Author Topic: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?  (Read 14086 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2019, 01:41:03 am »
Car makers are doing exactly the opposite, implementing all sorts of technological crutches to enable people to focus even less on driving the car. It's a well known psychological fact that if you remove the need to focus on something, the brain very quickly finds something else to focus on. The less workload a person has, the more they'll tend to zone out and play with their phone.

I'm starting to think they need to make distracted driving a criminal offense, felony if it causes an accident. Maybe if they at least hit people with a $1k fine for the first offense and progressively higher from there people might start to get the message. I see it every single day and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #201 on: August 24, 2019, 06:45:21 am »
I'm starting to think they need to make distracted driving a criminal offense, felony if it causes an accident. Maybe if they at least hit people with a $1k fine for the first offense and progressively higher from there people might start to get the message. I see it every single day and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Over here there is the catch-all "driving without due care and attention". Nonetheless it has been shown to be necessary to have another law w.r.t. using non-handsfree cellphones, and there is talk of  increasing that to any phone.

The latter is silly; perhaps it will become an offense to talk to a passenger.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #202 on: August 24, 2019, 09:09:06 am »
Quote
The latter is silly; perhaps it will become an offense to talk to a passenger.

Well my passenger (my other half) is busy operating the Sat Nav, I find looking over to the centre screen far too distracting! I'm not a very talkative driver, I need to concentrate.  ;)
Chris

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Offline bd139

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #203 on: August 24, 2019, 09:57:21 am »
Can’t fix stupid. Don’t try.

Prevent stupid from being allowed on the road to start with. And test it regularly. And ban people who do stupid stuff instantly.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 09:58:57 am by bd139 »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #204 on: August 24, 2019, 03:13:34 pm »
Quote
The latter is silly; perhaps it will become an offense to talk to a passenger.

Well my passenger (my other half) is busy operating the Sat Nav, I find looking over to the centre screen far too distracting! I'm not a very talkative driver, I need to concentrate.  ;)

If I had a screen, I would too.

Unfortunately too many people think "I can multitask, and do more than one thing at once".
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline james_s

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #205 on: August 24, 2019, 04:49:24 pm »
I'm starting to think they need to make distracted driving a criminal offense, felony if it causes an accident. Maybe if they at least hit people with a $1k fine for the first offense and progressively higher from there people might start to get the message. I see it every single day and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Over here there is the catch-all "driving without due care and attention". Nonetheless it has been shown to be necessary to have another law w.r.t. using non-handsfree cellphones, and there is talk of  increasing that to any phone.

The latter is silly; perhaps it will become an offense to talk to a passenger.

Multiple studies have demonstrated that a handsfree phone is no safer than holding one in your hand, so why is it silly?

I'm not sure precisely why, but talking on a phone is more distracting than talking to a passenger. Perhaps because a passenger is in the same car and can intuitively tell when the driver needs to focus on driving, I don't know. I refuse to use my mobile phone in any capacity while driving because I know that I feel distracted when doing so. I cannot walk and chew gum at the same time and neither can most people who think they can.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #206 on: August 24, 2019, 05:49:02 pm »
Multiple studies have demonstrated that a handsfree phone is no safer than holding one in your hand, so why is it silly?
Please provide links to such  "studies"
If you remove the common distraction variable "phone conversation" from the parameters that study would show that driving with one hand is just as safe as driving with both hands on the wheel.
I find that very hard to believe. Perhaps the difference is below the noisefloor of the study but last five years a multitude of socialpstchology studies have been redone and rejected as non significant. It would not surprise me if these are some of those studies.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #207 on: August 24, 2019, 06:08:40 pm »
I’m glad this thread is still on subject.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #208 on: August 24, 2019, 06:22:50 pm »
I’m glad this thread is still on subject.

Welcome to the Internet!  :-DD
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #209 on: August 24, 2019, 07:47:48 pm »
Multiple studies have demonstrated that a handsfree phone is no safer than holding one in your hand, so why is it silly?

Please provide links to such  "studies"
If you remove the common distraction variable "phone conversation" from the parameters that study would show that driving with one hand is just as safe as driving with both hands on the wheel.
I find that very hard to believe. Perhaps the difference is below the noisefloor of the study but last five years a multitude of socialpstchology studies have been redone and rejected as non significant. It would not surprise me if these are some of those studies.

I read the same studies.  I do not know if they were updated or refuted.  The studies used to support legislation either had very poor control groups or the legislators did not care, but why would they?

The common factor with the greatest effect was the distraction caused by using any phone or even talking to a passenger in the car; it was the intellectual distraction and not the physical distraction.  None of the studies covered it but I wonder if using a two way radio where only one side can talk at a time like with amateur radio is less distracting.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 07:49:45 pm by David Hess »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #210 on: August 24, 2019, 08:13:59 pm »
I find it difficult to believe that looking at a keypad when dialling a number is  equivalent to talking to a passenger while still looking at the road ahead.

Ditto reading/writing an SMS.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #211 on: August 24, 2019, 08:34:39 pm »
Hey Siri call "X" .... Hey Siri "send a message to X" ... problem solved. Hands and attention free here.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #212 on: August 24, 2019, 09:14:59 pm »
Hey Siri call "X" .... Hey Siri "send a message to X" ... problem solved. Hands and attention free here.

That would have the same advantage as two way simplex communications where continuous interaction is not required.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #213 on: August 24, 2019, 09:38:32 pm »
Welcome to the Internet!  :-DD
Have you ever been to Stack Overflow?  :D
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #214 on: August 24, 2019, 09:51:38 pm »
Welcome to the Internet!  :-DD
Have you ever been to Stack Overflow?  :D

Only by mistake; I rapidly made my excuses and left.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline xmetal

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #215 on: August 24, 2019, 09:54:03 pm »
I still use a Tek 2235 although I'm looking to get a modern digital scope as well.
 
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Online vk6zgo

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #216 on: August 25, 2019, 06:11:12 am »
Multiple studies have demonstrated that a handsfree phone is no safer than holding one in your hand, so why is it silly?

Please provide links to such  "studies"
If you remove the common distraction variable "phone conversation" from the parameters that study would show that driving with one hand is just as safe as driving with both hands on the wheel.
I find that very hard to believe. Perhaps the difference is below the noisefloor of the study but last five years a multitude of socialpstchology studies have been redone and rejected as non significant. It would not surprise me if these are some of those studies.

I read the same studies.  I do not know if they were updated or refuted.  The studies used to support legislation either had very poor control groups or the legislators did not care, but why would they?

The common factor with the greatest effect was the distraction caused by using any phone or even talking to a passenger in the car; it was the intellectual distraction and not the physical distraction.  None of the studies covered it but I wonder if using a two way radio where only one side can talk at a time like with amateur radio is less distracting.

Many such studies employ young students---- they work cheap, & are less likely to consider the study nonsense.
They also tend to use simulated traffic situations.

The two things may cause errors because-

(1) The participants have very little experience in driving in the real world, & are still in the "panic" stage" where they have to actively "think through" the very mechanics of driving.
Experienced drivers perform the normal tasks of driving subconciously, so their attention is available to analyse traffic situations, despite alleged distractions.

(2) "Simulations" don't reproduce the driving experience all that well, so the "noob" may be fixated on that difference, become easily distracted, & miss vital traffic information.

It seems that the "distraction" idea has been extended out of all proportion to the original obvious problem of people looking at their mobile phones while driving.i


All of the other things have been around nearly as long as cars have, with little statistical record of them causing accidents.
Most things a driver might do were designed to be possible using just the sense of touch.
Driving itself, for example:-
With a manual gearbox, do you ever look at the shift pattern diagram on the gear knob?
Look at the headlight switch, or wiper switch?

Car radios were for years made with pressbuttons so pre tuned stations could be selected.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 06:14:36 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2019, 09:10:43 am »
Multiple studies have demonstrated that a handsfree phone is no safer than holding one in your hand, so why is it silly?

Please provide links to such  "studies"
If you remove the common distraction variable "phone conversation" from the parameters that study would show that driving with one hand is just as safe as driving with both hands on the wheel.
I find that very hard to believe. Perhaps the difference is below the noisefloor of the study but last five years a multitude of socialpstchology studies have been redone and rejected as non significant. It would not surprise me if these are some of those studies.

I read the same studies.  I do not know if they were updated or refuted.  The studies used to support legislation either had very poor control groups or the legislators did not care, but why would they?

The common factor with the greatest effect was the distraction caused by using any phone or even talking to a passenger in the car; it was the intellectual distraction and not the physical distraction.  None of the studies covered it but I wonder if using a two way radio where only one side can talk at a time like with amateur radio is less distracting.

Many such studies employ young students---- they work cheap, & are less likely to consider the study nonsense.
They also tend to use simulated traffic situations.

The two things may cause errors because-

(1) The participants have very little experience in driving in the real world, & are still in the "panic" stage" where they have to actively "think through" the very mechanics of driving.
Experienced drivers perform the normal tasks of driving subconciously, so their attention is available to analyse traffic situations, despite alleged distractions.

(2) "Simulations" don't reproduce the driving experience all that well, so the "noob" may be fixated on that difference, become easily distracted, & miss vital traffic information.

It seems that the "distraction" idea has been extended out of all proportion to the original obvious problem of people looking at their mobile phones while driving.i


All of the other things have been around nearly as long as cars have, with little statistical record of them causing accidents.
Most things a driver might do were designed to be possible using just the sense of touch.
Driving itself, for example:-
With a manual gearbox, do you ever look at the shift pattern diagram on the gear knob?
Look at the headlight switch, or wiper switch?

Car radios were for years made with pressbuttons so pre tuned stations could be selected.

The other controls I need to over by touch alone are temperature, ventilation, windows.

On scopes I want to change tmebase and the vertical sensitivity controls without taking my eyes off the circuit or screen.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #218 on: August 25, 2019, 09:12:28 am »
I still use a Tek 2235 although I'm looking to get a modern digital scope as well.

That's rational; use the right tool for the job, taking account f their characteristics.

My principal objection is withnpeole that claim you can't do anything useful with an analogue scope.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #219 on: August 25, 2019, 09:39:14 am »

Multiple studies have demonstrated that a handsfree phone is no safer than holding one in your hand, so why is it silly?

I'm not sure precisely why, but talking on a phone is more distracting than talking to a passenger. Perhaps because a passenger is in the same car and can intuitively tell when the driver needs to focus on driving, I don't know.

I pick my missus up from Heathrow on a regular basis, and have started asking her to quit the inevitable jibba jabba until we’re away from the complexities of the road layout at the airport, and are on the relative calm of the motorway.

I simply won’t be listening to a word she’s saying when the driving is taking up so much of my mental capacity. Of course, a week later in conversation, and in exasperation, she’ll say “You weren’t listening, I already told you that”.

Equally, I would be avoiding phone calls in a similar situation.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #220 on: August 25, 2019, 12:42:35 pm »

Multiple studies have demonstrated that a handsfree phone is no safer than holding one in your hand, so why is it silly?

I'm not sure precisely why, but talking on a phone is more distracting than talking to a passenger. Perhaps because a passenger is in the same car and can intuitively tell when the driver needs to focus on driving, I don't know.

I pick my missus up from Heathrow on a regular basis, and have started asking her to quit the inevitable jibba jabba until we’re away from the complexities of the road layout at the airport, and are on the relative calm of the motorway.

I simply won’t be listening to a word she’s saying when the driving is taking up so much of my mental capacity. Of course, a week later in conversation, and in exasperation, she’ll say “You weren’t listening, I already told you that”.

Equally, I would be avoiding phone calls in a similar situation.

My attitude precisely.

Unfortunately there are youngsters that haven't had time to make mistakes (yet), and people with Dunning-Kruger syndrome. So laws and enforcement are needed.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #221 on: August 25, 2019, 01:39:54 pm »
I simply won’t be listening to a word she’s saying when the driving is taking up so much of my mental capacity. Of course, a week later in conversation, and in exasperation, she’ll say “You weren’t listening, I already told you that”.

LOL. Why that sounds familiar? I have no idea, really...

Jokes aside, I agree with you, when it's complicated, you better concentrate on driving. You can chit chat later when you survive the traffic..
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #222 on: September 18, 2019, 09:42:15 pm »
Many such studies employ young students---- they work cheap, & are less likely to consider the study nonsense.
They also tend to use simulated traffic situations.

You can consider the studies any way you like, however they certainly align with my own experiences. I *know* that I have difficulty driving and holding a conversation at the same time, it is super distracting and when on a phone conversation I cannot just trail off when I need to focus on the road the way I can talking to a passenger next to me who will clearly see that I am focused on driving the car. I don't care whether it's legal or not, I refuse to talk on the phone, hands free or otherwise while I'm driving a car, at least not around here where traffic is heavy most of the time. If I were out on a rural highway it would be different but in a busy metro area one really needs to focus.

I know lots of people who think they are great at multitasking but having ridden with them I cannot name a single one who actually is. They all start making careless mistakes once they get on the phone, whether something benign like missing their turn or something dangerous like running a stop sign or red light.

I had not heard of Dunning-Kruger syndrome until very recently but that describes a lot of people very well. I see it literally every single day when I'm on the road, idiots blabbing on their phone drifting out of their lane, driving 10 under the speed limit, changing lanes without even looking, doing the speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down thing, merging without looking, etc. It has gotten so bad that I don't even like to drive around here anymore unless I have to.
 

Offline Martin.M

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #223 on: September 19, 2019, 03:21:04 pm »
Is this what they mean by an analog storage scope?
(Attachment Link)

hello Alex,
your 547 is amazing but this what you are asking for is the Tek 549 storage oscilloscope.  :)

Tek Oldies have it in the name, they are:

oscilloscope
dual beam oscilloscope 
storage oscilloscope
digitizing oscilloscope
digital storage oscilloscope

.. behind the TYPE number.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 03:28:29 pm by Martin.M »
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Do You still use analog oscilloscopes in 2019?
« Reply #224 on: September 19, 2019, 04:12:50 pm »
Is this what they mean by an analog storage scope?


hello Alex,
your 547 is amazing but this what you are asking for is the Tek 549 storage oscilloscope.  :)
Martin, Alex probably meant physical storage of stuff on top of his 547, not electron storage in the oscilloscope internal circuits...   :-DD

We have an old Tektronix TDS3014 that features both types of storage! The battery compartment in the back fits all sorts of things when no battery is installed.  :-+
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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