Author Topic: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)  (Read 34863 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7889
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #175 on: March 14, 2018, 11:19:49 pm »
rsjsouza, are you referring to the incorrect output as compared to the display or that the supply can go beyond its maximum rating? I assumed the latter, but it sounds like HighVoltage assumed the former.

I think all my HPAK power supplies, covering several different decades, are able to go over their range. I've seen in some of the manuals where it's documented as being a feature, but accuracy is not guaranteed when going out that far.
I TEA.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline LaurentR

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 484
  • Country: us
Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #176 on: March 15, 2018, 12:44:42 am »
bitseeker, the E36300A cannot be programmed higher than they are specced, either through the front panel or through SCPI, so it I expect it is the former.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3405
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #177 on: March 15, 2018, 01:23:44 am »
Bitseeker, both. I see the behaviour that LaurentR is seeing: +10% of measured current output when the set output voltage is increased above a specific value when in CC mode. That goes up to 1A set but 1.1A measured in its output.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7889
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #178 on: March 15, 2018, 06:00:43 am »
I see, so it is the aforementioned bug. Thanks for the clarification.
I TEA.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline LaurentR

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 484
  • Country: us
Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #179 on: March 29, 2018, 03:39:52 pm »
On the series mode issue, Keysight has reproduced the issue in the US, then I got a "We are aware of this and R&D is currently working on it."

I got an update from Keysight today:
"We will have this fixed through firmware upgrade. The new firmware is expected to be available at K.com by early May."

Good news!
 
The following users thanked this post: rsjsouza, Andrew

Offline cowana

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: gb
Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #180 on: March 29, 2018, 04:11:27 pm »
That's good to know a new firmware update is on it's way. Hopefully it will also include a few improvements to make the UI slightly more intuitive (such as better rotary encoder acceleration).
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline TomS_

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 331
  • Country: gb
It has been some time since an updated was posted to this thread, I wonder if anyone has any news on fixes, current state, etc?

Im very quickly coming in to the market for a bench power supply, and this was looking like a reeeallly nice supply, but with all of the bugs etc I feel like Im falling back to the Rigol DP832 option.

I did have a read through the thread and there seemed to be good traction from Keysights end in response to the reported issues, so Im hoping that it is now becoming a top notch unit!

Thanks
Tom
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4252
  • Country: de
I am using my E36312A on a regular basis and it works very well. Since I know about the issues, I just don't use the instrument in those areas. I am sure Keysight will fix the issues over time with Firmware updates.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, TomS_

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3405
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Same here; the power supply is a top performer and the bugs reported are not critical to me.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, TomS_

Offline Omicron

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 116
  • Country: be
I bought a E36311A early on as it seemed perfect in terms of features and performance. I trusted the Keysight reputation. I have a main power switch on my bench that disconnects all my equipment from mains. I turn this off after work each day. Needless to say I got bit by the voltage spike issue. It didn't destroy the board I was working on fortunatly, but it did almost cause me a heart attack when I saw the LEDs on that (expensive) board flash when I powered up my bench! This power supply has been banned from my lab ever since and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, no matter how good it is in other respects. I simply don't trust it. If the issue can be fixed with a firmware update then they are surely taking their sweet time doing it. My guess is it can't be fixed in software and so they are keeping quiet. It'll take a lot before I buy another Keysight product.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17688
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
With the most recent firmware only channel 1 is affected. I made it a habit to disconnect everything from channel 1.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, TomS_

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4252
  • Country: de
Many many years ago, I was hit with a "crowbar issue" of an Agilent power supply that was killed and learned the hard way to always remove any connections from it, before doing a power cycle. So, it has become also a habit for me, to never leave anything connected.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew, TomS_

Offline Omicron

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 116
  • Country: be
In my opinion it is an unforgivable flaw. Especially for a company with the pedigree of Keysight. A power supply that is turned off should never be putting out energetic spikes on any of its outputs. If they had any decency they would recall these units. I bought this device but I refuse to defend it in any way.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3405
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
My guess is it can't be fixed in software and so they are keeping quiet.
That is my guess as well.

Many many years ago, I was hit with a "crowbar issue" of an Agilent power supply that was killed and learned the hard way to always remove any connections from it, before doing a power cycle. So, it has become also a habit for me, to never leave anything connected.
Despite I was never hit with such problem with a lab power supply, I was hit enough times with other types of supplies that I never take any soft switch systems for granted - either it has a mechanical disconnect (a.k.a. clunking switch) or I simply don't trust it.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17688
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
In my opinion it is an unforgivable flaw. Especially for a company with the pedigree of Keysight. A power supply that is turned off should never be putting out energetic spikes on any of its outputs. If they had any decency they would recall these units. I bought this device but I refuse to defend it in any way.
I agree that if Keysight can't fix this with a firmware upgrade they have to do a recall. Unfortunately even the A brands seem to push too hard to get gear on the market nowadays.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline LaurentR

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 484
  • Country: us
Keysight just published a new firmware that is supposed to fix the series-mode current issue I reported a while back. The release notes contain no other fixes. I haven't had a chance to try the new fw, but I wonder if it addresses some of the other pending issues.

https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?ckey=2880097&lc=eng&cc=US&nid=-35673.1215253&id=2880097
 
The following users thanked this post: rsjsouza, nctnico, pmcouto, Andrew

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17688
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Unfortunately this update doesn't fix the start-up spike on channel one  :'(
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline apblog

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Country: us
Have you guys seen this yet?  It looks like Keysight is aware of the power-on glitch problem and has a fix:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/E36313A-01.pdf

If I'm reading that right, you can either get a free replacement or possibly just a free repair until May 1 2019.

I've got a new one arriving here in a few days -- with a "good" serial number.

Last week, my Keysight dealer told me that they had sent all of their stock back to keysight in early May, presumably to be fixed.  He assured me that I'll be getting a unit that does not have the problem.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 09:01:52 pm by apblog »
 
The following users thanked this post: matseng, Andrew, bitseeker, rachaelp

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17688
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Thanks! I'm going to book a short trip for my E36313A!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline sdouble

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 241
  • Country: fr
I guess that the E36312A is also affected by that issue, right ?
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline apblog

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Country: us
I guess that the E36312A is also affected by that issue, right ?

Looks like it.

Here are the service notes for the E36311A and E36312A:

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/E36311A-01.pdf

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/E36312A-01.pdf
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline apblog

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Country: us
So, I just wanted to post an update.

My new E36313A is here, and it's great, I love it.   :-+  It's hard to get excited about a nice power supply, but it's a lot like having a good vise -- it's boring but it makes everything else easier.

They've mostly, but not entirely, fixed the voltage spike that occurs when you plug it in.

It still has a +/- 1.5 volt (max) glitch when you plug it in.  But it's only nanoseconds long instead of milliseconds as some people were reporting previously.   Little enough energy and low enough voltage to totally not be a problem for me.

Also I'm not seeing any sign of the UI bugs that people were reporting.

There are two features though that I would really like to have.

1. The ability to turn on/off the outputs simultaneously by pressing two buttons at once.  It turns out if you press two buttons at once it doesn't recognize either of them.  It does beep though, just to taunt you.  ;)

2. The abiliity to run the logging chart in continuous mode, so you can just keep it running and kind of keep an eye on it or look at it really quick if your board does something odd.

I love the high-res (1 mA) current readout.  :-+ It's great for keeping an eye on power consumption as I bring up the various peripherals on the board. 
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline adamgreig

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 16
  • Country: gb
    • Adam Greig
I emailed Keysight UK about the service note and they agreed to handle it under warranty :). They collected my E36312s and replaced them with new/refurb units with new serial numbers. Took about 2 weeks from collection to getting new ones, posted from Germany. Annoyingly they didn't post them in the original packaging, just in a box with some expanding foam bags, so while they were well packed it's a real pain to repack and the box won't hold the cardboard accessories box any more  :( I suggest sending yours in disposable boxes rather than the originals!

Anyway the power-up transient is hugely improved; I see about 6Vpp for 200ns or so into a 2R load, and roughly similar into 50R. With no load there's a bunch more high frequency ringing (around 30MHz?) but still only for a couple hundred nanoseconds. So that's still 2W into my load but only 0.4µJ... probably ok! Before we were getting DC 8V for 300ms so this is a lot better. Some scope captures: https://imgur.com/a/ucG1sRv

Internally the power PCBs are all the same revision, 005 for the mains /1ch PCB and 003 for the top board (other two channels), I couldn't check the front board but it looks identical too, so maybe the fix is a greenwire or component change rather than a new PCB. Not sure.

Standby power is still 11W, and barely goes up to 12.5W when turned on. Can't win everything!
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline LaurentR

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 484
  • Country: us
I emailed Keysight UK about the service note and they agreed to handle it under warranty :). They collected my E36312s and replaced them with new/refurb units with new serial numbers. Took about 2 weeks from collection to getting new ones, posted from Germany.

I sent mine in to Santa Rosa (I am in the US) last week, and much to my surprise, the unit was sent to Germany with a message "Received on 06/21/2018. In progress (Expected completion on 07/24/2018) Service performed by Boeblingen Germany Hub".

Since I thought this was going to be a quick exchange, I asked what was happening and got this: "This does need to go overseas to be evaluated first then we will supply the refurbished unit."
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew

Offline adamgreig

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 16
  • Country: gb
    • Adam Greig
Since I thought this was going to be a quick exchange, I asked what was happening and got this: "This does need to go overseas to be evaluated first then we will supply the refurbished unit."

I wonder what they need to evaluate, given it's their service note saying all units are affected! Mine was estimated completion 29th June but actually got posted on the 25th.
 
The following users thanked this post: Andrew


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf