Author Topic: DSOX2000 and 3000 series - licence , have anyone tried to hack that scope ?  (Read 692663 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4966
  • Country: gb
BTW, what do you think about these C-L-R networks? Are they some kind of feedback paths? I don't think they are direct signal paths.

They are balanced filters, as opposed to single ended ones.

Quote
Also, did you notice difference in MarkL's 1GHz AA filter?

Hmm, that's a bit scary. It seems unlikely to be a simple upgrade to 1GHz in that case. 1GHz on a HiZ input is of little value, most high speed probing systems are 50 ohm.

Quote
They use a kind of parallel path C-R path in addition to usual LC ladder scheme.

It looks like it's just trying to boost the HF end a bit. What's nice to see is that they do what I do in these situations with lumped filters, model a reasonable attempt but leave plenty of optional pads for improvement after the spin for the real world.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4966
  • Country: gb
Before I disassemble the scope and lift the shield again, can you identify all the parts you need to know?

Lifting the shield isn't hard but it's a bit fiddly and time consuming as the gap between shields doesn't leave much room to get a decent amount of localised heat on the mounting joints.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
Before I disassemble the scope and lift the shield again, can you identify all the parts you need to know?

Hmm, should I be greedy or conservative?
Please look at attached photos. Red dots are for possibly critical components, yellow it for just interesting.
Top layer: 5 red, 4 yellow.
Bot layer: 4 red, 3 yellow.
Fell free to discard yellow comps if that would take too much time.

Thanks in advance!
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline TheSteve

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3160
  • Country: ca
  • Living the Dream
How are you starting the firmware, and what version? Do you have a LAN card so you can telnet into the unit?
ATM I don't have a LAN and my FW is 2.41.
I've never touched the software part yet.
I think I'll replicate most of the values from your photos on one of the channel and try to directly measure ASIC output bandwidth with another scope. I don't think the ASIC itself could be digitally controlled for BW limit.

I'm not too averse to desoldering to measure, I have a pretty decent E12 stock of Ls (WW as well as ML), Cs and Rs in stock if necessary. In the event of disaster, there's always another channel ;-)
Nice! You seem to have a great reverser's setup. Although I feel I maybe asking too much about desoldering.
I don't think inductors needed be measured since they are marked and you can tell their value by both marks and number of wire turns. But capacitors are real headache. I can't measure single pF's accurately.

BTW, what do you think about these C-L-R networks? Are they some kind of feedback paths? I don't think they are direct signal paths.
Also, did you notice difference in MarkL's 1GHz AA filter? They use a kind of parallel path C-R path in addition to usual LC ladder scheme.

I think you need to get a LAN card - you could then easily switch between 100 and 200 MHz bandwidth and probe to see where the bandwidth is actually changing.
VE7FM
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
I think you need to get a LAN card - you could then easily switch between 100 and 200 MHz bandwidth and probe to see where the bandwidth is actually changing.
I expect to make a DIY board in a week.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline plesa

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 965
  • Country: se
WOW, thanks guys for this thread resurrection, quite amazing findings.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline tonyc

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: us
How are you starting the firmware, and what version? Do you have a LAN card so you can telnet into the unit?
ATM I don't have a LAN and my FW is 2.41.
I've never touched the software part yet.
I think I'll replicate most of the values from your photos on one of the channel and try to directly measure ASIC output bandwidth with another scope. I don't think the ASIC itself could be digitally controlled for BW limit.

I'm not too averse to desoldering to measure, I have a pretty decent E12 stock of Ls (WW as well as ML), Cs and Rs in stock if necessary. In the event of disaster, there's always another channel ;-)
Nice! You seem to have a great reverser's setup. Although I feel I maybe asking too much about desoldering.
I don't think inductors needed be measured since they are marked and you can tell their value by both marks and number of wire turns. But capacitors are real headache. I can't measure single pF's accurately.

BTW, what do you think about these C-L-R networks? Are they some kind of feedback paths? I don't think they are direct signal paths.
Also, did you notice difference in MarkL's 1GHz AA filter? They use a kind of parallel path C-R path in addition to usual LC ladder scheme.

I think you need to get a LAN card - you could then easily switch between 100 and 200 MHz bandwidth and probe to see where the bandwidth is actually changing.

How do you switch from 100 to 200Mhz with a LAN card?
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline plesa

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 965
  • Country: se
How do you switch from 100 to 200Mhz with a LAN card?

there are BW comandline parameters, for instance BW50 switch bandwidth to 500MHz.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
i have that file still localy and remote on hotfile

https://hotfile.com/dl/131446259/df706bb/3000XSeries.01.10.2011031600.cab.html

Do someone still have this file or url to download it?
Thanks!
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
I have the 1 GHz version MSO-X 3104A and can take some pictures tomorrow.
May be that helps you.

Any news by the chance?
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
Will try my best to get to it in the next two days
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
Can confirm that this is definitely the case. There's a hardware difference.
Not sure if I have the right to ask, but I'll try  ;)
What's the difference between factory and user calibration for 3000-series? Do I need to use high-grade BNC cables and fixtures for user calibration? How critical are they?

Are there any factory-only calibrations I can ruin so hard so user calibration won't help to recover accuracy?
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline plesa

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 965
  • Country: se
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
Ok, I took my Agilent MSOX-3104A apart
Here are the pictures.
Is this what you are looking for?
Any details I need to look for?
Anything in detail that needs to be taking pictures of?
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, memset

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
more
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, memset

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
And more....

By removing the can, I think I lifted one of the ground pads.
Solderwick did not help to remove all the solder
I had to add some leaded solder to make it flow easier
Hopefully this is not a problem for the re-Assembly

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, memset

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
And here are some details from under the can.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, memset

Offline Wiljan

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: dk
For those who want to see how to disassemble the 2000/3000 and who want to some details on boards difference have a look in the part list in this pdf.

"Agilent 2000/3000 X-Series Oscilloscopes Service Guide http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/75019-97038.pdf
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
And here are some details from under the can.

Thank you!
Could you please confirm top marking on this SOT-23 device (see attachment)?
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
More details
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Pinkus, Andrew, memset

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
Looking at my own pictures, I am surprised how many fibers are hanging there on the components.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
More details

Amazing! Thank you!
Looks like it would be possible to boost any board to 1GHz. This will require building of additional circuit around Teledyne attenuator relay.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4516
  • Country: de
So, I can re-assemble my scope?
Or do you need anything else, while it is open
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline memset

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: ru
So, I can re-assemble my scope?
Or do you need anything else, while it is open
Sure. I don't think anything else is needed.
Thank you very much for your help!
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf