. wouldn't tell much).

Though, it seems that the DC-input side's bulk capacitor has been replaced with a slightly bigger diode (though could not find info by the markings on it, measured it to behave like diode), thus doing the same work as the original "not really protecting"-diode was supposed to do, which means it will burn a few short moments longer before either it or the power supply breaks. Hopefully with the diode into a short and a power supply with short-circuit protection.

Sigh. I think, just in case, I'll look for two cheap FETs to tweak in there for proper reverse polarity protection. Otherwise mr. Murphy will pay a visit sooner or later.

Also, compared to other RLC-meter variants with these chipsets, DER DE-5000 seems to be the only one that has decided to leave many of the bulk capacitors away (on supplies and the two legs of the trim resistor), and also the small capacitors parallel with the positive side drive-path's 3 highest resistors. These might affect accuracy at some ranges?  The bulks would probably be easy to fill in (probably anything that fits the spot would improve something), but the caps in the measurement path might need to be of specific values, and/or would possibly affect some possible internal calibration.
 

Offline bugi

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #92 on: May 26, 2018, 08:53:57 pm »
A little bit of further checks into the meter... In case someone finds these bits of information useful/interesting...

The chip gets multiple supply "rails", of which most are simply branched from the same 3.52V supply (probably "3.5V"), and one "5V" (4.96V). The 5V has a bigger bypass cap on it, and seems to be stable with no rippling at all times. All the 3.5V supplies have basically same behavior, due to missing the larger local bypass caps and not having much bulk caps anywhere else, either. The 3.5V supply/supplies has/have from "zero" ripple to about 80mVpp ripple (at measurement frequency or multiple of it) depending on the ongoing measurement (what part and at which frequency). Whether that affects accuracy and/or operation would depend on chip's internal PSRR and measurement method/timings.  (Considering that other meter variants with the same chip keep those caps, I think it might be better to have them than not.)

I added a 100µF electrolytic at somewhat bad location (where I was able to keep it in contact with one hand while probing with the other), and that reduced the worst case 80mVpp ripples to about 10mVpp. I assume putting multiple 3216 tantalum polymers where they should be, in the unpopulated spots, would drop it even more.

All supplies, and also the adjustable (reference?) voltages have quite a bit of noise on them. However, the measurement setup wasn't optimal, so the noise could be also pickup from the room or the nearby oscilloscope. Anyway, in open case surgery, the noise level was also about 80mVpp (and didn't vary much, although was a bit less at one particular case... could have been also a measurement error, or effect of having hand in different place, or whatnot). Since the case and electronics aren't shielded (other than the ground plane being on the top side of the PCB), I'd assume the noise levels would be similar even with closed case.  I was thinking of trying an ad-hoc shielding, but couldn't figure out how to have both easy shielding and easy probing under that shield, so I skipped that.


The measurement voltage seems to be a sinewave biased by +1.80V, amplitude of the sinewave depending on the component and meter's state. The largest waveform I could probe was 1.92Vpp (with a 4.7k resistor, didn't bother to try bigger ones), i.e. from 0.84V to 2.76V.  Semiconductors would definitely trip. I have also seen much lower measurement voltage, but that typically happened during "OL" states. (EDIT: I did not test all possible combinations/cases, but the ones I did, both sides of the component are at 1.80V bias, i.e. there is no (significant) DC current through the component.)

On the note of meter "state", I noticed that in the auto-LCR mode the shown result may depend on the way the measurement was started. For example, when checking a capacitor, if scope probes were connected at the time of switching measurement frequency, the meter could end up showing R(s or p) with OL or low value (can't remember which). But if the probes were first detached, then switching frequency, then letting results stabilize, and then finally connect probes back, the meter would happily show and keep showing the correct capacitance value.  Not a big thing, IMHO, just to be aware that depending on which order one connects the component and changes options may give unexpected results.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 05:09:20 pm by bugi »
 
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Offline WayneD

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 AC Adapter
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2019, 11:49:16 am »
Anyone know what size the dc coaxial plug is?
 

Offline shuichik

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2019, 07:55:59 am »
Outer dia = 3.5mm
Inner dia = 1.3mm
length     = 12mm
 

Offline adriten

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #95 on: January 03, 2021, 11:59:09 pm »
hello, anyone knows where the "split banana plugs" can be found ? I've  never  met any but
they are supposed to exist since  DER EE 5000 input is designed to accept them for  the 4 wire measurement
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #96 on: January 04, 2021, 12:05:38 am »
Hi,

What split Banana Plugs ?

I´ve bought the "full package" a few months ago....

Offline kripton2035

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Offline adriten

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #98 on: January 04, 2021, 05:01:03 pm »
if you look closely into the + or -  banana connectors, on the instrument front panel, you will notice the contacts are split in two ,see the pics, at the start of this thread, (post from PedroDaGr8)
To realize a 4 wire measurement you need a banana plug split in two
adri

 

Offline Hydron

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Re: Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown
« Reply #99 on: January 04, 2021, 09:16:30 pm »
Tek does (or did) some 4-wire probes, with what I assume are split-banana plugs. Search for TL705 and TL725.

Edit: confirmed split, apparently for the DMM4040/4050, no idea which orientation the split is in (would need to match the DE-5000).
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 09:25:13 pm by Hydron »
 


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