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| East Tester ET4410 ESR Measure |
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| mawyatt:
--- Quote from: The Electrician on July 26, 2022, 08:24:11 pm --- One of the things I like about the Hioki meters is their ability to display 4 parameters at once. Try setting yours to match how I did it in reply #20. Then choose the "set" mode, followed by "freq". This allows you to quickly switch frequencies and watch the effect on all those parameters. The polystyrene cap I used has its minimum D around 1 kHz; the Q is way over 10000, so the indication is "Disp out". The capacitance value has 6 stable digits, but ESR has only 1 stable digit--all the less significant digits are bobbling like crazy if the speed is set to "slow". This "bobbling" of the less significant digits is a clear indication that the reading is down in the noise because that is what bobbling digits are--noise. The most stable and accurate readings can be obtained if the speed is set to "slow2", and the level is set to "5V". Also setting averaging to 256 helps a lot for accuracy. Without averaging, I get 1 stable digit for the ESR of the polystyrene capacitor, if I average for 256 times, I now have 3 stable digits. --- End quote --- This is generally pretty much how we have the IM3536 setup with Cs, Rs, D and Q for capacitors, but with 16 averages (trying to keep the IM3536 and TH2830 similar in settings). Haven't tried 256 averages yet tho. Really like the IM3536 but also miss the ability to have a display that shows a frequency sweep on the instrument. Not a fan of having to hang a laptop off everything to "see" decent plots, and since we are dominantly Mac based, much of the support software is not Mac compatible!! These polystyrene caps are generally really high "Q" types, wonder why they are not more popular now (know about the temperature limit), recall they were more popular back a few decades ago. Best, |
| The Electrician:
--- Quote from: Martin72 on July 26, 2022, 07:30:04 pm ---I think you know how it´s meant. ;) @mawyatt: Interesting that even the hioki won´t be "flawless". The Tonghui is the same LCR like the ST2830 we got. I must read the ST manual again, also the one of the keysight - But i´m pretty sure that there are no remarks in it about the limitation of the ESR (Rs) measure. Same on the ET4410 and of course DE5000. So the conclusion could be that we can´t expect proper ESR/Q readings for every cap-type on the "cheapos" up to the costs of a TH/ST LCR...Hmm. --- End quote --- On page 18 of the manual: https://www.easttester-cn.com/uploads/ET44-Benchtop-LCR-METER-for-Component-Measurement-User-Manual.pdf are the adjustments for ESR (R) measurement when the Q of the capacitor is taken into account. |
| The Electrician:
--- Quote from: mawyatt on July 26, 2022, 09:03:56 pm --- --- Quote from: The Electrician on July 26, 2022, 08:24:11 pm --- One of the things I like about the Hioki meters is their ability to display 4 parameters at once. Try setting yours to match how I did it in reply #20. Then choose the "set" mode, followed by "freq". This allows you to quickly switch frequencies and watch the effect on all those parameters. The polystyrene cap I used has its minimum D around 1 kHz; the Q is way over 10000, so the indication is "Disp out". The capacitance value has 6 stable digits, but ESR has only 1 stable digit--all the less significant digits are bobbling like crazy if the speed is set to "slow". This "bobbling" of the less significant digits is a clear indication that the reading is down in the noise because that is what bobbling digits are--noise. The most stable and accurate readings can be obtained if the speed is set to "slow2", and the level is set to "5V". Also setting averaging to 256 helps a lot for accuracy. Without averaging, I get 1 stable digit for the ESR of the polystyrene capacitor, if I average for 256 times, I now have 3 stable digits. --- End quote --- This is generally pretty much how we have the IM3536 setup with Cs, Rs, D and Q for capacitors, but with 16 averages (trying to keep the IM3536 and TH2830 similar in settings). Haven't tried 256 averages yet tho. Really like the IM3536 but also miss the ability to have a display that shows a frequency sweep on the instrument. Not a fan of having to hang a laptop off everything to "see" decent plots, and since we are dominantly Mac based, much of the support software is not Mac compatible!! These polystyrene caps are generally really high "Q" types, wonder why they are not more popular now (know about the temperature limit), recall they were more popular back a few decades ago. Best, --- End quote --- The IM3570 only costs $5000 more. :-+ Have a look at this thread of mine from a while ago when the IM3570 was new to me. I should have titled it "Fun with a Hioki IM3570". https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/capacitor-measurements-on-an-impedance-analyzer/msg178362/#msg178362 |
| The Electrician:
--- Quote from: mawyatt on July 26, 2022, 09:03:56 pm --- These polystyrene caps are generally really high "Q" types, wonder why they are not more popular now (know about the temperature limit), recall they were more popular back a few decades ago. Best, --- End quote --- I think the manufacturers of the polystyrene film decided it wasn't worth it to keep manufacturing. I remember when the only manufacturer of polycarbonate film also decided to get out of that business. I still have an assortment of stacked film polycarbonate caps made by Siemens that the rep gave me years ago. Those were good caps for their time with respect to ripple current capability. |
| Martin72:
Well... --- Quote ---The IM3570 only costs $5000 more. --- End quote --- High quality equipment has its justification, to say the least. ;) |
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