East Tester ET4410&ET4510 Desktop LCR Meter

[Martin72]

Hi Martin, can you please measure the 0.1% resistors 1K, 10K and 100K in normal mode at 1KHz 1V?

Done....

[Martin72]

Hi egonotto,

This 1mH value from the reference was not achieved by any of the devices I tested with it, not even with the ET3503 and the ST2830, so I assume it was a measurement error during calibration.
I will clarify this soon.

Today at work with the calibrated ST2830 measured, the value in the protocol must be wrong.
I will do another measurement in the next few days that will definitively confirm this.

[ton4eff]

... I wrote to East Tester for my out of calibration problem for the resistors by the way... We'll see what they have to say about it...

As I expected, I only lost my time and nerves with them. They said to contact supplier to "repair" it. Who said that I should contact the manufacturer.  Well, it's a cheap chinese LCR meter after all, don't expect premium service. The moral of this story is: Check every single function in all available ranges right after buying the unit. Wait, but you need a better LCR meter to do it, or maybe at least the same to compare it... 

[Martin72]

Today was probably “customer service” day at East Tester, because I had also received a reply - and I wasn't expecting any other answer than this.
I wanted to know if there was some kind of manual for the internal calibration.
The first answer was no, there isn't.
Hard to imagine, so I asked again.
Then came the reply that this calibration is only done internally at East Tester.
I didn't give up and argued that it would be quite expensive to send the device to China if a calibration were due.
The answer was that I should contact the seller in such a case....
Copying like the world champions, but not wanting to give anything away themselves...

Anyway, it was worth a try.
I'm still under the impression that I read something about calibration somewhere, at East Tester.
Maybe I'll find it again.

[Martin72]

Ah, that wasn't a calibration guide, that was the performance verification test in the ET3500 manual.
The references to be used are listed there.
If you buy them, especially the capacitors and inductors, you can also get something other than an East Tester LCR...
Nevertheless, here is a link to the ET3500 manual, in the later chapters there is some generally interesting stuff in it.

https://www.easttester-cn.com/uploads/ET35-SERIES-BENCHTOP-HIGH-FREQUENCY-LCRMETER-LCR-BRIDGE-USER-MANUAL.pdf

[mawyatt]

Ah, that wasn't a calibration guide, that was the performance verification test in the ET3500 manual.
The references to be used are listed there.
If you buy them, especially the capacitors and inductors, you can also get something other than an East Tester LCR...
Nevertheless, here is a link to the ET3500 manual, in the later chapters there is some generally interesting stuff in it.

https://www.easttester-cn.com/uploads/ET35-SERIES-BENCHTOP-HIGH-FREQUENCY-LCRMETER-LCR-BRIDGE-USER-MANUAL.pdf

The 0.02% Resistors probably aren't too expensive (Vishay $20~30 each), but the 0.02% capacitors are likely very expensive and the 0.02% inductors probably more than an LCR Meter!!

Best

[jheissjr]

The East Tester multimeters have a calibration procedure in the user manual. Is it possibility the LCR meters use two keys to enter calibration like the multimeters?

[ton4eff]

The main problem in my case are not the precise resistors, since the deviation is significant. I couldn't make the unit to save the new calibration values at all... It simply returns to the original state. Also there is a step in the calibration method where it says to put a mysterious "standard" inductor. Or at least Google translates it this way from Chinese. Maybe it needs all calibration steps to be passed in order to save the new data? Who knows... I don't have a "standard" inductor and I don't know where I could get one...

[Martin72]

The 0.02% Resistors probably aren't too expensive (Vishay $20~30 each), but the 0.02% capacitors are likely very expensive and the 0.02% inductors probably more than an LCR Meter!!

I didn't say anything else about it.

@ton4eff:
The term “standard” refers to the benchmark that can be used as a guide.
A “reference”, for example, can have the same properties as the test specimen; the reference is used for comparison.
This here for example is called a "standard" :
https://www.ietlabs.com/1482.html

[ton4eff]

I understand, but it doesn't say what value standard inductor. It just says standard inductor in the calibration menu.

[Martin72]

There will be several, as described in the ET35 manual, which also makes sense.
Just one value would be insufficient for a calibration.
In the meantime, I looked around a bit on the second-hand market. Standard capacitors can be bought quite cheaply as decade capacitors with 0.05% accuracy.
I am seriously considering getting one.
Standard inductors, on the other hand, are rather rare to find and quite expensive on top of that.

A possible alternative would be the test board from user Kung Fu Josh.
Measuring this with an LCR meter with a higher level of accuracy than the ET4410 would be better than having nothing to calibrate with.

[Houseman]

Hi forum, good sunday all together.
Same here, have a ET4401 with FW v6.00.2136.018 (Board is ET44.M.V.16 revision 2021.11.18) and would also like to magically turn it into ET4410 or even better 4510... Maybe this can be interesting for someone that had the same problem for me.
Waiting for EastTest reply for a new firmware, and after fiddling around for the whole rainy sunday, I only managed to upgrade the FW (gently provided by Martin) via directly TTL connecting to the DB flat cable connector JP1 ( the output pin 11 for TX and 12 for RX of the SP3232 chip U3) with some jumper wires to a TTL to USB converter.
Please see photo attached:

Looking exactly at the photo, UPPER row first pin of the connector is empty, then pin 3 is TX pin 5 is RX, pin 7 is GND.  This goes directly to the RX, TX and GND of the TTL board.
The other USB-RS232 adapter I had lying around couldn't simply connect to the program putting the nag screen that maybe says "Serial Port not found"
So after a 450seconds upgrade the FW was finally updated, instrument automatically rebooted and voilà..
ET4401 turned into.... ET4401!!      .

After reading 22 forum pages I still am not able to understand if someone has managed to hackgrade to the 4410 or even better 4510 version.
Could anyone point this out?
Best regards and thanks.

[Martin72]

Hi,
No, no one has ever managed that yet.
I'm not sure whether it's really worth doing, except for the satisfaction of knowing that it's possible, because then it's very likely that the calibration data will no longer be accurate and the device will need to be recalibrated accordingly.

[ton4eff]

... and the device will need to be recalibrated accordingly.

Which is also not possible at this moment with this device. 

[Martin72]

We don't really know.
To do that, you would need to a) understand Chinese better and b) go through the complete calibration process with all the necessary measuring equipment.
I can't imagine that you can only calibrate a part.

[ton4eff]

We don't really know.
To do that, you would need to a) understand Chinese better and b) go through the complete calibration process with all the necessary measuring equipment.
I can't imagine that you can only calibrate a part.

Which actually means that it's not possible for an average hobbyist, who actually is the only target buyer for a device like this... I would never buy it if I knew that there is no a proper calibration procedure for this one. Who would put a "standard inductor - with unknown value!!!" as a step in the "calibration" procedure, which is actually never been documented anywhere. I'm planning to put and try a whatever value inductor in this step and I bet that nothing will happen. I will also try random resistors, instead of the weird values ones in the hidden menu. For it's existence by the way I had to learn thanks to this forum. 

[Martin72]

Which actually means that it's not possible for an average hobbyist, who actually is the only target buyer for a device like this...

This is also not possible with devices that are not intended for hobbyists in terms of price.
That makes sense when you think about it.
If you have a device with a basic accuracy of 0.1%, then the calibration means must be significantly lower.
That means the capacitors and the inductors as well.
These standards are so expensive that only the manufacturer and possibly calibration laboratories have them.
Nobody would think of buying them, neither hobbyists nor companies.
Therefore:

I would never buy it if I knew that there is no a proper calibration procedure for this one.

This basic calibration is the responsibility of the manufacturer; the user is not required to perform it. The user can calibrate the cable length, but nothing more.
You won't find this in any other LCR model, even in very expensive ones, because it is not the customer's responsibility and to ensure that the device can meet its specifications.
It is pure coincidence that we know how to access the internal calibration menu of the ET44.
I do not blame East Tester for this, it is not something we as end customers should do.

[ton4eff]

Well, I (we) saw the answer from the manufacturer and the supplyer about the calibration (fault?) issue with my device. 
So, you're telling us that if I send this device to a calibration laboratory they will bother with this one???  And they will have the proper calibration procedure for it???     

[Houseman]

Martin, hello, I am intended to go inside the rabbit hole of the bootloader process sniffing. Which tool have you used to extract it? the one provided by Nations: NS-LINK-Pro? or whatever?
Reading through the post I had the same idea of some R0 matrix to select between the models. I cannot imagine that in their huge production line the people can make difference between a board that has no signs of difference between 6 types of models...
Also the FW that can be upgraded is the one lying on the Front panel PCB. Does anyone have sniffed around the other N32 lying on the mainboard?
I know you have swapped the two units, but has anyone monitored what happens in connection between the two boards?
Best regards
Houseman

[indman]

Well, I (we) saw the answer from the manufacturer and the supplyer about the calibration (fault?) issue with my device. 

Buying goods on Aliexpress you are definitely playing the lottery and should understand the risks involved.Unfortunately, you were unlucky this time. 

[ton4eff]

Well, I (we) saw the answer from the manufacturer and the supplyer about the calibration (fault?) issue with my device. 

Buying goods on Aliexpress you are definitely playing the lottery and should understand the risks involved.Unfortunately, you were unlucky this time. 

Of course, I don't have problem with that. I just wanted to be clear that we don't have a proper, proved to work calibration procedure for this unit at this moment... Leaving apart the need of weird resistor values + unknown value inductor in the hidden "calibration" menu+ the need of a proper translator from Chinese...

[Martin72]

Once again, for the last time for me :
This type of calibration is not intended for end users to perform themselves.
This is because end users usually have neither the means nor the knowledge to perform it correctly.
That's why this calibration routine is also “hidden” because you could do more harm than good.
I see it like indman, unfortunately you had bad luck this time in the “lottery”.
And if you are not willing to get in touch with the seller and tell them that the device needs a calibration and that you want to return it because of that, then you have had bad luck again.
GwInstek, TongHui, Hioki, R&S, BK Precision, etc... All LCR manufacturers have these internal calibration routines in their devices, and they wouldn't tell you how to work through them either.
They might tell calibration laboratories, because they have the means to calibrate, but usually you have to send the device in.
Therefore, at least I cannot reproach East Tester, because they behave like everyone else in this case.
You still have a warranty on the device, use it.
Write to the seller. I bought the device from you, it is still under warranty, so either make it right or send me a new one.
Done.

[Martin72]

Martin, hello, I am intended to go inside the rabbit hole of the bootloader process sniffing. Which tool have you used to extract it? the one provided by Nations: NS-LINK-Pro? or whatever?

Hi Houseman,
I used the Segger J-Link Mini EDU for this, along with an adapter board and a 4-pin connector from Amazon.
I read the part in the memory block using the J-Link software , or more precisely the J-Link Commander(included).

Does anyone have sniffed around the other N32 lying on the mainboard?
I know you have swapped the two units, but has anyone monitored what happens in connection between the two boards?

I have not done that yet.
I assume that the two chips “talk” to each other serially.
The chip on the mainboard will “only” pass on the measurement results that were previously processed by it, because external D/A or A/D converters are not present on the mainboard, but in the chip.
Since nothing had changed “back then” due to the front panel replacement, i.e. the mainboard has nothing to do with the respective model, I didn't pay any further attention to the chip on the mainboard.

[ton4eff]

Once again, for the last time for me :
...
I see it like indman, unfortunately you had bad luck this time in the “lottery”.
And if you are not willing to get in touch with the seller and tell them that the device needs a calibration and that you want to return it because of that, then you have had bad luck again.
GwInstek, TongHui, Hioki, R&S, BK Precision, etc... All LCR manufacturers have these internal calibration routines in their devices, and they wouldn't tell you how to work through them either.
They might tell calibration laboratories, because they have the means to calibrate, but usually you have to send the device in.
Therefore, at least I cannot reproach East Tester, because they behave like everyone else in this case.
You still have a warranty on the device, use it.
Write to the seller. I bought the device from you, it is still under warranty, so either make it right or send me a new one.
Done.

But I did contact them, as I wrote a few posts above, they never gave me an option to return it... I would consider it of course...
So I placed a new order, so wish me luck this time please. From AliExpress again, I don't have other options here in BG unfortunately... By the way there is $20 coupon available now, I hope it will not be burned if the new tester is faulty again. Of course I WILL TEST ANY AVAILABLE RANGE PROPERLY this time upon receiving the unit... Three times at least! 

Edit: Added a picture of the order.

[indman]

So I placed a new order, so wish me luck this time please.

Then I wish you luck, but I advise you remember to make a video of how you open the parcel and also conduct tests video. This will be excellent evidence if you need to open a dispute with the seller.