Author Topic: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)  (Read 33448 times)

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Online rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #225 on: August 20, 2018, 01:54:44 am »
You guys are onto something. I don't have a differential probe, but I did some measurements with the grounded oscilloscope at an outlet further away from the power supply. The amplitude is reduced in Ch1, despite some oscillation is still seen in Ch3 (grounded at the load). The picture below shows both channels plus Ch1-Ch3. All previous parameters are applicable.

Another interesting detail: if I switch the power supply continuously, the spike is reduced - perhaps some Y capacitors become a bit charged and dampen the spike.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #226 on: August 20, 2018, 06:30:47 am »
You guys are onto something. I don't have a differential probe, but I did some measurements with the grounded oscilloscope at an outlet further away from the power supply. The amplitude is reduced in Ch1, despite some oscillation is still seen in Ch3 (grounded at the load). The picture below shows both channels plus Ch1-Ch3. All previous parameters are applicable.

Another interesting detail: if I switch the power supply continuously, the spike is reduced - perhaps some Y capacitors become a bit charged and dampen the spike.

As I said, it is connected to large switch-on current transient, which is combined from current to establish magnetic field in a transformer, combined with virtual short circuit on secondary (made from bridge rectifier and large, empty capacitors). Probably a soft start circuit  would make it much better.
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #227 on: August 20, 2018, 03:30:16 pm »
Yes, I agree. The large switch-on current transient is most certainly the main transformer itself being connected at all times to the mains. The reason for my suspicion is that in standby it consumes 10W (17VA) and when it is turned on it increases by about 1W (11W / 18VA) - no load. The power factor is what you would expect of a transformer.

When I float the PS and use the two oscilloscope channels to measure the output, the waveform is quite similar to the first ones I have sent.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline pe1oxp

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #228 on: August 30, 2018, 02:51:30 pm »
Just curious, how do they swap the power supplies? Do you get a 'new' one ore just one out of the poo which is modified?
This because mine are almost 'new in box' and won't get a replacement with a bunch of scratches

I got mine back this week. I got a new unit (I had asked for it - not sure if that's std). Funnily enough, it didn't come with a box at all, it was brought by a Keysight-branded courier as is (they are not joking when telling you to not send any accessories - even the terminal blocks). My wife had no idea what it was and I found it laying on the kitchen table, side handle up  ::)

Thanks for your reply. Will look for another box before I ship the power supply.  So I can keep the original box for calibration of repair.
Hopefully they will ship it back in a box otherwise it can be damaged at the local bookshop before i can pick it up

Keysight picked up my power supply at August 14, no packaging needed, al done by there own courier. Received the new one back yesterday (August 29) in a big carton box brought by GLS.
So it took 2 weeks to swap the power supply including full calibration of the new one (ISO17025)
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #229 on: September 05, 2018, 07:22:37 pm »
I'll do some tests myself when I can. I'm pretty sure these transients are induced into the ground loop between the PSU and the oscilloscope and are not actually present on the outputs.
I finally did some testing. The transients are definitely ground loop related. I also tried a different PSU which has a relay at the output and I get similar spikes when the mains are switched on. All in all I have to conclude that Keysight has fixed the power on spikes on all channels with the hardware modification / newer models  :-+
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 08:39:03 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #230 on: October 06, 2018, 12:39:12 pm »
BTW I found a good use for the 4th output channel. Currently I'm developing a USB powered gadget and the front USB connector is ideal to get 5V from  >:D
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline apblog

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #231 on: October 08, 2018, 02:36:03 am »
BTW I found a good use for the 4th output channel. Currently I'm developing a USB powered gadget and the front USB connector is ideal to get 5V from  >:D

Very creative!  :clap:  I hadn’t even though of using that for power.  Mine gives about 600ma before the voltage starts to sag.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #232 on: October 08, 2018, 06:39:06 pm »
600 mA is not bad, even enough to slowly charge the smartphone.

To Keysight:
Why not add a display option for the USB output details to test USB devices.


There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
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Offline plurn

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Re: E36300 Series Programmable DC Power Supplies (E36311A, E36312A, E36313A)
« Reply #233 on: April 07, 2019, 05:16:35 am »
Have not noticed it mentioned elsewhere yet but I have not really looked extensively. There is an 02 service note for E36312A and E36313A relating to "Compliance to EMC IEC61000-4-3 standard requires a ferrite core":

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/E36312A-02.pdf
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/E36313A-02.pdf

E36311A does not seem to have the same service note as of this time. Perhaps it is not applicable to this unit?
https://servicenotes.literature.keysight.com/litapp/SearchSN.do?method=openExternalSNSearch&prodNum=E36311A

free customer installable kit to address the issue.
 
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Offline Andrew

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Spotted a new IVI driver for this series of power supply which also adds support for new models...

2019-04-30 - 1.5.0.0 - Added SCPIs and model support of E36231A, E36232A, E36233A and E36234A.

The arrival of summer (northern hemisphere) signalling the start of the tech-show season and the prospect of new models. 8)

Add link: https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?ckey=1669314&lc=eng&cc=US
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 09:06:12 am by Andrew »
 

Online JxR

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Spotted a new IVI driver for this series of power supply which also adds support for new models...

2019-04-30 - 1.5.0.0 - Added SCPIs and model support of E36231A, E36232A, E36233A and E36234A.

The arrival of summer (northern hemisphere) signalling the start of the tech-show season and the prospect of new models. 8)

Add link: https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?ckey=1669314&lc=eng&cc=US

Here is the data sheet I found on those if your interested.  I have no info on when they will actually be available.

• E36231A: Autoranging DC Power Supply 30V, 20A, 200W
• E36232A: Autoranging DC Power Supply 60V, 10A, 200W
• E36233A: Dual Output Autoranging DC Power Supply 30V, 20A, 400W
• E36234A: Dual Output Autoranging DC Power Supply 60V, 10A, 400W
 
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Online JxR

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For the owners that went through the repair/replacement process: Are you comfortable enough with the transients when mains is applied to leave a DUT connected now?

I had a DP832 for a few years that I finally got fed up with for that exact issue (large transients when mains was applied).  I'm not willing to deal with something like that anymore.  Also, I would have to put a switch between the unit and the mains due to the power draw in standby(off).

They are building a lot of new homes around me, and since that started, its not too uncommon for minor power interruptions now and again.  A couple things died connected to the DP832 during one of those quick power interruptions.  Anyways, just wanted to make sure everyone is happy and comfortable with the unit now.  I also may end up holding out for one of the higher power units, but I'm expecting them to be similar in operation. 

Thanks.
 

Online blueskull

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I had a DP832 for a few years that I finally got fed up with for that exact issue (large transients when mains was applied).  I'm not willing to deal with something like that anymore.  Also, I would have to put a switch between the unit and the mains due to the power draw in standby(off).

The very reason I explained in my PSU thread, and why I ended up with E36313A.

I didn't keep it for long, though, as I don't need the power, and I have a very tight benchtop space, so I ended up with a PXI-based SMU.

But for a standalone unit, I highly recommend E36313A.
 
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Online rsjsouza

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For the owners that went through the repair/replacement process: Are you comfortable enough with the transients when mains is applied to leave a DUT connected now?
It is not an issue for me. Earlier in this thread there are some waveforms that were gathered before and after the repair.

Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Online nctnico

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For the owners that went through the repair/replacement process: Are you comfortable enough with the transients when mains is applied to leave a DUT connected now?
The power-up transients are completely gone after the fix.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online JxR

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Thanks everyone for confirming that the mains power issue has been put to rest.

I didn't keep it for long, though, as I don't need the power, and I have a very tight benchtop space, so I ended up with a PXI-based SMU.
But for a standalone unit, I highly recommend E36313A.

Thanks for the recommendation.  I love your PXI setup, it looks great!  I find myself dragging equipment back and forth to my university, so a single box with that much functionality would be incredible.  Maybe one day...
 

Offline apblog

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I have one that was sent back and repaired by the dealer shortly before I bought it.  It's fine.

If you hook up a scope and power it on, you might a small/short transient, but we're talking about nanoseconds and a volt or two.  Some people here figured out that it the post-fix transient we were seeing was being conducted through the AC and (at least mostly) wasn't real.  I buy that explanation.

I am very comfortable leaving my expensive prototypes hooked up to this supply.   

It does draw current when turned off though.  I keep mine on a power strip.
 
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Online rsjsouza

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It does draw current when turned off though.  I keep mine on a power strip.
Yes, one of the remaining biggest annoyances to me is the backlight that never seems to be turned off (something also confirmed by another user early on this thread as well).

I initially thought that was the illumination of the standby LED, but the light is too uniform and different in color.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 08:35:26 pm by rsjsouza »
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online blueskull

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It does draw current when turned off though.  I keep mine on a power strip.
Yes, one of the remaining biggest annoyances to me is the backlight that never seems to be turned off (something also confirmed by another user early on this thread as well).

I inotially thought that was the illumination of the standby LED, but the light is too uniform and different in color.

Backlight and fan never turn off. Confirmed.
 

Online bitseeker

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Who designs these things? >:D
I TEA.
 

Offline apblog

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Who designs these things? >:D

I have wondered if the embedded portions of this supply were designed by inexperienced engineers.

The fact that you can't press two channel buttons at once, to simultaneously turn on or off multiple channels, is somewhat annoying. 

And when you press two buttons at once, the unit still beeps.

Clearly the beeper is tied to the physical button press and is not an actual acknowledgement of something happening, as it should be.

The multi-press thing is either poor programming or the front panel keyboard is just a resistor for each button, all being sensed by the same a/d line.

And the initial, now fixed, problems with encoder data entry were really beneath a company like Keysight.

On the whole though, I am very happy with this supply.
 

Offline apblog

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But while I'm complaining, let's not forget about the logging features.

The logging stops when you fill up the small memory buffer; you can't just stream your log to a file on the USB stick.

And it would be immensely useful to show the chart of voltage/current data at all times, so you can just glance at it while testing your firmware or when there has been some kind of failure.  But the chart stops when the log stops.

What would really great is if it logged to a circular buffer, and you could press a button that would dump the last X seconds to an incrementally numbered file on a usb stick.

The above  features are just firmware changes.  And they would add a ton of value to the unit.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 01:01:12 am by apblog »
 

Online bitseeker

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What would really great is if it logged to a circular buffer, and you could press a button that would dump the last X seconds to an incrementally numbered file on a usb stick.

I like that idea. :-+
I TEA.
 

Online JxR

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I think my dream power supply is a collaboration by Keysight, Keithley, and R&S. With all of the best from each company and none of their individual shortcomings.

Keithley: metering, graphing, logging, and measurement tools
Keysight: electronic parallel and serial, low noise, desktop software, support structure
R&S: hard-off power button, front panel sense, identical rails, web based control

Sure there is a ton of things I'm leaving out in my list.  Hopefully the new models Keysight has coming out will bring some additional firmware enhancements that all the models can benefit from.
 

Online nctnico

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Who designs these things? >:D
The fact that you can't press two channel buttons at once, to simultaneously turn on or off multiple channels, is somewhat annoying. 
There is a all channels on/off button and IIRC you can program this to switch on/off a combination of channels.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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