Author Topic: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)  (Read 32744 times)

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Offline pe1oxp

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Just curious, how do they swap the power supplies? Do you get a 'new' one ore just one out of the poo which is modified?
This because mine are almost 'new in box' and won't get a replacement with a bunch of scratches
 
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Offline LaurentR

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Just curious, how do they swap the power supplies? Do you get a 'new' one ore just one out of the poo which is modified?
This because mine are almost 'new in box' and won't get a replacement with a bunch of scratches

I got mine back this week. I got a new unit (I had asked for it - not sure if that's std). Funnily enough, it didn't come with a box at all, it was brought by a Keysight-branded courier as is (they are not joking when telling you to not send any accessories - even the terminal blocks). My wife had no idea what it was and I found it laying on the kitchen table, side handle up  ::)
 
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Offline cowana

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(they are not joking when telling you to not send any accessories - even the terminal blocks)

Strangely my replacement came with the three sets of terminals attached (I hadn't sent in any on the unit I returned). It looks to be brand new and shows no signs of use - maybe terminal blocks get attached at some stage during calibration?

Return shipping was in a giant cardboard box, with those bags of expanding foam keeping it safely in the middle of the box.
 
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Offline nctnico

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(they are not joking when telling you to not send any accessories - even the terminal blocks)

Strangely my replacement came with the three sets of terminals attached (I hadn't sent in any on the unit I returned). It looks to be brand new and shows no signs of use - maybe terminal blocks get attached at some stage during calibration?

Return shipping was in a giant cardboard box, with those bags of expanding foam keeping it safely in the middle of the box.
Same here. I'm not quite happy with the way it got shipped back. I shipped mine back in the original box & packaging and was expecting to get it back the same way. I send the terminals back as well but the unit I received came with the terminal blocks so the people at Keysight have been paying attention.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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I shipped my E36312A in the original box today to Keysight Germany.
Looking forward, to how it will come back. Hopefully in the original box.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Just curious, how do they swap the power supplies? Do you get a 'new' one ore just one out of the poo which is modified?
This because mine are almost 'new in box' and won't get a replacement with a bunch of scratches

I got mine back this week. I got a new unit (I had asked for it - not sure if that's std). Funnily enough, it didn't come with a box at all, it was brought by a Keysight-branded courier as is (they are not joking when telling you to not send any accessories - even the terminal blocks). My wife had no idea what it was and I found it laying on the kitchen table, side handle up  ::)

Yeah, if you're within range of one of their couriers or shuttles, they'll hand deliver a replacement. The same thing happened to me with a DMM that was defective. I shipped the bad one to them. Some time later, they scheduled a drop date/time and the guy who arrived just handed me the replacement DMM (no box or accessories) with the usual big yellow envelope containing its calibration certificate. It looked new, but I felt it was a little odd that the meter didn't come in some kind of container. Great service, though.
I TEA.
 
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Offline capt bullshot

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Did anyone make a before-after comparison yet?
Not what the transient looks like, but in terms of what gets modified / replaced, or is there any component level instruction for the mod available, as with the "good old stuff"?
Safety devices hinder evolution
 
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Offline pe1oxp

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Just curious, how do they swap the power supplies? Do you get a 'new' one ore just one out of the poo which is modified?
This because mine are almost 'new in box' and won't get a replacement with a bunch of scratches

I got mine back this week. I got a new unit (I had asked for it - not sure if that's std). Funnily enough, it didn't come with a box at all, it was brought by a Keysight-branded courier as is (they are not joking when telling you to not send any accessories - even the terminal blocks). My wife had no idea what it was and I found it laying on the kitchen table, side handle up  ::)

Thanks for your reply. Will look for another box before I ship the power supply.  So I can keep the original box for calibration of repair.
Hopefully they will ship it back in a box otherwise it can be damaged at the local bookshop before i can pick it up
 
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Online TiN

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I've sent mine over a month ago, and still waiting. Supposed to be done 7/16 but there is "parts shortage" and no ETA.  :-BROKE
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Offline rsjsouza

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The whole process for me is taking more than a month, with the regular service being done in Germany. I am supposed to receive it next week. Hopefully they schedule a delivery time if they want to hand it off like others.

Regarding packing: if you have babies or toddlers, the package for bulk quantity of diapers and wipes is a good reasonable solution for most electronics. The power supply could fit in the largest box, but still with not much room for filler material. I then remembered I had purchased a large water pump a few weeks earlier and used that to send the PS.

Thr irony: after sending the PS via mail, a few weeks later Keysight sent me an email advertising their delivery program. :(
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #210 on: August 09, 2018, 04:45:57 am »
I shipped my E36312A on July 30th to Keysight Germany and received a new one today,
7 working days later. Great service, Thank you Keysight!

It was returned in a generic Keysight box, without any accessories.

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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #211 on: August 18, 2018, 01:32:17 pm »
Mine arrived today. It took a very long time (arrived at Keysight on Jun 28th) and, similarly to TiN, I was notified of a parts shortage.

The power supply was shipped back in a very large Keysight box (larger than the original) with pínk expanding foam that was entirely surrounding the power supply (yes, even the bottom).

The highest peak is quite narrow (40ns) and, at a load of 500\$\Omega\$ it spikes looks like the picture below (16vpp)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 01:34:03 pm by rsjsouza »
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline sdouble

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #212 on: August 18, 2018, 04:21:10 pm »
could someone proceed to the same measurement with a higher bandwidth scope ?
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #213 on: August 18, 2018, 04:30:34 pm »
With more than 500 MHz and 4GS/s ? What for? Few centimetres of cable will completely dominate what you see on a screen even at 500MHz..
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #214 on: August 18, 2018, 04:47:53 pm »
With more than 500 MHz and 4GS/s ? What for? Few centimetres of cable will completely dominate what you see on a screen even at 500MHz..
Not just that but what you see on screen is probably due to plugging in the mains and not a power up spike due to the PSU output. It will be very hard to generate such a spike across the output capacitors of a typical power supply.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #215 on: August 18, 2018, 07:08:27 pm »
One detail I forgot to mention is that the peak voltage varied a lot (the maximum I got was 21Vpp) but the waveform was quite consistent. The oscilloscope is in full BW mode (500MHz, as Sinisa mentioned).

This is the 6V output, BTW. I don't have a measurement of the signal before the repair.

Other aspects that were mentioned by others: the PS still draws 10W (!) in standby and the backlight still seems to be turned on all the time (there is a faint glow on the screen). |O
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 12:02:31 am by rsjsouza »
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #216 on: August 18, 2018, 10:20:24 pm »
You can try to measure the other outputs. I think you'll see the same signal.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #217 on: August 19, 2018, 01:21:35 am »
I think nctnico might be right. It  seems to be some kind of inductive spike from sudden switch on of transformer. I could replicate a version of it on 3 different linear PSU. Maybe some version of controlled phase switch on would be useful. Or it is practical short circuit on secondary (elkos after diode bridge)  that makes core go into saturation and makes some nonlinear kind of spike...
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #218 on: August 19, 2018, 04:15:58 am »
Other aspects that were mentioned by others: the PS still draws 10W (!) in standby and the backlight still seems to be turned on all the time (there is a faint glow on the screen). |O

Is the cooling fan still running like it was before?

I'm still puzzled by that vampire power draw. It's not like the thing has an OCXO in it. Does it boot faster from standby and, hence, needs 10W to keep it ready to turn on?
I TEA.
 
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Offline sdouble

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #219 on: August 19, 2018, 06:52:31 am »
I really suffered from the power on spike  from all 36312A that I bought for the lab.
I used them to power charge sensitive preamps. They killed a large number of the preamps, actually their input linear regulator (LT3042).
I would like to know how much of the initial issue remains : could I safely power my preamps with the modified 36312A.
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #220 on: August 19, 2018, 08:33:36 pm »
Some additional waveforms: 500Mhz Peakdetect mode in the same 500\$\Omega\$ load. Various runs were done that showed the same basic waveforms but with varying peaks.

Channel 1: the highest peak


Channel 2: the longest train of transients




Channel 3: the quietest


At any rate, the transient train does not seem to extend for much more than 300ns, which is quite the improvement over previous reports in the hundreds of ms. From these waveforms, the worst case would be 34V applied during all 300ns on the specified load, which would yield a total energy fo 690nJ.

Other aspects that were mentioned by others: the PS still draws 10W (!) in standby and the backlight still seems to be turned on all the time (there is a faint glow on the screen). |O

Is the cooling fan still running like it was before?

I'm still puzzled by that vampire power draw. It's not like the thing has an OCXO in it. Does it boot faster from standby and, hence, needs 10W to keep it ready to turn on?
The cooling fan runs all the time.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:36:23 pm by rsjsouza »
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #221 on: August 20, 2018, 06:34:39 am »
I'll do some tests myself when I can. I'm pretty sure these transients are induced into the ground loop between the PSU and the oscilloscope and are not actually present on the outputs.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online TheSteve

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #222 on: August 20, 2018, 07:27:36 am »
Someone perform the same tests with a handheld/battery powered/fully isolated scope.
VE7FM
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #223 on: August 20, 2018, 07:34:36 am »
Someone perform the same tests with a handheld/battery powered/fully isolated scope.
I was thinking about using a differential probe but I also have a MicSig tablet scope which is battery powered. It will probably be the end of the week when I can do some testing.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #224 on: August 20, 2018, 10:26:41 am »
That'll be interesting to see. Thanks, nctnico.
I TEA.
 
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