Author Topic: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)  (Read 34061 times)

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Offline LaurentR

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #150 on: March 08, 2018, 06:01:40 am »
Finally, the Matlab version:

Setup:
* E36313A (1.1.1 FW) in series mode. Current set to 1A. Voltage sweep from 0V to 3.5V.
* One DMM (3446XA) in DC current mode, fixed 3A range, directly plugged to the output of the PSU, as documented for the series mode (left terminal of Ch2 and right terminal of Ch3).
* One DMM (3446XA) in DC voltage mode, fixed 1V range, plugged to the same terminals.

What we see:
* 0-0.4V: CV mode. Readout voltage similar on PSU and DMM and ~= Set Voltage on PSU. Readout current similar on PSU and DMM and proportional to Set Voltage. All good.
* 0.4-1.3V: CC mode. Readout voltage constant and similar on PSU and DMM. Readout current similar on PSU and DMM and ~= 1A. All good.
* 1.3-1.6V: :scared: mode. Readout voltages agree but resume climbing. PSU readout current showing stable ~= 1A while actual current on DMM goes up.
* 1.6+V:  :-// CC mode. Everybody is constant again. Voltages agree but currents don't. PSU current claims ~= 1A while DMM ~= 1.1A. Voltages agree with DMM current, definitely not with PSU readout current.

I tried at 2A and it's pretty much the same with an inflection zone ~2.4-2.8V and at 0.5A, the zone is ~0.7-1.1V.
The inflection zone also changes with the burden voltage. With Set Current to 1A and comparing the 10A input of the 3446XA vs. the 3A input in 3A range, the burden voltage is ~0.058V vs 0.425V and the inflection zone is 0.59-0.85V vs. 1.32-1.66V.

I have an email out to Keysight. I'll keep everybody posted on this. I'd still be interested to see if somebody can reproduce it or if this is just my unit.


« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 06:58:51 am by LaurentR »
 
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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #151 on: March 08, 2018, 10:40:11 am »
It seems my unit does the same. I'll check to see if it matches your values later today.
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #152 on: March 08, 2018, 10:51:48 am »
So far I had not used Series or Parallel mode on my E36312A.
It seems my unit behaves very strangely, or I do something totally wrong.

When I set mode coupling to SERIES, I get the following:
- On the display it shows that Series Mode is turned on between CH2 and CH3
- When I turn all channels ON, only CH1 and CH2 light up as ON
- CH3 light is OFF
- CH3 carries 1V (set to 1V) (hmm ... weird)
- CH2 carries 1V (set to 1V)
- CH1 carries 1V (set to 1V)
- Output between CH2 and CH3 carries 0V
- Output between CH1 and CH2 carries 0 V
- If I add a series cable connection between CH1 and CH2 I get 2V on the output, although CH1 is set to 1V and CH2 is set to 2V

Hmm, big flaw it seems
Let me update to the latest FW and test again.

 


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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #153 on: March 08, 2018, 11:50:41 am »
OK, I should have done the FW update first and the series mode testing.
FW update was a success.
The series mode is working now.

However, I can confirm the strange increase from 1.0A to 1.1A by just increasing the output set voltage of the PSU.

Voltage set to 1V and current set to 1A results in 1A measured with the 34465A.
Increase set voltage slowly and at about 1.35V the current starts to increase.
At about 1.7V set voltage, the current has increased to 1.1A (10% error)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 12:34:13 pm by HighVoltage »
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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #154 on: March 08, 2018, 12:23:35 pm »
Mine does same, I had to increase 1.6V, current goes up to 1.0995A (K2002).
Same happens with lower Ilim (0.1A will give 10% limit error = 0.110A) when voltage set over 0.534V.
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #155 on: March 08, 2018, 01:51:21 pm »
One partial workaround ...

In series mode between CH2 and CH3, if you only use the output of CH2 and connect noting to CH3, the current will not increase by 10%.
But you are limited to 25V, so it defeats the purpose of series mode.
If you want above 25V output, you need to hook your cables up between CH2 and CH3 and the current may increase by 10% in all settings I tested.

Well, I would assume that these series mode inconsistencies can all be fixed by firmware and they are not hardware related.


Would be nice to get a statement from Keysight!
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #156 on: March 08, 2018, 04:13:55 pm »
I ordered a E36313A as well and delivery is confirmed Januari the 26st. Perhaps this model is produced in lower quantities or more popular than expected.
Mine arrived today so that is slightly ahead of schedule. I'm going to update the firmware first and do some tests.
As expected channel 1 still has a spike for several hundred ms when mains are applied: 7.7V when loaded with 820 Ohm and 12A when shorted.
Nico, the spike you are getting is coming when you power on the power supply or when you turn on the channel?

I tried to reproduce this on my E36312A (still with the original FW) and could not see anything on the output when the PS is turned on (the channel output is off anyways)

When switching on channel 1 with a load of 500\$\Omega\$ on 6V, I got the following:


When switching on channel 2 with the same load, the results were similar:


When switching on either channel 2 or 3 with the same load but with 25.75V, I got the following:

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #157 on: March 08, 2018, 04:21:07 pm »
I ordered a E36313A as well and delivery is confirmed Januari the 26st. Perhaps this model is produced in lower quantities or more popular than expected.
Mine arrived today so that is slightly ahead of schedule. I'm going to update the firmware first and do some tests.
As expected channel 1 still has a spike for several hundred ms when mains are applied: 7.7V when loaded with 820 Ohm and 12A when shorted.
Nico, the spike you are getting is coming when you power on the power supply or when you turn on the channel?
The spike occurs when you plug the mains in.
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #158 on: March 08, 2018, 04:33:04 pm »
I ordered a E36313A as well and delivery is confirmed Januari the 26st. Perhaps this model is produced in lower quantities or more popular than expected.
Mine arrived today so that is slightly ahead of schedule. I'm going to update the firmware first and do some tests.
As expected channel 1 still has a spike for several hundred ms when mains are applied: 7.7V when loaded with 820 Ohm and 12A when shorted.
Nico, the spike you are getting is coming when you power on the power supply or when you turn on the channel?
The spike occurs when you plug the mains in.
Wow... Ok. I don't think this can be fixed by firmware - the standby circuit is probably taking too long to kick in when powered.
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Offline LaurentR

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #159 on: March 08, 2018, 04:34:05 pm »
I got some basic answer from Keysight, but it'll take some more back and forth. I have pointed them to the thread.
Apparently, the fw change on series mode was related to OCP, not to anything like this.

Main issue update

I put the electronic load into service (CR mode) to put some more variety of loads on the supply and the issue is present all over up to 50V.

Basically, in CC mode, it seems that whenever the output voltage is less than approximately half the Set Voltage on the PSU, the PSU "silently" outputs 10% more current. That's a pretty broken CC mode.


"Manual" series mode

While at it, I tried the "manual" series mode as suggested by HighVoltage, i.e. connecting Ch2 and Ch3 externally and setting them to the same Set Voltage/Current (I also enabled tracking mode, but it shouldn't have any impact).

I don't see the issue, but Ch3 insists on being a drain (negative voltage). All voltages (including the negative one on Ch3) are confirmed by an external DMM.
This looks weird and I don't know if this is normal/expected behavior (I was expecting Ch2 and Ch3 to be more symmetric than this) and if it may be related to the main issue. At least, it's functionally correct overall.
I put the electronic load on it and Ch3 stays at -200mV all the way until Ch2 gets to 25V and switches to CV mode. Then Ch3 "takes overs" and voltage starts increasing from -200mV all the way to 25V, then it switches to CV mode...

Screen capture of the "manual" series mode (i.e. externally hooked up, same Set Voltage/Current) at the extreme where Ch2 has switched to CV mode and Ch3 is still lingering in CC mode with a negative voltage (2R4 load):
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 07:03:34 pm by LaurentR »
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #160 on: March 08, 2018, 06:54:45 pm »
Do you have a tracking ratio set between CH2 and CH3 that isn't 1:1?
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Offline LaurentR

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #161 on: March 08, 2018, 07:01:23 pm »
Do you have a tracking ratio set between CH2 and CH3 that isn't 1:1?

Tracking mode is pretty basic. It just makes the Set Voltage on Ch2 and Ch3 track, nothing else. There is no ratio I can find.
All in all, it's not relevant to the experiment.
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #162 on: March 08, 2018, 07:05:56 pm »
Ah, I think I just misunderstood the described behavior. I got it now, thanks.
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Offline LaurentR

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #163 on: March 08, 2018, 07:09:09 pm »
Ah, I think I just misunderstood the described behavior. I got it now, thanks.

Np. Your question prompted me to recheck the manual and update the original post to remove the (irrelevant) reference to tracking mode, so it's all for the best.
 
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Offline Andrew

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2018, 03:19:18 pm »
Keysight document "Keysight Technologies - Distribution Products Catalog" for March 2018:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5991-4833ENDI.pdf

Page 34 would appear to indicate the E36300A series will be replaced with a E36300B series. Possibly a hardware update?

 

Offline LaurentR

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2018, 05:02:03 pm »
Keysight document "Keysight Technologies - Distribution Products Catalog" for March 2018:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5991-4833ENDI.pdf

Page 34 would appear to indicate the E36300A series will be replaced with a E36300B series. Possibly a hardware update?

Good catch. The specs don't seem to be any different and the picture on the catalog is that of a A version, so I am not sure what the differences are (maybe a fix to the startup spikes and the not-really-off issues).
 
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Offline LaurentR

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #166 on: March 13, 2018, 05:07:10 pm »
On te series mode issue, Keysight has reproduced the issue in the US, then I got a "We are aware of this and R&D is currently working on it."

I have asked if this is a firmware fix or a E36300B fix and will report back if they commit to an answer.
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2018, 06:51:37 pm »
It's good to hear that there's a "B" version in the works. From the findings thus far, it seems the "A" version hasn't been quite where it should.
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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #168 on: March 13, 2018, 07:50:02 pm »
It's good to hear that there's a "B" version in the works. From the findings thus far, it seems the "A" version hasn't been quite where it should.
If the power on spikes don't get fixed in the A version through a firmware upgrade I expect Keysight to take my A version back and exchange it for a B version (or do an upgrade). It is not a particulary cheap power supply.
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Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #169 on: March 13, 2018, 08:24:29 pm »
Keysight document "Keysight Technologies - Distribution Products Catalog" for March 2018:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5991-4833ENDI.pdf

Page 34 would appear to indicate the E36300A series will be replaced with a E36300B series. Possibly a hardware update?

Good catch. The specs don't seem to be any different and the picture on the catalog is that of a A version, so I am not sure what the differences are (maybe a fix to the startup spikes and the not-really-off issues).

The E3610x series B version was just released, the spec sheet mainly shows notably reduced ripple under performance specifications (around 50-70% reduction is rms and pk-to-pk for most models). So that leaves me wondering why the B revision, rather than just keeping the same model and tightening the spec.
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #170 on: March 13, 2018, 08:29:50 pm »
Perhaps some corrections need hardware modification in addition to firmware support. So, the B version could go out now with the corresponding firmware changes to follow.
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Offline LaurentR

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #171 on: March 13, 2018, 08:37:20 pm »
The E3610x series B version was just released, the spec sheet mainly shows notably reduced ripple under performance specifications (around 50-70% reduction is rms and pk-to-pk for most models). So that leaves me wondering why the B revision, rather than just keeping the same model and tightening the spec.

Well, they turned the front panel gray on the E36100, so that's worth a major rev  ;D
They more or less seem to have done the same with the N6705C, which AFAICT is a N6705B, except gray and RoHS compliant.

Now, for the E36300B, I just got some feedback from Keysight: "We checked with marketing, and the document that shows the E36300"B"'s is in error. We recently came out with "B" versions of our small E36100 family, but not the 300's."
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #172 on: March 13, 2018, 08:39:14 pm »
Oopsie!
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2018, 01:28:51 pm »
Main issue update
(...)
Basically, in CC mode, it seems that whenever the output voltage is less than approximately half the Set Voltage on the PSU, the PSU "silently" outputs 10% more current. That's a pretty broken CC mode.
"Manual" series mode
Interestingly enough, I tested this earlier this morning and found out that my E36312A goes beyond its ratings: it puts out 1.1A in the output, while the PS is rated for 1A only.

I followed your method and I am using the latest firmware (updated two days ago).
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #174 on: March 14, 2018, 02:59:43 pm »
Interestingly enough, I tested this earlier this morning and found out that my E36312A goes beyond its ratings: it puts out 1.1A in the output, while the PS is rated for 1A only.

I followed your method and I am using the latest firmware (updated two days ago).
Yes, it seems all the E3631xA units have this problem with about 10% higher current output under some conditions. Hopefully Keysight can fix this with a FW update
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