EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: dfox416 on December 20, 2013, 08:56:01 am
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I am thinking about buying a a rigol ds1074z. Do you think it is worth the extra money to get the built in waveform generator? Right now I use a simpson 420 function gen ( analog sine,square, triangle up to 1MHz) and I mostly work with audio circuits. Should I just get the ds1074z and use the function gen I have, should I pay more for the ds1074z-s, or should I get the d1074z and buy a new separate waveform generator if/when I need it? Thanks.
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They built in function generator is not the best, specifications are the bare minimum, difficult to change freq and ampl with only a rotary dial (with few steps per turn).
No trigger output, but it have 2 channels though.
You get what you pay for basically.
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I've never been a fan of all-in-one instruments. Besides, the price difference almost buys you a Siglent SDG1000 series function generator.
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I've never been a fan of all-in-one instruments. Besides, the price difference almost buys you a Siglent SDG1000 series function generator.
It is very convenient with a signal gen in the scope, it doesn't take any more space or add significant weight to the scope. It also has a lot of potential since the scope could communicate internally. Such as simulating a signal captured with the scope or trigger internally without extra BNC cables!
But on the DS1000Z-S you don't even have a trigger output to start with, and no internal features. Is it equally bad on the Agilent scopes with signal gen? And you would never expect or rely on serious performance of a built in signal generator in a scope.
By the way the Sigilent SDG1025 is almost twice the price, at least here in Sweden.
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If I want a function generator I don't want to have to bring a scope. Sometimes I have several test setups in which one requires a scope and the other a function generator. The price difference doesn't by an SDG1025 but an SDG1010 is doable. The built-in function generator in the Rigol DS1000Z-S only does 5Vpp into a high-z load where the SDS1000 series can output 20Vpp into a high-z load. IMHO a function generator should be able to output at least 20Vpp into a high-z load. Lots of industrial gear uses 0..10V signals!
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Is this also the verdict for the signal gen in ds2000a-s?
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I find it convenient actually. Saves space, and to get 25MHz you usually pay quite a bit more than the markup for the -S.
I agree though that the user interface is not the best. But there's a serial interface, and I'm hoping the signal generator is configurable using that as well (haven't checked yet). Once the UI annoys me enough, I might write a little script to control it from a PC.
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If I want a function generator I don't want to have to bring a scope. Sometimes I have several test setups in which one requires a scope and the other a function generator. The price difference doesn't by an SDG1025 but an SDG1010 is doable. The built-in function generator in the Rigol DS1000Z-S only does 5Vpp into a high-z load where the SDS1000 series can output 20Vpp into a high-z load. IMHO a function generator should be able to output at least 20Vpp into a high-z load. Lots of industrial gear uses 0..10V signals!
I agree!
But there is really no downside to have a second signal generator always present inside the scope at all times, especially if the software would enable special debugging/triggering/recording options internally (since it is the same instrument).
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I just looked through the manual but it seems there is not connection between the scope and the function generator part. It would have been really useful to have the scope trigger on the function generator so you can look at filter responses. To make things worse the scope doesn't have an external trigger input.
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To make things worse the scope doesn't have an external trigger input.
You do. 4 of them, actually. Right on the front of the case :)
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To make things worse the scope doesn't have an external trigger input.
You do. 4 of them, actually. Right on the front of the case :)
Yes you have 4 input channels, but you have no external trigger output, so they are of no use if using modulated signals or sweeps, where you do not have an easy way of triggering on the signal you are outputting.
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But there's a serial interface, and I'm hoping the signal generator is configurable using that as well (haven't checked yet). Once the UI annoys me enough, I might write a little script to control it from a PC.
Looks like it is http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0386/1/-/-/-/-/DS1000Z_Programming%20Guide_EN.pdf (http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0386/1/-/-/-/-/DS1000Z_Programming%20Guide_EN.pdf)
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I have at least 4 FG's of various ages and brands, but none go to 25mhz. my best (agilent) goes to 15.
if you can afford it, get it built in. you are not forced to use it, but maybe you need that higher speed. for other times and for better flexibility, get an outboard one, too.
I do like the agilent that I got and they can sometimes be found for a good price (I waited until one came up at the $300 range, roughly) - agilent 33120a. good user interface, nice display, good remote mgmt (well documented) and its not a POS from china ;)
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I have at least 4 FG's of various ages and brands, but none go to 25mhz. my best (agilent) goes to 15.
if you can afford it, get it built in. you are not forced to use it, but maybe you need that higher speed. for other times and for better flexibility, get an outboard one, too.
I do like the agilent that I got and they can sometimes be found for a good price (I waited until one came up at the $300 range, roughly) - agilent 33120a. good user interface, nice display, good remote mgmt (well documented) and its not a POS from china ;)
Ah yes the 33120A. A brilliant device in almost every aspect. Agilent donated me one ;D
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I bought the DS1074Z-S mainly because I didn't want to wait 2 months for the non -S version to get back in stock anywhere, plus I don't have a descent function generator anyway. My impression sofar is that it's better then nothing. It does do 16k pts arbitrary which is pretty nice, though I couldn't find ANY software that could work on it's .arb file format so I made one (thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/source-for-arb-waveforms (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/source-for-arb-waveforms)).
I am glad I got the -S version to be honest, because like I said I don't have any descent function gen otherwise. Sine for me looked pretty damn good all the way to 25MHz, arb and built-in can get weird at higher frequencies, modulation works but I feel it's a bit limited, I.E. only up to 50KHz frequency and 1KHz deviation, and no ability to modulate an external signal. If I didn't really need / want 4 channel I probably would of went with the DS2072 instead.
As a scope I love it sofar, there are a few UI bugs that hopefully get fixed soon enough.
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I have at least 4 FG's of various ages and brands, but none go to 25mhz. my best (agilent) goes to 15.
if you can afford it, get it built in. you are not forced to use it, but maybe you need that higher speed. for other times and for better flexibility, get an outboard one, too.
I do like the agilent that I got and they can sometimes be found for a good price (I waited until one came up at the $300 range, roughly) - agilent 33120a. good user interface, nice display, good remote mgmt (well documented) and its not a POS from china ;)
Ah yes the 33120A. A brilliant device in almost every aspect. Agilent donated me one ;D
yeah, I remember reading about that ;)
a guy who follows my photostream commented about it being an old clunker, but maybe he's just used to the very latest gear.
wish there was no fan. I hate fans. why don't they even try to make things naturally cooled? is that too much to ask? ;)
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I have at least 4 FG's of various ages and brands, but none go to 25mhz. my best (agilent) goes to 15.
if you can afford it, get it built in. you are not forced to use it, but maybe you need that higher speed. for other times and for better flexibility, get an outboard one, too.
I do like the agilent that I got and they can sometimes be found for a good price (I waited until one came up at the $300 range, roughly) - agilent 33120a. good user interface, nice display, good remote mgmt (well documented) and its not a POS from china ;)
Ah yes the 33120A. A brilliant device in almost every aspect. Agilent donated me one ;D
yeah, I remember reading about that ;)
a guy who follows my photostream commented about it being an old clunker, but maybe he's just used to the very latest gear.
wish there was no fan. I hate fans. why don't they even try to make things naturally cooled? is that too much to ask? ;)
The thing is, Agilent's fan is a high pitched whiny one. The slow whoosh of the DS1074Z is one thing, but the whiny noise is pure annoying.
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yes, very annoying!
wonder if there is a good replacement that would give enough airflow and be tolerable for noise.
I just ordered a new fan (from mouser) that is supposed to be the correct one for the tek 2465 scope. that one (that I have) is also old and noisy.
similarly, I have an hp PSU, the E3645A that I also recently got and that damned thing has a noisy fan, too. it seems that as I go 'more modern' in test gear, they all seem to now have fans. lazy engineers! yeah yeah, have to keep with the standard small box, but still, can't you guys at least try to use non-forced air cooling? what's wrong with big-ass heatsinks on the back, like the older HP PSUs had?