EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: aryasridhar on April 19, 2015, 06:21:45 pm
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Hey Guys,
So after buying a scope recently for my little electronics lab, I am looking for a DMM now, I already have one which is a Fluke 101, however it is not suitable for Electronics as such, its a nice little electricians meter.
I generally work on DC power supplies, Guitar effects pedals and also plan to work on building guitar tube amps in the future (High DC voltages involved)
My needs are to be able to measure current consumption of my pedals and other stuff that I will be building.
Need to have accurate resistance, capacitance and DC voltage measurements.
Continuity testing of course, and also would be great if the meter has some features like min/max, peak to peak voltage and so on.
I am getting a good deal on a Fluke 179 for USD 88. However the unit is without the probes and the probes may cost me more...
What are the other best options that I have? I do not want to go for any other brand than a fluke, is 17B any good for electronics? how about any other low end Flukes?
Keeping in mind, I live in India, some flukes may get very expensive here, since there are shit loads of taxes etc levied onto these units. So something you get for a 100 bucks in the US may actually cost double here.
Any suggestions are appreciated. also please let me know if I should pass on the 179' offer? and please do let me know if there is anything better than I can go for in a lower range?
The 87 V is very expensive, and i am not sure if i can justify its cost really, each of my pedal sells for about $150 approx, I can make a cool profit out of it, but then 87V still looks on the higher side to me.
I'd also like to know if a 87 or 87 III would be good? since i see many going for a good price on ebay, and how is it different from the 87V. Would be great if someone shared info on this please.
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I don't know what is available to you in India, but there are many choice depending on your budget. You don't make it clear how much you want to spend.
My recommendations right now, based on experience:
Uni-Trend UT139C, it has almost everything you could want in a multimeter. It is inexpensive and has good input protection. Our friend Franky, iloveelectronics, on the forum here has an ebay store:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325)
He might also ship to you directly outside of ebay and maybe at a bit better price.
He also sells many people's favorite multimeter, a Brymen BM257s. It is built with ful proper input protection, is built like a tank, and has every function almost any electronics person could use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340)
If you want something to compete with a Fluke 87V but don't like the price, then the BM869s. Have a look for reviews and comments here on the forums.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755)
Others that need mentioning:
Amprobe 37XR-A
Amprobe AM-270
Amprobe AM-160
Amprobe AM-570
BK Precision 2709
Brymen BM829s
Brymen BM525s
Brymen BM859s
Extech MM series
Fluke 17B, good basic Fluke
Uni-T UT171A, no temperature, comes with PC cable
Uni-T UT61E, comes with PC cable, not very good input protection, no temperature
Uni-T UT71D, poor input protection, many features, comes with PC cable
These are more too, but this is just off the top of my head.
BTW, when I make a note on input protection not being great, keep that meter out of high energy circuits.
You should also have a good look at the hard work Wytnucls has put into a spreadsheet of multimeters:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/)
Here you can see all the features in one place.
Another thing to consider; Two multimeters are very good to have. Some people argue that you should have at least four. Why? Well you can measure voltage and current at the same time on the input and output of a circuit.
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I don't know what is available to you in India, but there are many choice depending on your budget. You don't make it clear how much you want to spend.
My recommendations right now, based on experience:
Uni-Trend UT139C, it has almost everything you could want in a multimeter. It is inexpensive and has good input protection. Our friend Franky, iloveelectronics, on the forum here has an ebay store:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325)
He might also ship to you directly outside of ebay and maybe at a bit better price.
He also sells many people's favorite multimeter, a Brymen BM257s. It is built with ful proper input protection, is built like a tank, and has every function almost any electronics person could use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340)
If you want something to compete with a Fluke 87V but don't like the price, then the BM869s. Have a look for reviews and comments here on the forums.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-Digital-Multimeter-500-000-count-Dual-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-PC-Logging-/171272486755)
Others that need mentioning:
Amprobe 37XR-A
Amprobe AM-270
Amprobe AM-160
Amprobe AM-570
BK Precision 2709
Brymen BM829s
Brymen BM525s
Brymen BM859s
Extech MM series
Fluke 17B, good basic Fluke
Uni-T UT171A, no temperature, comes with PC cable
Uni-T UT61E, comes with PC cable, not very good input protection, no temperature
Uni-T UT71D, poor input protection, many features, comes with PC cable
These are more too, but this is just off the top of my head.
BTW, when I make a note on input protection not being great, keep that meter out of high energy circuits.
You should also have a good look at the hard work Wytnucls has put into a spreadsheet of multimeters:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/)
Here you can see all the features in one place.
Another thing to consider; Two multimeters are very good to have. Some people argue that you should have at least four. Why? Well you can measure voltage and current at the same time on the input and output of a circuit.
Well, I am OK to shell out about 150 to 200 on my meter, and when you say the 17B is basic, do you say so since it does not have backlight, min/max etc?
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Yes, it is a basic electronics meter with very good build quality. It is not necessarily the best bang for the buck. IMHO, the BM257s is a much better buy as it has more functions, and has the option of a PC connection cable if you want.
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Yes, it is a basic electronics meter with very good build quality. It is not necessarily the best bang for the buck. IMHO, the BM257s is a much better buy as it has more functions, and has the option of a PC connection cable if you want.
OK, that sounds good to me, I am contemplating the options I have at hand, also just to mention, I can get just about any Fluke DMM I want here, however as I mentioned the price is pretty high, much higher than these sell for anywhere else in the world.
I am trying to get my hands on this used Fluke 179, which I can get for about 88 USD, does that sound like a good deal? Also what do you think of thee 179 for Electronics?
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It would be worth getting a high voltage probe to protect your new DMM if you plan to play with tube amplifiers. Some commercial amplifiers run very high anode voltages so you may need a test system rated at several kV or you could easily kill your new DMM.
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The 179 is a great meter. I would be happy to have one. It does lack microamps measurement which some people say is necessary for electronics. I would agree with this assertion, but it is up to the individual of course. How much does it cost in India? $88 for a used 179 is not bad, but if it doesn't come with leads then you need to spend around another $15 or more for good leads. Are you sure the fuses are good and the real and correct fuses? These can cost you another $30 to replace. Do you have access to ebay?
If you want to buy new and want to be sure and can use ebay, then the BM257s I linked is a very good alternative to the 179 although it is a bit lower in accuracy and has a lower CAT rating. If you want to spend a bit more like $200, then the Brymen BM829 does so much more than the 179 and has a higher CAT rating. Franky is out of stock right now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM829-Digital-Multimeter-Dual-Display-AC-DC-TRMS-Dual-Temp-10-000-Count-/201070664254 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM829-Digital-Multimeter-Dual-Display-AC-DC-TRMS-Dual-Temp-10-000-Count-/201070664254)
but you can also get it from another company www.tme.eu (http://www.tme.eu)
http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm829s/# (http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm829s/#) shipping is additional of course.
The Brymens have the option of a PC cable if you want in the future too.
So it is up to you if you trust the seller of the 179 and can get good test leads and are sure the fuses are good.
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It would be worth getting a high voltage probe to protect your new DMM if you plan to play with tube amplifiers. Some commercial amplifiers run very high anode voltages so you may need a test system rated at several kV or you could easily kill your new DMM.
True, I sure will be getting the high voltage probe when I start working on my tube amp project sometime in December....
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The cheapest option for you perhaps is to get a Fluke 27/FM kit with the HV probe and case. It is not the most full featured meter but it is built like a tank, can stand any climate you might get in India. Examples:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mutimeter-Fluke-27-FM-/181716218650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4f21731a (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mutimeter-Fluke-27-FM-/181716218650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4f21731a)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-TEST-METER-PROBE-80K-6-HV-LEADS-WORKS-NICE-/171750412040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fd1f4f08 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-TEST-METER-PROBE-80K-6-HV-LEADS-WORKS-NICE-/171750412040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fd1f4f08)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-FM-MULTIMETER-W-80K-6-HV-PROBE-LEADS-CASE-True-RMS-/111649982380?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fedb87ac (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-FM-MULTIMETER-W-80K-6-HV-PROBE-LEADS-CASE-True-RMS-/111649982380?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fedb87ac)
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The cheapest option for you perhaps is to get a Fluke 27/FM kit with the HV probe and case. It is not the most full featured meter but it is built like a tank, can stand any climate you might get in India. Examples:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mutimeter-Fluke-27-FM-/181716218650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4f21731a (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mutimeter-Fluke-27-FM-/181716218650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4f21731a)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-TEST-METER-PROBE-80K-6-HV-LEADS-WORKS-NICE-/171750412040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fd1f4f08 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-TEST-METER-PROBE-80K-6-HV-LEADS-WORKS-NICE-/171750412040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fd1f4f08)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-FM-MULTIMETER-W-80K-6-HV-PROBE-LEADS-CASE-True-RMS-/111649982380?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fedb87ac (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27-FM-MULTIMETER-W-80K-6-HV-PROBE-LEADS-CASE-True-RMS-/111649982380?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fedb87ac)
Hey, Thanks for the suggestions, however the climate where I live remains pretty much the same throughout the year, unlike other parts of India, and I do not have any plans of field work either, I am more or less going to use the meter at home on my electronics workbench.
What do you think about the 179 that is on offer for 88 bucks, any good? It has been calibrated and is in really nice condition.
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+1 for the Fluke 27/FM. I got one in the same package that Lightages linked about a year and a half ago. I paid about $65 USD shipped. Not sure what the shipping would be to you. It has been very useful. As a secondary use, it can serve as an instrument to inflict blunt force trauma to someone who annoys you.
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What do you think about the 179 that is on offer for 88 bucks, any good? It has been calibrated and is in really nice condition.
I think I already answered that question.
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What do you think about the 179 that is on offer for 88 bucks, any good? It has been calibrated and is in really nice condition.
I think I already answered that question.
Oh Sorry, my bad. Yes the 179 new is available for about 20k in indian rupees. and this used one is about 5500 rupees...which is much less expensive.
The person selling it is the same guy where I bought 3 oscilloscopes so far...for friends and for my personal use, and each one works great and was properly calibrated and in very good condition. So as far as he selling duds to me is not likely. He also said he would give me good leads...but the fuse needs to be checked though.
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Well, I am OK to shell out about 150 to 200 on my meter, and when you say the 17B is basic, do you say so since it does not have backlight, min/max etc?
The Fluke 17B+ (note the + or plus) has backlight and min/max. See
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/inen/digital-multimeters/General-Purpose-Multimeters/Fluke-17B+.htm?PID=78682 (http://www.fluke.com/fluke/inen/digital-multimeters/General-Purpose-Multimeters/Fluke-17B+.htm?PID=78682)
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The person selling it is the same guy where I bought 3 oscilloscopes so far...for friends and for my personal use, and each one works great and was properly calibrated and in very good condition. So as far as he selling duds to me is not likely. He also said he would give me good leads...but the fuse needs to be checked though.
For 88 USD, you are getting a good deal on the Fluke 179. Ebay prices for the the 179 are usually 100+ USD or more not including shipping + import taxes to your country.
Since the seller is someone who has sold you test equipment in working order, ask him/her to verify the fuses are good and throw in a set of test leads.
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BTW, here is a video review of the Fluke 17B+.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbAWbqiygg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbAWbqiygg)
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BTW, here is a video review of the Fluke 17B+.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbAWbqiygg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbAWbqiygg)
Oh Thank You, will check it out now, I also checked for the 87V, and it costs 25000 INR, that is about 400 USD. Too much money to bite the bullet.
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So I got a call from the guy who was selling the 179 locally here that the guy who he was waiting for a response from, has confirmed that he would buy the 179 :( my bad luck....
New 179 and 87V are super expensive here, not sure what to do, I do not want to get any other brand meter really.
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What can I say. If you won't considera other brands then buy a Fluke. If you can break away from the Fluke faboyism there are other good alternatives as already mentioned.
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What can I say. If you won't considera other brands then buy a Fluke. If you can break away from the Fluke faboyism there are other good alternatives as already mentioned.
I know what you mean, but you know it is just in my head and I know for a fact that if i go for anything other than a fluke, i will end up buying the fluke i want down eventually, so might as well just get it now :D
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New 179 and 87V are super expensive here, not sure what to do, I do not want to get any other brand meter really.
If you have patience and can wait, I suggested some multimeter options to a fellow Canadian in this thread in the $100 USD range. I don't know how much shipping + taxes to your country will cost though.
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpost.php?p=520877&postcount=17 (http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpost.php?p=520877&postcount=17)
If you need to measure current now, can you use an external resistor and measure the voltage drop across it? From my quick research, measuring the current draw of a guitar pedal is in the 5mA to 500mA range?
PS. And yes, I have managed to get all those used Flukes in the $100 or significantly less range with patience.
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New 179 and 87V are super expensive here, not sure what to do, I do not want to get any other brand meter really.
If you have patience and can wait, I suggested some multimeter options to a fellow Canadian in this thread in the $100 USD range. I don't know how much shipping + taxes to your country will cost though.
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpost.php?p=520877&postcount=17 (http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpost.php?p=520877&postcount=17)
If you need to measure current now, can you use an external resistor and measure the voltage drop across it? From my quick research, measuring the current draw of a guitar pedal is in the 5mA to 500mA range?
PS. And yes, I have managed to get all those used Flukes in the $100 or significantly less range with patience.
Yeah most pedals work from about 10mA to about 500mA at max, but since I am designing a power supply for the pedals and other guitar related solutions, current reading in mA and uA would be great, also since i modify existing pedals and replace components I would like to see the hold function a lot, also min/max and relative options would be great, honestly in a guitar pedal design, the resistance etc...but i have to learn other stuff and would like a meter like the 87V.
I sure am going to keep my eyes open on ebay for one, even a 179 will work great...
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So with the options that I am seeing, I do not feel very confident that I can score a nice deal off ebay or elsewhere on the 87-V.
Guys who are selling a good one are not shipping to India, and the ones that are not selling good pieces are kind of OK to ship to India.
More than that, my ebay account for some reason is not working, I have emailed them and its been this way for over a year now, with no resolution, so I cannot even contact the sellers and request them to ship it to India.
On an average I see the 87v's going for around $200 +/- $25 + Shipping - which is going around $100 = 325 approx, and now here for about $390 USD, I can score a brand new 87V.
What should I do?
I got another guy here selling a Fluke 179 for 11000 INR, which is about $173 US, and a new one goes for $280 USD, but that guy is travelling at the moment and will be back after a month or so, and he can then ship it to me.
Somehow my needle is stuck on an 87v, since it is a full featured meter, Is it worth biting the bullet for a new one?
I am sure I can recover the cost, by selling about 3-4 pedals.....
Or should I just get the 179, what I do not like is I cannot
Fluke 179 vs Fluke 87-5:
Here are the main differences between the 2, in all other things the 2 meters are identical. 87-5 has more capability, in several cases I may need these capabilities, higher temp measurements, the relative (or 0 out the display) button, and the ability to measure micro-amps. These are the 3 main features I may end up needing the most on the 179 that the 87-5 has. Also there may be times where capturing the peak of an AC wave form (voltage or current) would be nice to have rather than the Max function (which doesn't always capture the true peak).
I figured out the main differences and pointed out below, went through manuals of each meter to come to this point. Please correct me if I am missing something or if something needs correction.
Fluke 87-5 vs. Fluke 179
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Count 20,000 vs. 6000
Basic accuracy .05% vs. .09%
Capacitance 10pF vs. 1nF (1000pF)
Micro Amps YES vs. NO
Duty Cycle YES vs. NO
Relative Reference Button YES vs. NO
Temp Max 1994F (1090C) vs. 752F (400C)
Motor Drive Measurement YES vs. NO
Peak measurement function YES vs. NO
Really torn between the options, although the 87-5 is very expensive to invest that kind of money at once, but then I am pretty sure this is going to last me a lifetime.
There is another guy selling a 87-5 here for 17000 INR, which is about $268 USD, which is a great deal, the meter looks very new, I have added the images of these actual units here.
87-5 is literally unused, and the 179 was used for a specific project for about 2-3 days.
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I'm just going to throw this out as I have been a tube amp builder and pedal builder for 20+ years. First of all you can not beat a Fluke, my Fluke 85 that is 20 years old still works flawlessly. Second, you will need more than 1 DMM. I use a minimum of 3, one for current, one for voltage and another to probe around - and yes, in the future I will buy another Fluke. My only non-Fluke is a BK 2709B, nothing wrong with it except I don't like it as well as the Flukes (should have bought a 175 instead).
Finally, if you are predominately working with audio signals don't get too wrapped up in the "maximum ac hold" feature of a DMM, use your scope for that which reads peak to peak, not rms like the DMMs.
What I'm saying is buy exactly what you need and don't spend for more features that you wont use, most likely you will end up needing more than one meter anyhow so save your money.
John
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You obviously want a Fluke 87V and I think you are asking people to tell you that is what you should get. If that is what you want and won't be happy with anything else, then the decision is easy; Buy a Fluke 87V! I don't think you will be unhappy with it. You will also never be unhappy buying quality. SO BUY IT!
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You obviously want a Fluke 87V and I think you are asking people to tell you that is what you should get. If that is what you want and won't be happy with anything else, then the decision is easy; Buy a Fluke 87V! I don't think you will be unhappy with it. You will also never be unhappy buying quality. SO BUY IT!
Well, honestly Its not that I Only want the 87V, I am just trying to get my head around to see if the 179 suits what I need it for, and the comment above yours really clears the air for me, indeed a few meters are needed for any electronics use, I already have a Fluke 101, which is just perfect for voltage measurements etc, but I cannot run it for current measurements...I just want to get something that I won't regret down the line, and since the money at stake for either of these meters is very high for me, I want to go and get something and be done with it than coming back and getting another meter just coz I am unhappy with the one I got, which is the case now, I got my fluke 101 thinking I do not need to measure current on my pedals, how much do they consume, hardly 100mA at best, but now since I am building power supplies for pedals, I need to know how much current is consumed by my pedals for a comparison and ensure that my power supply can easily handle 3 of my pedals per output (these are isolated power supplies I am building) and I must be able to get the exact ratings per output, or around about current ratings per PS.
If i cannot spec my power supply well, I might lose many customers, which I cannot take chances with. It is already a niche market and tough to keep things rolling.
Hence, a few added features over current measurements etc are always welcome and a well made DMM is something that I would be happy to pay for. Hence all these questions etc...
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I'm just going to throw this out as I have been a tube amp builder and pedal builder for 20+ years. First of all you can not beat a Fluke, my Fluke 85 that is 20 years old still works flawlessly. Second, you will need more than 1 DMM. I use a minimum of 3, one for current, one for voltage and another to probe around - and yes, in the future I will buy another Fluke. My only non-Fluke is a BK 2709B, nothing wrong with it except I don't like it as well as the Flukes (should have bought a 175 instead).
Finally, if you are predominately working with audio signals don't get too wrapped up in the "maximum ac hold" feature of a DMM, use your scope for that which reads peak to peak, not rms like the DMMs.
What I'm saying is buy exactly what you need and don't spend for more features that you wont use, most likely you will end up needing more than one meter anyhow so save your money.
John
That sounds good, just what I wanted to know....with this I am assuming the 179 would be more than sufficient for my requirements, and ofcourse getting a 87V will always be on the cards for sure :D (it's just in the head you know, when you want a Marshall JTM 45, nothing else would do)
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Yes, the Fluke 179 would be more than sufficient for your application.
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Hey Guys, need advice please....
After a long search, there is a Fluke 179, been used by a guy for about a month, and he dropped it, so the display is now faded, hard to see the digits on it very clearly. He is selling the meter for 55 USD, in "as is" condition. Would it be a good idea to pick it up for the price and get a replacement display for the meter?
I am also suspecting the fuse isn't original, so will have to get those too. Would highly appreciate your inputs please...
Replacement LCD - 35 USD
Fuse - about 7 USD or so
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Would it be a good idea to pick it up for the price and get a replacement display for the meter?
I suggest you ask Fluke India how much this part costs as it is listed in the Fluke user manual as a replaceable part. I attached a screenshot of the Fluke part number. If Fluke India sells it, it will probably be cheaper than what I found on the Internet.
While the lcd is listed at $35.99 USD, I suspect it will cost $19.95 USD shipping to India. At $55.94, this is a very expensive repair.
http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/Fluke-179-LCD-Display-179LCD000001.htm (http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/Fluke-179-LCD-Display-179LCD000001.htm)
http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/termsandconditions.sc (http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/termsandconditions.sc)
International
Flat rate shipping to other countries is $19.95 USD.
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snip
What should I do?
snip
Fluke 179 vs Fluke 87-5:
snip
Fluke 87-5 vs. Fluke 179
You really need to buy both to get to the bottom of it; buy a Fluke 87V and a Fluke 179. Then you will be able to move on with your life ;)
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Would it be a good idea to pick it up for the price and get a replacement display for the meter?
I suggest you ask Fluke India how much this part costs as it is listed in the Fluke user manual as a replaceable part. I attached a screenshot of the Fluke part number. If Fluke India sells it, it will probably be cheaper than what I found on the Internet.
While the lcd is listed at $35.99 USD, I suspect it will cost $19.95 USD shipping to India. At $55.94, this is a very expensive repair.
http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/Fluke-179-LCD-Display-179LCD000001.htm (http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/Fluke-179-LCD-Display-179LCD000001.htm)
http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/termsandconditions.sc (http://shop.flukerepairkit.com/termsandconditions.sc)
International
Flat rate shipping to other countries is $19.95 USD.
Just spoke to the Fluke India SC, they are asking $30 or 2000 INR for the LCD replacement. and about $30 more if I want to get the meter calibrated.
I think I will end up with 55 for the meter, 30 for the LCD, about 20 more for the probes and about 12 for the fuses. A total of $117. Out of which I can easily chuck the probes thing for now, but I will have a very good meter that is about INR 7500 approx. It is still less than half the price of what it sells for in India. about 18500 INR = 291 USD.
Best part is this meter was used for just a month and no more than that...it is in brand spanking new condition.
Does this sound like a good deal? keeping in mind that getting a used one here is pretty difficult.
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What should I do?
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Fluke 179 vs Fluke 87-5:
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Fluke 87-5 vs. Fluke 179
You really need to buy both to get to the bottom of it; buy a Fluke 87V and a Fluke 179. Then you will be able to move on with your life ;)
If i can get a great deal on a 87V I would go for it, but then I need a good reliable meter for now and since the service center is right here in my city, I am not worried about going for one that isn't functioning too, since the rates they are charging to get the meter sounds reasonable.
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One of the curses of EEVBlog forum is that folks pay too much attention to the uA range: $88 for a 179? I would have said go for it without a second thought, provided you follow Lightages' advice regarding fuses (these are expensive).
Since this one is gone, I would get this second one - for a total of $117 you will have a meter that is reliable, safe and will last a lifetime.
The lack of uA range can be easily overcome by a (much) cheaper meter (most everything in the marketplace has this).
All this is backed by my own experience: I initially bought a 179 and realized it did not have the uA range. However, I have been using it for electronics all around without really missing this feature - only on rare occasions I needed something below the 0.01mA resolution of the 179. When I needed it, I then also had an analog meter that could get down to 1uA resolution (also, almost any analog meter gets down to this).
When I saw the time to invest in a second meter (BM857), I then started to pay attention to the uA range and other features. However, when I needed serious measurements the uA range on this meter was insufficient for my measurements (the burden voltage and the precision were way off for the requirements). That is when I ended up saving and buying a uCurrent ($79.00 + shipping)
All this is to explain that: you would be crazy not to invest $117 in a meter that will last you a lifetime and will be one of the safest things out there for its class.
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One of the curses of EEVBlog forum is that folks pay too much attention to the uA range: $88 for a 179? I would have said go for it without a second thought, provided you follow Lightages' advice regarding fuses (these are expensive).
Since this one is gone, I would get this second one - for a total of $117 you will have a meter that is reliable, safe and will last a lifetime.
The lack of uA range can be easily overcome by a (much) cheaper meter (most everything in the marketplace has this).
All this is backed by my own experience: I initially bought a 179 and realized it did not have the uA range. However, I have been using it for electronics all around without really missing this feature - only on rare occasions I needed something below the 0.01mA resolution of the 179. When I needed it, I then also had an analog meter that could get down to 1uA resolution (also, almost any analog meter gets down to this).
When I saw the time to invest in a second meter (BM857), I then started to pay attention to the uA range and other features. However, when I needed serious measurements the uA range on this meter was insufficient for my measurements (the burden voltage and the precision were way off for the requirements). That is when I ended up saving and buying a uCurrent ($79.00 + shipping)
All this is to explain that: you would be crazy not to invest $117 in a meter that will last you a lifetime and will be one of the safest things out there for its class.
Hi, Thank you for the detailed info and your experience with the 179, so what I did is I got the 179 for 55, and before doing so I called up Fluke India (Surprisingly - Tektronix is the main service center for Fluke, Keithley and Tektronics products over here....) and spoke to the service engineer there. Showed him the following pictures and he said it looks like a display issue, and no other major issue, however he gave me a disclaimer that he has to open it up and check if that is actually the case.
I am going to open it up in a while to see if cleaning the display contacts will help in any way, since I have seen a few segments working, I feel it could be fixed with a little cleaning.
Here are the images I sent to the Fluke India SC guys....Two of the images were sent to me by the guy who sold me the fluke...the last image was taken by me after i took it...
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Good buy!
I am not surprised that Tektronix is the service center - they are all divisions of the same owner company.
If you want to take a look at the 179 internals, check the teardown I did a while ago and compare the overall status:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-179-teardown-photos/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-179-teardown-photos/)
I also agree you could use isopropanol alcohol to clear the LCD contacts.
Also, double-check the current ranges and see if there are blown fuses.
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Good buy!
I am not surprised that Tektronix is the service center - they are all divisions of the same owner company.
If you want to take a look at the 179 internals, check the teardown I did a while ago and compare the overall status:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-179-teardown-photos/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-179-teardown-photos/)
I also agree you could use isopropanol alcohol to clear the LCD contacts.
Also, double-check the current ranges and see if there are blown fuses.
Thanks a ton for the link, I am also looking at the 170 series calibration information document and it looks like I can now remove the stuff out of the back case. Hopefully the cleaning process will fix the LCD issue...that will save me decent money that I can spend on something else...fingers crossed.
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So I got the entire thing out of the case cleaned the LCD contacts with IPA, left it to dry out...I then put everything back together, and nothing, it is just the same as before.
I also see at the back of the unit that it was calibrated last in 9th November 2006, and the next due mentioned on the back case is 9th November 2007 by a company called TechniTool, their website name mentioned is http://www.techni-tool.com/, (http://www.techni-tool.com/,) and the phone number on the back is 800-832-4866.
I am guessing this unit was bought in the US. I cannot be sure about that, but even the original seal at the back which has the calibration information is by the same company, I cannot do the check on the meter to see how many times this has been calibrated as the display is down.
I then looked at the PCB thoroughly and found a few things that tell me this was handled by some other technician too, maybe the parts were replaced? I guess you may be in a better position to tell. Pictures attached too look at.
I then ran a test on the fuse check, with the meter set on ohms and it read 0.2 ohms when i checked between the V/Ohms input to the 10A input, and then saw the Overload "OL" indication on the LCD when i did the same test on the 400mA input. Even when i look at the 400mA fuse, it looks like it has blown. So it has to be replaced. and from the above pictures you can tell that both fuses look original and not fake ones.
I then ran the continuity test and damn, this thing never misses even once, when compared to my fluke 101, which would miss 9 out of 10 times. Check out this video I did of the Fluke 101.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hDaIFIorGI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hDaIFIorGI)
Ok, so coming back to other tests, I ran a test with a 9v battery, and checked the rating on my fluke 101, showed about 5.56 volts, and guess what, the 179 showed about 5.49 volts, I am going to believe the 179 in terms of accuracy, but then that makes me feel better really, that this unit is definitely not a DUD.
Now all these readings were extremely difficult to see, i had to tilt the display and in all angles to see the readings.
I feel the meter is pretty good, in terms of calibration, however I will have to fix it another month when I have some cash at hand...
But then at the end it looks like it has to go to the service center or I have to get the LCD and replace it myself, whichever may be the case it will be done tomorrow. Oh yeah, I need to get the fuse as well, the 11A fuse is working fine, its just the other one. So I am in for a cool $40 hit tomorrow. But that is still a steal really.
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Sorry to see the LCD is terribly faded and someone had a go at trying to repair it...
I am not sure if the pictures over emphasize the flux residue, but it seems that you should give a thorough cleanup on the transistor near the MSP430F437 and other surrounding components, including the crystal. That could improve contrast on the LCD as this device is very sensitive to the oscillator capacitance load (check Q2 of this reference (http://www.softbaugh.com/ProductPage.cfm?strPartNo=D437V#FAQ), for example).
(if you have a second meter...) You could also check the voltages at the micro and compare to the voltages shown in page 42 of the MSP430F437 datasheet (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/msp430f437.pdf).
Since you are at it, clean the fingerprints and the 4069 on the second picture. It wouldn't hurt...
Irrespective of that, the person that worked on this meter was really a butcher; it is inexcusable to have solder on the MSP crystal!
One test the 179 manual (http://media.fluke.com/documents/175_____umeng0100.pdf) mentions can be useful: to light up all LCD segments, press the "Hold" button and power up the meter by turning it to the V~
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Sorry to see the LCD is terribly faded and someone had a go at trying to repair it...
I am not sure if the pictures over emphasize the flux residue, but it seems that you should give a thorough cleanup on the transistor near the MSP430F437 and other surrounding components, including the crystal. That could improve contrast on the LCD as this device is very sensitive to the oscillator capacitance load (check Q2 of this reference (http://www.softbaugh.com/ProductPage.cfm?strPartNo=D437V#FAQ), for example).
(if you have a second meter...) You could also check the voltages at the micro and compare to the voltages shown in page 42 of the MSP430F437 datasheet (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/msp430f437.pdf).
Since you are at it, clean the fingerprints and the 4069 on the second picture. It wouldn't hurt...
Irrespective of that, the person that worked on this meter was really a butcher; it is inexcusable to have solder on the MSP crystal!
One test the 179 manual (http://media.fluke.com/documents/175_____umeng0100.pdf) mentions can be useful: to light up all LCD segments, press the "Hold" button and power up the meter by turning it to the V~
Hey Thank you so much for the tips, I cleaned up the board thoroughly with IPA, and also the LCD contacts and other stuff that I saw had dirt or grim on, here are some images.
I also cleaned the Crystal and took off as much of the solder that was on top and sides of it, I did not capture a picture after removing it though, but it looks much cleaner now. Removing the flux/solder/dirt did not make any difference to the display clarity though.
I could not measure voltages across the 430 since i do not have a magnifier, I must get one for these jobs.
Tried the Screen test also to get all the segments up on the screen, but nothing is really clearly visible.
The backlight comes on fine, continuity test is excellent and beeps even at very fast speeds, I am pretty sure the meter is in good shape, since the readings when compared to my Fluke 101 were pretty close, should be better accuracy since my 101 is 1.5% accuracy, while the 179 is 0.09% accuracy, I may be wrong here, but seems like everything else works fine, though I had to look very hard, tilt the screen and such to figure out the faint segments displaying the readings.
I am thinking of sending the meter to Fluke India SC today, but I want to do it myself, so in two minds now on what to do.
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The board looks much better; I know it is very difficult to do things without a decent magnifier (I am on the same situation). Despite that, it seems the crystal still has some grime between its leads which could affect its load capacitance, but frankly it could be anything else at this point.
Good luck with your visit to Fluke! Don't forget to come back and report your experience with them.
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The board looks much better; I know it is very difficult to do things without a decent magnifier (I am on the same situation). Despite that, it seems the crystal still has some grime between its leads which could affect its load capacitance, but frankly it could be anything else at this point.
Good luck with your visit to Fluke! Don't forget to come back and report your experience with them.
The Crystal' image you see here is before i cleaned up the mess off it, will post an image of how it looks now after cleaning.
I am wondering if i should try the eraser method on the zebra strip and/or the hot water method to see if it may work???
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The Crystal' image you see here is before i cleaned up the mess off it, will post an image of how it looks now after cleaning.
I am wondering if i should try the eraser method on the zebra strip and/or the hot water method to see if it may work???
I've never had to do much cleaning to zebra strips. With the exception of one pair of strips that was compressed, worn by previous cleanings or otherwise damaged, I've never had to replace any. Using the eraser on the meter contacts (metal only, not the carbon type) has usually been required and is usually sufficient. I'm not as technically proficient as many on this forum, but I've cleaned a lot of LCD contacts to make a lot of meters work. After using an eraser, be sure to clean the board well.
If you aren't going to change the strips as Fluke recommends, it's important that you keep them in the same position and orientation. Your contacts are flat without tinning, so this isn't as important, but on some meters, there is solder tinning on these contacts and each zebra strip molds itself to the contacts. Mich-matching them in that case leads to disaster. With the correct side (one with depressions) known, there are four ways to put the strips in (two positions, two ways to place strips with dented side toward PCB) and I've been known to get mixed up and have to try all four ways to get it right again.
Also, I never clean LCDs except as a last resort. I've seen model 10 LCDs that have had the conductive material cleaned away. I've never seen that on any other model, but it never hurts to be safe. I've never had to clean an LCD, and usually the zebra strips will stick to it. If so, I never peel them off, just remove it all as a unit, clean the contacts on the board and one size of the zebra strips, and the meter works.
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No need to post an image; if it is clean then it should be just fine.
Excavatoree is right; I haven't seen many LCD-zebra strip interfaces require cleaning, only the occasional PCB-zebra strip interface. Obviously that we can't tell everything is absolutely perfect with the LCD as someone before you already attempted to fix the meter.
I am also a long time user of eraser to clean contacts, even on the edge contacts of PC boards! :) But keep in mind this is a mechanical/friction method and all Excavatoree's warning apply.
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No need to post an image; if it is clean then it should be just fine.
Excavatoree is right; I haven't seen many LCD-zebra strip interfaces require cleaning, only the occasional PCB-zebra strip interface. Obviously that we can't tell everything is absolutely perfect with the LCD as someone before you already attempted to fix the meter.
I am also a long time user of eraser to clean contacts, even on the edge contacts of PC boards! :) But keep in mind this is a mechanical/friction method and all Excavatoree's warning apply.
OK, I guess i will just let this unit go to the SC in that case, hope it just turns out to be a LCD issue....do you suspect anything else might be at fault too?
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do you suspect anything else might be at fault too?
Nothing comes to mind, given the DMM seems to be fully functional despite the LCD.
Good luck with Fluke's SC!
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Nothing comes to mind, given the DMM seems to be fully functional despite the LCD.
Good luck with your visit to Fluke! Don't forget to come back and report your experience with them.
Fluke India is Excellent!!!!! Job done in 20 minutes!!! and Indeed the meter is fully functional, no worries there!!! Its a Winner :D
The engineer was very helpful and even agreed to test if the LCD would work before I purchase it, he tried a test unit, and then showed it to me and after I confirmed, he replaced it. Got the 44/100 fuse as well.
Here are the old/defective parts...
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/OLD%20LCD%20and%2044-100%20Fuse%20800x577_zpsurfhuyon.jpg)
This meter works like a charm and seems to be in cal to me...I did a few tests, though I did not have accurate reference points, but I used my Oscilloscope’ 1Khz 2vpp output to check on the frequency, and the meter seems to be spot on with it.
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/Frequency%20Reference%20Oscilloscope%20800x581_zpsvfmrpub2.jpg)
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/Frequency%20Reading%20off%20Oscilloscope%20591x800_zpsvspibcit.jpg)
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/Frequency%20Reading%20Off%20Scope%20599x800_zpswyud6s02.jpg)
I also used my APC UPS, which has a digital display with the AC voltage reading, so I tested that too and got pretty close readings…I would however trust the fluke than the APC, but then, it seems like it is all good.
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/AC%20Reference%20Source%20APC%20UPS%20800x561_zpsy1tynul0.jpg)
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/AC%20Reading%20on%20Fluke%20179%20599x800_zpsb7q50lzq.jpg)
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/AC%20Reading%20on%20the%20Fluke%20101%20588x800_zpswaurdind.jpg)
I am so relieved, thinking what if it does not work even with the new display, but I am glad it did.
I would like to know if there are any measurements/tests to determine if the meter is in cal?
I shorted the red and the black leads, hooked into COM and V/Ohms with the selector switch in Ohms position, and got 0.1 Ohms reading, which I guess is about right.
Continuity is kick ass as had mentioned before. And the display segments test passed too.
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/Display%20Self%20Test%20584x800_zps3mimgrgg.jpg)
A question I have in mind now is my Fluke 101 is @ about 1.5% Accuracy, whereas the 179 should be about 0,09% accuracy, since I do not know when the Fluke 179 was last calibrated I cannot tell if it is in cal now.
And here are the two side by side, 101 is super small...
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b555/aryasridhar/20150430_153604_zpsnkga0unq.jpg)
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Congratulations on getting it working correctly. It is most like still well within spec but the only way to be sure is sen it to be calibrated or buy a DMM Check from www.voltagestandard.com (http://www.voltagestandard.com) or one of the cheap voltage references from Chin on ebay.
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Congratulations! Lightages' suggestions are very good.
Another suggestion is: if you have a friend or access to a lab with calibrated instruments, you can always check your 179 against them... This has the advantage of being free of charge! :)
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Just remember when buying something like a voltage standard reference that it is limited to checking certain ranges.
In the Fluke 170 series calibration manual, for example, there are 4 performance tests for DCV. They are in the 5V, 300V, 1000V and -1000V ranges. While a voltage standard product can easily generate a 5V source, it can't do 300 or 1000V.
Now that you have 2 meters, doing a comparison between both across a series of measurement ranges should be sufficient to tell you if both are within their respective specifications without a reference standard.
If you want to build your own reference standard, check out scullcom's youtube channel (episodes #21, 11 and 8 ).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDqryeq1kMDSEQwltWqASrA/videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDqryeq1kMDSEQwltWqASrA/videos)
PS. The Fluke 101 DCV accuracy across all ranges is 0.5% +/-3 counts, not the 1.5% as you write.
edit: fixed some typos/grammar
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Thank You Guys, really appreciate the tips, I sure am going to work on a precision device for voltage, current, resistance.
Hopefully will be able to make a decent device for checks.
Heck, I missed a superb deal on a Rigol DS1052E - He was selling it for 230 USD... :( - Maybe another day....LOL
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I missed out to mention, that lab they have here for Fluke Service is also a Tektronix/Keithley Authorized Service Center/Sales unit.
I was just drooling over racks full of gear, I think I even saw a 465 (which is rare to find in India), TDS DSO's Keithley Multimeters and what not...I wanted to capture some of the gear there on my phone camera, but photography is not allowed there :(
That Service Engineer explained all that they deal with here, I asked him if they were hiring, he said, "Send your resume"....I am not an Electronics Engineering Degree Holder, so more than likely my CV will go straight into the bin.
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The chance that a Fluke is accurate on one range but inaccurate in the others is VERY low. If you get a DMMCheck or DMM Check Plus, then you have a pretty good indication that all is well, especially if there is close agreement within specs of the 101.
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The chance that a Fluke is accurate on one range but inaccurate in the others is VERY low.
I agree, but there is a non zero chance that with software stored constants/offsets due to software calibration, that one range could be off due to corrupt settings.
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The chance that a Fluke is accurate on one range but inaccurate in the others is VERY low. If you get a DMMCheck or DMM Check Plus, then you have a pretty good indication that all is well, especially if there is close agreement within specs of the 101.
I checked the website for a DMM Check...their store is closes for vacation..iI will check back when it is open and will get a DMM check for reference...iin the mean time I am trying to make one
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So I took the meter back to the engineer at Fluke and he did some quick tests to mention the meter is in fact in CAL :D YAYYY...
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Dear aryasridhar,
Have you considered the equivalent but cheaper than 87/v is Keysight U1272A