Author Topic: DS1054z Issue (Read 17852 times)

TheSteve · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2016, 07:27:08 am »

Quote from: blabla on March 05, 2016, 07:13:52 am

Wim, do you still have the sp1 firmware file? If so, please post. I'd like to try older version to see if bug follows it.

TheSteve - does the -S series use the same firmware as the non-S series? If not, then it may not be effected.

Yes, same firmware, same hardware with a little add on board for the AWG.

blabla · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2016, 07:30:17 am »

So 2 so far that can't replicate with older firmware. Please post if you have it still.

TheSteve · « **Reply #27 on:** March 05, 2016, 07:31:42 am »

I'll load the newest firmware and test again, stand by.

EDIT:

OK, loaded the newest firmware and guess what we see, yes it looks terrible. So it is either the newest firmware or it is because I need to run a self calibration(recommended after new firmware is loaded).

EDIT #2:

Went back to the previous firmware and it is all good again.

blabla · « **Reply #28 on:** March 05, 2016, 07:46:23 am »

So it is possible to go back. Can you attach the firmware file to a post?

TheSteve · « **Reply #29 on:** March 05, 2016, 07:48:53 am »

Quote from: blabla on March 05, 2016, 07:46:23 am

So it is possible to go back. Can you attach the firmware file to a post?

It is only possible to downgrade firmware on very early versions with a really old bootloader rev. I believe the bootloader was updated when the DS1054Z was released to prevent it. The DS1074Z came out a little earlier. They are the same hardware of course. The file it too large to attach to a post and it is doubtful it would work for you anyway.

You can find my post regarding downgrading here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-firmware-downgrade-*is*-possible-and-here-is-how/

_Wim_ · « **Reply #30 on:** March 05, 2016, 08:15:15 am »

Quote from: blabla on March 05, 2016, 07:13:52 am

Wim, do you still have the sp1 firmware file? If so, please post. I'd like to try older version to see if bug follows it.

TheSteve - does the -S series use the same firmware as the non-S series? If not, then it may not be effected.

I think it is this one (I have more version on my harddrive, but the rigol names for the files is not clear). First unzip both files, then you get 4 parts and unzip again (this was the only option to attach this file to this forum I could find)

blabla · « **Reply #31 on:** March 05, 2016, 08:32:37 am »

It recognizes the file is older but still lets me press ok to attempt the flash. It goes through reading gel, then analyzing, then fails. There's bound to be some way to bypass the check.

I found the Agilent version firmware that rigol makes. That went through the same steps except it never gave a failure message. Seemed like it stalled at the analyzing step and never moved after several minutes. Didn't brick though, powercycle and seems fine afterwords.

markone · « **Reply #32 on:** March 05, 2016, 12:30:26 pm »

The darn bug is present also in mine DS1074Z, last FW version installed :

Even if it has an earlier boot looader version, it does not allow the downgrade.

So the Rigol's coder messed up some memory pointer with RMS function, one reason more to issue a new decent FW release.

Software crosstalk in DSO, a new frontier

I wonder if someone get screwed with it in some serious job ...

markone · « **Reply #33 on:** March 05, 2016, 12:37:43 pm »

Quote from: blabla on March 05, 2016, 08:32:37 am

It recognizes the file is older but still lets me press ok to attempt the flash. It goes through reading gel, then analyzing, then fails. There's bound to be some way to bypass the check.

I found the Agilent version firmware that rigol makes. That went through the same steps except it never gave a failure message. Seemed like it stalled at the analyzing step and never moved after several minutes. Didn't brick though, powercycle and seems fine afterwords.

You have to try the procedure that implies to push three times the help button right after the first beep during the scope boot sequence, search the forum for that 3ad.

blabla · « **Reply #34 on:** March 05, 2016, 05:11:56 pm »

Mark I tried that with the file Wim posted, didn't work. Eventually it just flashed all the LEDs on the unit. May do that with the Agilent firmware.

I also found a article where someone opened the firmware in a hex editor. The version number only appears at the beginning of the file one time. I tried changing the older firmware to have the newer number but that didn't work either. There must be some other hash or crc check.

I guess this isn't a huge deal if you only use one channel at a time. If you use multiple channels though the error adds up as my second post shows. Applying 120vrms to channel 1 and 2, vrms indicates 130something on 2

markone · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2016, 05:24:00 pm »

Quote from: blabla on March 05, 2016, 05:11:56 pm

Eventually it just flashed all the LEDs on the unit.

Very same thing with mine scope, so i gave up.

TheSteve · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2016, 08:22:55 pm »

Quote from: markone on March 05, 2016, 12:30:26 pm

Even if it has an earlier boot looader version, it does not allow the downgrade.

It most certainly works if you have bootloader versions 0.0.0.11 or 0.0.0.13.

markone · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2016, 10:41:59 pm »

Quote from: TheSteve on March 05, 2016, 08:22:55 pm

Quote from: markone on March 05, 2016, 12:30:26 pm

Even if it has an earlier boot looader version, it does not allow the downgrade.

It most certainly works if you have bootloader versions 0.0.0.11 or 0.0.0.13.

System info reports 0.0.1.1

TheSteve · « **Reply #38 on:** March 06, 2016, 01:43:26 am »

Quote from: markone on March 05, 2016, 10:41:59 pm

Quote from: TheSteve on March 05, 2016, 08:22:55 pm
Quote from: markone on March 05, 2016, 12:30:26 pm

Even if it has an earlier boot looader version, it does not allow the downgrade.

It most certainly works if you have bootloader versions 0.0.0.11 or 0.0.0.13.

System info reports 0.0.1.1

That is a higher rev bootloader - so no downgrading is possible.

blabla · « **Reply #39 on:** March 06, 2016, 03:05:35 am »

Is board version the same as bootloader version? In system info my ds1054z only shows manufacturer, model, sn, software ver, and board ver. Or is there another menu I don't know about

TheSteve · « **Reply #40 on:** March 06, 2016, 03:10:30 am »

Quote from: blabla on March 06, 2016, 03:05:35 am

Is board version the same as bootloader version? In system info my ds1054z only shows manufacturer, model, sn, software ver, and board ver. Or is there another menu I don't know about

You can see the detailed system information by pressing "menu menu force menu" quickly, then pressing "utility","system", "system info".

blabla · « **Reply #41 on:** March 06, 2016, 03:26:01 am »

That worked. Interesting... software version and firmware version are listed separately and are different.

Scottjd · « **Reply #42 on:** March 06, 2016, 05:55:43 am »

I Just have to ask. I skimmed the posts and saw Steve mention a recalibration but then he back tracked firmware and all was good again. Some firmware update may not compensate for the calibration changes made in the firmware. So the new firmware still read the older calibration that was done for the setting on the old firmware. And I know alsetalokin4017 has a lot of experience with finding/tracking bugs.

But no were did I see a conformation that someone updated to the latest firmware, let the scope reach full warm up, run a self calibration and double check the probes calibration on each channel to confirm the probes are still reading in spec. or adjust them if needed.

Has anyone followed the above procedure to rule this out. I saw one instance a while ago were one probe saw the signal correctly but channel 2 didn't see the same as on channel 1. Same signal, even swapped the probes on the channels and saw the same irregularity. Then I did a recall and checked the probes then when I tested the same signal both channels saw the same thing identically. So from past experience this has fixed irregularities with mine.

So that's why I ask for conformation before running with calling it a bug, and then trying to figure out why some scopes see this and other don't. Maybe going forward we make the warm up and recallabration a required step when trying to confirm bugs or testing new firmware. It might rule out some of these inconstancies.

I've followed several bug finds and never see people mention these steps and it makes me wonder?

TheSteve · « **Reply #43 on:** March 06, 2016, 05:57:55 am »

Someone with the newest firmware and the problem should certainly run the self cal with the scope warmed up to verify 100% for certain the problem is still present.

blabla · « **Reply #44 on:** March 06, 2016, 06:19:19 am »

I ran a calibration when someone previously had asked if I did or not and got the same result. Sorry, Thought I stated it but guess I didn't. I wasn't sure how long the scope was on but it wasn't just a few minutes. My scopes now been on a few hours now and I'm running another and will report back shortly.

This is definitely bug territory though. Changing the volts/div on the channel with the probe scales the error on the channel without the probe. Changing the volts/div on the channel without the probe also changes the phantom vrms. Another poster said it showed the error on the channel with no probe while the coupling was set to ground. That should remove any doubt.

Edit: As predicted and expected, same after another calibration.

Edit 2: Another interesting tidbit - if probe is in channel 1, but the only measurement displayed is vrms2, it reads close to 0 as it should. The moment you turn on vrms1 variable, vrms2 jumps up.

markone · « **Reply #45 on:** March 06, 2016, 11:48:29 pm »

Quote from: blabla on March 06, 2016, 06:19:19 am

Edit: As predicted and expected, same after another calibration.

Edit 2: Another interesting tidbit - if probe is in channel 1, but the only measurement displayed is vrms2, it reads close to 0 as it should. The moment you turn on vrms1 variable, vrms2 jumps up.

Current RMS readings are actually nonsense, it's a so cumbersome bug that it shouldn't be a challange to fix for the coders.

Is there any ways to officially commit this situation to Rigol ?

blabla · « **Reply #46 on:** March 07, 2016, 01:05:49 am »

I used the contact us form on their site and pointed them to this thread yesterday. Hopefully Dave gets wind of this thread and sends it to his contacts.

CustomEngineerer · « **Reply #47 on:** March 07, 2016, 01:16:28 am »

I seriously doubt Dave spends his time combing through the threads looking for bugs to report to his "contacts". If the bug was preventing him from actually using the scope, like when he's making a review video, then he might take the time to let them know about a bug, but he's not going to send along every bug that gets discussed in the forums. I'm not sure what the proper channels are to submit a bug to Rigol because I've never had the need to try, but the contact tech support on the Rigol site seems to make sense.

blabla · « **Reply #48 on:** March 07, 2016, 04:27:53 am »

Quote from: CustomEngineerer on March 07, 2016, 01:16:28 am

I seriously doubt Dave spends his time combing through the threads looking for bugs to report to his "contacts".

Huh??? Lol I never insinuated that... IF he stumbles upon this thread it'd be nice for him to pass it along. No more, No less.

Mechatrommer · « **Reply #49 on:** March 07, 2016, 06:14:54 am »

Quote from: markone on March 06, 2016, 11:48:29 pm

Is there any ways to officially commit this situation to Rigol ?

since you discovered it, its your responsibility... http://www.rigolna.com/tech-support/


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Author Topic: DS1054z Issue (Read 17852 times)

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